A guide for guidance: how to choose your doctrine

[darkbeaver]

This sounds like some poetry without certain truth.
Better than that, I say: we are not any gods. Our reason and thinking is never superior to God. The religion of God will not stand between you and God, but it leads you to God's good pleasure.

So is your path wide enough to pass out on without worry?
While the prophets and apostles are the most God-fearing, and you are without any worry? Have you guaranteed the outcome in the afterlife?:-(

http://www.quran-ayat.com/

What true man of god needs priest or imam or rabbi or fur covered cave dwelling witch doctor? A book a Mosque or Temple are all idols as solid as stone and as tainted by man as any sword or spear. Only god can guarantee my outcome living or dead. I am without worry. I am full of love for god and my fellow men. You are gods appendage are you not? We are made in his image of his design, we are one with god and nothing without. It is sacreligious even to imagine to define god. Defilement by words and numbers.

 

[eanassir]

I will disagree just because I'm disagreeable.;-)

We are made of the universe.

Everything is made from everything, therefore god is everything.


There is a purpose to life and that is worship, of God, the universe, and life. This worship is nothing less than the appreciation of the strengh of an egg the beauty of flowers or a cloud. The big picture really does care about you, every perspective is gold to it that's got no eyes but sees through steel. We are to report witness revel in experience and kiss for her that's got no lips, we are gods reflection an image that gives god purpose. God can easily afford omnipetent infinite interest in her lowest creation.

There is nothing new under the sun, we spend our days in recreation. All that is always was, and all that was will be again. Do we build reality or do we build delusions about reality?

I haven't really disagreed at all, just shared my own delusions.:lol:

This is an obvious error and misguidance; I tell you the truth.

Did any prophet or apostle tell you that? Or were the apostles liars and false, except Spinoza?

Everything in the universe is created by God Almighty.
While God is not any material thing.
Everything in the universe is created, has a life of some determined time, then will die and disintegrate; except God the All-Living and Eternal.
The universe is blind, dumb and have no intelligence, but God is Most Wise and All-Knowing, and hears the supplication of the afflicted and answers the prayer of the one in distress, and is pleased with the righteous work; and God Most Gracious knows the conscience of man, and answers the prayer of one in obligation and necessity, when such man prays God. While the universe cannot do any of that.

 

[AnnaG]

My words in blue.

Quoting darkbeaver You can't choose your doctrine unless you assemble it yourself.

True.

Nuts. I choose to believe tomatoes are edible. And I found out because someone else told me. Eanassir didn't develop Islam so he is using someone else's doctrine. Christians follow someone else's doctrine.

That's hardly likely to be Gods.

No, it can't be unless by God's leave or permission: so that none my believe unless by God's guidance.

lol Gods miss a lotta people then.

If you choose some redimade doctrine it still isn't yours.

Not necessarily, but you have to believe by reason and thinking. E.g. Prophet Joseph called the prisoners with him in his prison, to follow the religion of his fathers: Jacob, Isaac and Abraham: the devotion to God alone.

Right, you can adopt someone else's doctrine and make it your own.

There's no way to God except that God falls on your head.

God may guide whomever He please and misguide whom He like to misguide.

As in the Quran 6: 125

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلإِسْلاَمِ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاء كَذَلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ​

The explanation:
(Whomsoever God desires to guide, He makes him rejoice in [accepting] the Islam; ​

whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes him dejected [accepting not the invitation to the Islam], and embarrassed, as if he were engaged in ascending in the sky; ​

so God lays 'abomination illness' on those who believe not.​

This is the [standard] way of your Lord [O Mohammed], leading straight; ​

We have detailed the revelations [of the Quran] for a people who receive admonition.)​

I'm not going to wear any hard hat. Not holding my breathe waiting for some god or other to fall on my head either.​

God summons you.
True.

Gods summon you, or not.

You do not ever summon God.
You may pray God and call Him to save you and answer your prayer.

Yup. One can pray all they like. Good luck being paid any attention or even heard, though.

You are either open to the realities of God and may prosper accordingly or you are closed against God and wallow in the conceit of man for ever after.

May be true.

Not true. There's also that you don't care about gods because they are irrelevant and aren't even remotely interested in humans.

If you can't become aware of the governor of the universe this time arround then you'll simply have to repeat the exercise and fullfil your purpose next year.
??

Eanassir, darkbeaver believes in reincarnation.

God is very big so he's very hard to see.
He is All-Seeing; nothing can be hidden from Him.

The non-existant, the irrelevant, and the invisible look a lot alike.

 

[AnnaG]

I will disagree just because I'm disagreeable.;-)



This is an obvious error and misguidance; I tell you the truth.

Nope. Just your opinion.

Did any prophet or apostle tell you that? Or were the apostles liars and false, except Spinoza?

Everything in the universe is created by God Almighty.
While God is not any material thing.
Everything in the universe is created, has a life of some determined time, then will die and disintegrate; except God the All-Living and Eternal.
The universe is blind, dumb and have no intelligence, but God is Most Wise and All-Knowing, and hears the supplication of the afflicted and answers the prayer of the one in distress, and is pleased with the righteous work; and God Most Gracious knows the conscience of man, and answers the prayer of one in obligation and necessity, when such man prays God. While the universe cannot do any of that.

Like I said, just opinion.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

I will disagree just because I'm disagreeable.;-)



This is an obvious error and misguidance; I tell you the truth.

Did any prophet or apostle tell you that? Or were the apostles liars and false, except Spinoza?

Everything in the universe is created by God Almighty.
While God is not any material thing.
Everything in the universe is created, has a life of some determined time, then will die and disintegrate; except God the All-Living and Eternal.
The universe is blind, dumb and have no intelligence, but God is Most Wise and All-Knowing, and hears the supplication of the afflicted and answers the prayer of the one in distress, and is pleased with the righteous work; and God Most Gracious knows the conscience of man, and answers the prayer of one in obligation and necessity, when such man prays God. While the universe cannot do any of that.

PROOVE IT>

 

[Downhome_Woman]

ACTUALLY< Sir Francis Bacon, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."
Isaac Newton, "In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."
Albert Einstein, "The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Ok - and Gregor Mendel- the 'genetics abbot'? I studied him in high school. the man began his research before Darwin published. He had no problem with believing in God and science at the same time.

 

[Cliffy]

I really don't get the concept that if you don't believe in religion you don't believe in god. And if you don't believe in my religion you are royally screwed. God is a concept, a thought in our heads that says there is symmetry in the universe so someone or something must have caused it to come into being. Every person has their own concept or belief about what that is and how it affects their life, or not, so why are there those that think they have the only truth, the only way, the only truth.

Sorry folks, but it just doesn't work that way because in the end, it is all about you, what you believe and how you deal with that belief, or not. There is no judgment of what you think or how you act except your own (in regards to god or goddesses). If you believe you deserve to go to hell for something you did, you will probably live in hell (in your head and heart) for the rest of your life, which will feel like an eternity.

Eanassir, like I said before, you can repeat that nonsense about god without associate all you want, but it means nothing to anybody but you. Everybody else has their own ways and beliefs about god/desses. Repeating yourself ad nausium isn't going to change anybodies mind, no matter how many times you tell them they are wrong, because to them, you are.

 

[JLM]

I really don't get the concept that if you don't believe in religion you don't believe in god. And if you don't believe in my religion you are royally screwed. God is a concept, a thought in our heads that says there is symmetry in the universe so someone or something must have caused it to come into being. Every person has their own concept or belief about what that is and how it affects their life, or not, so why are there those that think they have the only truth, the only way, the only truth.

Sorry folks, but it just doesn't work that way because in the end, it is all about you, what you believe and how you deal with that belief, or not. There is no judgment of what you think or how you act except your own (in regards to god or goddesses). If you believe you deserve to go to hell for something you did, you will probably live in hell (in your head and heart) for the rest of your life, which will feel like an eternity.

Eanassir, like I said before, you can repeat that nonsense about god without associate all you want, but it means nothing to anybody but you. Everybody else has their own ways and beliefs about god/desses. Repeating yourself ad nausium isn't going to change anybodies mind, no matter how many times you tell them they are wrong, because to them, you are.

It's a deep subject, Cliff, but you make some good points. Got to thinking today about these suicide bombers of whom the majority appear (to me) to be of the Islam faith, but surely Islam can't really be sanctioning this activity and yet there are thousands who are so strongly brain washed to perpetrate it. What's the answer to that? As far as I'm concerned there is a higher power, but lately I've been wondering if the higher power is within oneself (almost like a self fulfilling prophecy), but then that seems to be rather selfish thinking. Come on Cliff, help me out here.

 

[talloola]

Eanassir, like I said before, you can repeat that nonsense about god without associate all you want, but it means nothing to anybody but you. Everybody else has their own ways and beliefs about god/desses. Repeating yourself ad nausium isn't going to change anybodies mind, no matter how many times you tell them they are wrong, because to them, you are.

Absolutely right, if one doesn't finally 'get it' and
realize that he/she is beating a dead horse, and keeps
on and on, with no sense of the fact that others have
the right, and should be respected for their own inidividual
choices of deciding, in 'their own' minds, what is good for
them, and what makes them happy in regards to gods or no
gods,
THEN
they are stuck within their own trap, and cannot seem to
relate to the rest of humanity, and understand that we
are not 'all' the same, but deserve to have our own 'space',
on earth to decide for ourselves what is best for us,
without constant bantering and badgering and preaching
that we do not want.

 

[Cliffy]

It's a deep subject, Cliff, but you make some good points. Got to thinking today about these suicide bombers of whom the majority appear (to me) to be of the Islam faith, but surely Islam can't really be sanctioning this activity and yet there are thousands who are so strongly brain washed to perpetrate it. What's the answer to that? As far as I'm concerned there is a higher power, but lately I've been wondering if the higher power is within oneself (almost like a self fulfilling prophecy), but then that seems to be rather selfish thinking. Come on Cliff, help me out here.

If you look at books like the bible or even the koran as metaphors for your personal life, the image begins to emerge that you are god, capable of dying to your old self and being reborn to your higher self. We are always emerging, evolving and redefining ourselves. "Do unto others..." When we understand that everybody is our brother/sister, that we are all inter-connected, inter-dependent, we begin to understand that their is no separation.

Part of each and every one of us is connected to the source, the craetive energy that caused all this to come into being. As part of that flow of energy, we become gods, the masters of our destiny. If we are not in the flow, we are victims of circumstances that seem out of our control.

Religion separates us from that flow, creates an image of god that is separate from us, that judges us. But it simply is not true, but people who believe it, who follow someone else, are easy to manipulate and those who play the control game know this. The irony is that only those who are not in the flow play the power and control game. They really have nothing to offer anybody. They only take.

 

[eanassir]

What true man of god needs priest or imam or rabbi or fur covered cave dwelling witch doctor?

Here there is mixing of things and ideas: false and true.
My words in blue.

A book a Mosque or Temple are all idols as solid as stone and as tainted by man as any sword or spear.

Not necessarily; if the book is that of God and issues from God, then the thing is different: yes, the Book is estimated valuable and incumbent as a must.

Is it you that invent a religion according to your desire, or is it God that sends His envoys to teach and instruct and warn man to worship Him alone and work according to His program not to their traditions?

Only god can guarantee my outcome living or dead.
True.

I am without worry. I am full of love for god and my fellow men.
You deceive yourself here.

You are gods appendage are you not?
I should be God's servant: obedient, but the truth about this is up to God alone to say this one is righteous or not.

We are made in his image of his design, we are one with god and nothing without.

It is this notion in the Torah of Ezra which made all this confusion.
No, we are not made in His image; nothing is like God in any way. We are not one with God: He is the Creator not material, and we are the created, material and mortal.

It is sacreligious even to imagine to define god. Defilement by words and numbers.

True.

 

[eanassir]

PROOVE IT>

Prove what?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It's a deep subject, Cliff, but you make some good points. Got to thinking today about these suicide bombers of whom the majority appear (to me) to be of the Islam faith, but surely Islam can't really be sanctioning this activity and yet there are thousands who are so strongly brain washed to perpetrate it.

But Islam does support such nasty activities; it calls for death to infidels. So does Christianity, it also says some nasty things about non believers, about witches, about homosexuals etc.

The problem does not lie so much with Islam, as it does with Muslims. Most Christians are sensible enough not to take some of the nastier edicts of the Bible seriously or literally (e.g., thou shalt not suffer a witch to live). They either ignore them completely or put a benign interpretation on them.

However, there is a significant minority of Muslims who take everything said in Koran literally. So if Islam say kill the infidels, why, the infidels must be killed.

Many religious texts say nasty things about non believers. The religion is usually judged by how its followers interpret (or ignore) the nastier commands by the Prophet, Messiah, Holy Book etc.

Since the Reformation, the Enlightenment, most Christians do not take the Bible literally (even those who claim to take it literally, don't). The problem is that many Muslims take Koran literally.

 

[wulfie68]

The problem does not lie so much with Islam, as it does with Muslims. Most Christians are sensible enough not to take some of the nastier edicts of the Bible seriously or literally (e.g., thou shalt not suffer a witch to live). They either ignore them completely or put a benign interpretation on them.

Thats not entirely accurate either. The "significant minority" of Muslims you accuse (fundamentalists) are not really any worse than their fundamentalist Christian brethren. Its not a difference of faith but of socioeconomic factors: in many of the Islamic countries, the standard of life is much lower, as are life expectancies. Fundamentalist Christians in places like Canada and the US generally have more to lose and this self interest governs their actions. It doesn't entirely stop them however, as seen in the attacks on people like abortion performing physicians.

 

[JLM]

Muslims are Islam, they are just a bastardized version.

 

[darkbeaver]

However, there is a significant minority of Muslims who take everything said in Koran literally. So if Islam say kill the infidels, why, the infidels must be killed.

There is a significant majority of the American Airforce who are fanatical christians. These you should worry about. Many christians are illiterate savages bent on armageddon and rapture.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Thats not entirely accurate either. The "significant minority" of Muslims you accuse (fundamentalists) are not really any worse than their fundamentalist Christian brethren. Its not a difference of faith but of socioeconomic factors: in many of the Islamic countries, the standard of life is much lower, as are life expectancies. Fundamentalist Christians in places like Canada and the US generally have more to lose and this self interest governs their actions. It doesn't entirely stop them however, as seen in the attacks on people like abortion performing physicians.

Whatever the reason Wulfie, it may well be due to socio economic factors. But the fact is, even Fundamentalist Christians do not take Bible literally. They do not want to kill the witches as Bible mandates (Exodus), they will be happy by simply banning witchcraft. They do not want to kill homosexuals as Bible mandates (Leviticus), they will be happy if they can imprison gays for ten years.

There are very few Christians who take the Bible literally (I think there is a small sect in USA which calls for death to homosexuals). As opposed to that, there is a substantial population of Muslims (I remember seeing the figures of 10%, that makes it 100 million Muslims) who take Koran literally, and are all for killing the infidels, stoning women to death etc.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

Prove what?

oh you are a tedious man. Okay here it is:
Cliffy said:
We are made of the universe.

Everything is made from everything, therefore god is everything.


There is a purpose to life and that is worship, of God, the universe, and life. This worship is nothing less than the appreciation of the strengh of an egg the beauty of flowers or a cloud. The big picture really does care about you, every perspective is gold to it that's got no eyes but sees through steel. We are to report witness revel in experience and kiss for her that's got no lips, we are gods reflection an image that gives god purpose. God can easily afford omnipetent infinite interest in her lowest creation.

There is nothing new under the sun, we spend our days in recreation. All that is always was, and all that was will be again. Do we build reality or do we build delusions about reality?

I haven't really disagreed at all, just shared my own delusions.

And then YOU replied with:
This is an obvious error and misguidance; I tell you the truth.

Did any prophet or apostle tell you that? Or were the apostles liars and false, except Spinoza?

Everything in the universe is created by God Almighty.
While God is not any material thing.
Everything in the universe is created, has a life of some determined time, then will die and disintegrate; except God the All-Living and Eternal.
The universe is blind, dumb and have no intelligence, but God is Most Wise and All-Knowing, and hears the supplication of the afflicted and answers the prayer of the one in distress, and is pleased with the righteous work; and God Most Gracious knows the conscience of man, and answers the prayer of one in obligation and necessity, when such man prays God. While the universe cannot do any of that.


And then I said 'Prove it'. Prove what you said. You told Cliffy, "This is an obvious error and misguidance; I tell you the truth."
Well I see no more error in what he said then I see in yours - no, actually I see less. He had the grace to admit that his was his opinion.You on the other hand are essentially saying that what you say is the truth because - well - you say it is. So, I say to you, prove it. Prove what you say is the truth - don't just copy off bits and bobs from your mentor's writings or the Quran (a questionable document at best), but PROVE it.

 

[AnnaG]

Fundamentalist Christians do not take Bible literally.

There are very few Christians who take the Bible literally

Really? There are none but there are some?

 

[Downhome_Woman]

This sounds like some poetry without certain truth.
Better than that, I say: we are not any gods. Our reason and thinking is never superior to God. The religion of God will not stand between you and God, but it leads you to God's good pleasure.

So is your path wide enough to pass out on without worry?
While the prophets and apostles are the most God-fearing, and you are without any worry? Have you guaranteed the outcome in the afterlife?:-(

http://www.quran-ayat.com/

Do you actually have any words of your own? Or does your particular version of the almighty insist that his humankind have no individual identity? (BORING! - If I were a deity, I'd like to see my creations actually have a spine. I can't think of anything MORE horrible than to create a species and find out they are robots. I mean, the whole 'YES MASTER ... I BE DOING YOUR BIDDING" thing ... why bother? Give me the fussyness of the proto-Israelites! All that angst - shows that life really is a soap opera!