Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

[Colpy]

No doubt eh? It's like herding wild cats.

It's nice to see you finally agree that there never was an Israel up until 1947.

Next we'll teach you all about Prop 242 then we can move on to the rule of law and the circumstances involved with a genocide.

Ahh...first perhaps you need a course in Reading Comprehension....I did not say (nor do I think) that Israel did not exist before 1947. And yes, the Bible is considered a valuable historical document. As are most other religious texts, mythologies, oral traditions....etc...just ask Heinrich Schliemann.

Which genocide would you be speaking of????

The genocide of Armenians by Turks in World War I?

Ukrainians by Russians in the 30s?

Jews by Germans (and others) from 1941-45?

or Tutsuis by Hutus.......or Cambodians by other Cambodians.......or Kurds by Saddam Hussein......or the swamp dwelling Shi'ite Muslims by Saddam as well??

Or some product of your imagination?

 

[petros]

You've missed a few. Is that on purpose Tippy?

 

[Colpy]

You've missed a few. Is that on purpose Tippy?

Yeah, I probably did.......would you care to enlighten me on the specific ones you are refering to?

 

[petros]

Are you 10 years old or what?

So still no tangible documentation of an early AD exile?

If there was an exile there should be oodles of Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Philistine, Persian, Mesopotamian and obviously Hebrew documentation of over hundreds of thousands of people going somewhere.

If you are going to claim to be an educated historian you better start walking the walk and strut your stuff because you asinine pathetic questions are proving you very well may be the idiot everyone assumes you to be.

 

[ironsides]

It's a Zionist/American dream picked up where the Brits left off right on que and what American bank wouldn't say no to establishing a central bank of a country that's economy is weapons based and run by terrorists? It's a very successful formula. Just look at South America.

Just look at what happens when people like them leave take Zimbabwe for example, for that matter look at South Africa today, they both achieved independence and look what happened, killings and murders are running rampant there. What do you think will happen to the Israeli's if they just gave up?

 

[Goober]

Yuuuuuuuuuup. Anything before November 29, 1947 is purly wishful thinking.

If you want to consider the joke demon wrangler kings of JUDEA or adminstartion of the religion from the temple as a state then those would be a wrong as well.


Please don't confuse the "Land of Israel" with the State of Israel like everyone else wants you to believe.

Right now as it stand Israel is only a predominantly Jewish State until they finish kicking everyone out, blowing up their schools, hospitals, retirement housing, electrical, telecomm, potable and sanitary systems and cutting them off from access to their farmland.

Petros
So then it follows that the lands or Kingdom of Egypt would not have existed - ???

 

[petros]

Just look at what happens when people like them leave take Zimbabwe for example, for that matter look at South Africa today, they both achieved independence and look what happened, killings and murders are running rampant there. What do you think will happen to the Israeli's if they just gave up?

Does Israel have the economic sanctions against it that S. Africa did which completely killed their economy? I've been to J'burg and Kimberly I've seen what it's like and I know why.

 

[darkbeaver]

Are you 10 years old or what?

So still no tangible documentation of an early AD exile?

If there was an exile there should be oodles of Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Philistine, Persian, Mesopotamian and obviously Hebrew documentation of over hundreds of thousands of people going somewhere.

If you are going to claim to be an educated historian you better start walking the walk and strut your stuff because you asinine pathetic questions are proving you very well may be the idiot everyone assumes you to be.

I object strenuously to your heartless characterization of our favourite developmentally challenged person as a pathetic asinine idiot and I have fined you with a bad rep point just to be sure to be seen as not supporting your treatment of idiots in any way.

 

[darkbeaver]

Petros
So then it follows that the lands or Kingdom of Egypt would not have existed - ???

As far as I know there is no mention of Israel or Jews in ancient Egyption history. Moses may be one and the same as Thutmos.

 

[Goober]

As far as I know there is no mention of Israel or Jews in ancient Egyption history. Moses may be one and the same as Thutmos.

DB
An interesting article from Time mag -

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,983854,00.html


Page 6 of 8

In 1990 Frank Yurco, an Egyptologist at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago, used hieroglyphic clues from a monolith known as the Merneptah Stele to identify figures in a Luxor wall relief as ancient Israelites. The stele itself, dated to 1207 B.C., celebrates a military victory by the Pharaoh Merneptah. "Israel is laid waste," it reads, suggesting that the Israelites were a distinct population more than 3,000 years ago, and not just because the Bible tells us so.

 

[petros]

Petros
So then it follows that the lands or Kingdom of Egypt would not have existed - ???

Egypt became a tax paying Greek state at that point just like the Hebrews paid taxes to the Temple who took their cut (more than needed and cheated the average Jew) and paid Rome.

What disqualifies descendants of the Philistines, Canaanites et al from land rights?

This is exactly why we have Prop 242 is it not? Was Prop 242 not supported by the UN and the people of the world who don't even believe their Biblical claim to right just so the Jewish people could have a safe refuge under the rule of law.

The very same global goverence is giving Israel it's rights. Correct? If Israel has never complied with the very body that gives it's rights then no agreed contract for those rights exists because the contract isn't being met under outlined conditions of said contract. Correct?

Is Israel not defying the others in this world who aren't Muslim, Christian or Jew but are being dragged into this putting their own well being on the line?

Why should more than half the population of this wonderful planet have to tolerate and risk their well being for the benefit of 7 million?

I'd say that is a huge kick to the teeth to all of us who live by and have fought and died for the rule of just law. Don't you Goober?

 

[Goober]

As far as I know there is no mention of Israel or Jews in ancient Egyption history. Moses may be one and the same as Thutmos.

DB
Some more info for you - Check out the map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean)

were the ruling dynasty of the Hasmonean Kingdom of Israel (140–37 BC),[1] an independent Jewish state. The Hasmonean dynasty was established under the leadership of Simon Maccabaeus, two decades after his brother Judah the Maccabee defeated the Seleucid army during the Maccabean Revolt in 165 BC. The Hasmonean Kingdom survived for 103 years before yielding to the Herodian Dynasty in 37 BC. Even then, Herod the Great felt obliged to bolster the legitimacy of his reign by marrying a Hasmonean princess, Mariamne, and conspiring to have the last male Hasmonean heir drowned in his Jericho palace.

According to historical sources including the books 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees and the first book of The Wars of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus (37–c. 100 AD),[2] the Hasmonean Kingdom rose after a successful revolt by the Jews against the Seleucid king Antiochus IV. After Antiochus' successful invasion of Ptolemaic Egypt was turned back by the intervention of the Roman Republic[3] he moved instead to assert strict control over Israel, sacking Jerusalem and its Temple, suppressing Jewish religious and cultural observances, and imposing Hellenistic practices.

 

[Goober]

Petros

UN 242 was rescinded in 2003

This is exactly why we have Prop 242 is it not? Was Prop 242 not supported by the UN and the people of the world who don't even believe their Biblical claim to right just so the Jewish people could have a safe refuge under the rule of law.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

The Security Council subsequently adopted resolution 1515 (2003), which recalled resolution 242 and endorsed the Middle East Quartet’s Road Map towards a permanent, two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Quartet Plan calls for direct, bilateral negotiations as part of a comprehensive resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, on the basis of UN Security Council Resolutions 242, 338, 1397, 1515, 1850, and the Madrid principles. The Quartet has reiterated that the only viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement that ends the occupation that began in 1967; resolves all permanent status issues as previously defined by the parties; and fulfils the aspirations of both parties for independent homelands through two states for two peoples, Israel and an independent, contiguous and viable state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security.[29]

Resolution 1860 (2009) recalled resolution 242 and stressed that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 that will be a part of the Palestinian state.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7924.doc.htm

ResolutionFollowing is the full text of Council resolution 1515 (2003):“The Security Council,“Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002) and the Madrid principles,“Expressing its grave concern at the continuation of the tragic and violent events in the Middle East,“Reiterating the demand for an immediate cessation of all acts of violence, including all acts of terrorism, provocation, incitement and destruction,“Reaffirming its vision of a region where two States, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders,“Emphasizing the need to achieve a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, including the Israeli-Syrian and Israeli-Lebanese tracks,“Welcoming and encouraging the diplomatic efforts of the international Quartet and others,“1. Endorses the Quartet Performance-based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (S/2003/529);“2. Calls on the parties to fulfil their obligations under the Roadmap in cooperation with the Quartet and to achieve the vision of two States living side by side in peace and security;“3. Decides to remain seized of the matter.”

 

[petros]

It's also a major reason why Israel has seized the opportunity to stage "Jerusalem 3000," a 17-month festival of art, music and archaeological exhibitions commemorating the 3,000th anniversary of the city's original conquest by the ancient Israelites.

What's an Israelite Goober? Is that a 12 triber?​

 

[petros]

DB
Some more info for you - Check out the map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean)

were the ruling dynasty of the Hasmonean Kingdom of Israel (140–37 BC),[1] an independent Jewish state. The Hasmonean dynasty was established under the leadership of Simon Maccabaeus, two decades after his brother Judah the Maccabee defeated the Seleucid army during the Maccabean Revolt in 165 BC. The Hasmonean Kingdom survived for 103 years before yielding to the Herodian Dynasty in 37 BC. Even then, Herod the Great felt obliged to bolster the legitimacy of his reign by marrying a Hasmonean princess, Mariamne, and conspiring to have the last male Hasmonean heir drowned in his Jericho palace.

According to historical sources including the books 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees and the first book of The Wars of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus (37–c. 100 AD),[2] the Hasmonean Kingdom rose after a successful revolt by the Jews against the Seleucid king Antiochus IV. After Antiochus' successful invasion of Ptolemaic Egypt was turned back by the intervention of the Roman Republic[3] he moved instead to assert strict control over Israel, sacking Jerusalem and its Temple, suppressing Jewish religious and cultural observances, and imposing Hellenistic practices.

Dude! Roman appointed kings?

 

[petros]

Petros

UN 242 was rescinded in 2003

This is exactly why we have Prop 242 is it not? Was Prop 242 not supported by the UN and the people of the world who don't even believe their Biblical claim to right just so the Jewish people could have a safe refuge under the rule of law.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

The Security Council subsequently adopted resolution 1515 (2003), which recalled resolution 242 and endorsed the Middle East Quartet’s Road Map towards a permanent, two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Quartet Plan calls for direct, bilateral negotiations as part of a comprehensive resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, on the basis of UN Security Council Resolutions 242, 338, 1397, 1515, 1850, and the Madrid principles. The Quartet has reiterated that the only viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement that ends the occupation that began in 1967; resolves all permanent status issues as previously defined by the parties; and fulfils the aspirations of both parties for independent homelands through two states for two peoples, Israel and an independent, contiguous and viable state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security.[29]

Resolution 1860 (2009) recalled resolution 242 and stressed that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 that will be a part of the Palestinian state.

SECURITY COUNCIL ADOPTS RESOLUTION ENDORSING ROAD MAP LEADING TOWARDS TWO-STATE RESOLUTION OF ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT

ResolutionFollowing is the full text of Council resolution 1515 (2003):“The Security Council,“Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002) and the Madrid principles,“Expressing its grave concern at the continuation of the tragic and violent events in the Middle East,“Reiterating the demand for an immediate cessation of all acts of violence, including all acts of terrorism, provocation, incitement and destruction,“Reaffirming its vision of a region where two States, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders,“Emphasizing the need to achieve a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, including the Israeli-Syrian and Israeli-Lebanese tracks,“Welcoming and encouraging the diplomatic efforts of the international Quartet and others,“1. Endorses the Quartet Performance-based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (S/2003/529);“2. Calls on the parties to fulfil their obligations under the Roadmap in cooperation with the Quartet and to achieve the vision of two States living side by side in peace and security;“3. Decides to remain seized of the matter.”

Are they are are they not obliging to the 6 Billion that live on this planet other than the Zionists and US Christian Zionists and make up the UN?

If you don't respect the very people who give you those rights and hold their well being in the balance you can't have a valid declaration as a State. NULL and VOID

 

[Colpy]

Are you 10 years old or what?

So still no tangible documentation of an early AD exile?

If there was an exile there should be oodles of Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Philistine, Persian, Mesopotamian and obviously Hebrew documentation of over hundreds of thousands of people going somewhere.

If you are going to claim to be an educated historian you better start walking the walk and strut your stuff because you asinine pathetic questions are proving you very well may be the idiot everyone assumes you to be.

:roll::roll::roll::roll: Look, ........the existence of Israel as a nation in antiquity is the standard interpretation.......backed by documentary primary evidence......

It is the same situation as with the case of those who deny the existence of the Holocaust. As the standard interpretation, it is considered truth, until disproven......then, as historians become convinced that a new way to view the past is actually correct, that new view becomes the standard interpretation....but that takes a long, long time, much study, many many scholarly dissertations...it ain't done in a day, and it sure as Hell ain't done by one book, published by a man outside his field of expertise, that has simply managed to tap into a vein of interest inspired by a certain political world view....

I'll cut to the chase....the standard interpretation is considered truth.

The onus is on those who believe another view is correct to disprove and displace the standard view.

It's all up to you.

Good luck.:lol:

And don't expect me to do your grunt work for you.

 

[petros]

And don't expect me to do your grunt work for you.

Then why did you?

 

[Colpy]

Are they are are they not obliging to the 6 Billion that live on this planet other than the Zionists and US Christian Zionists and make up the UN?

If you don't respect the very people who give you those rights and hold their well being in the balance you can't have a valid declaration as a State. NULL and VOID

Ohhhhhh....so now you are the arbitrator of what and whom is, or is NOT a state.......

Israel has a seat at the UN.

Israel is a state.

Even if Israel did NOT have a seat at the UN, Israel would STILL be a state.

Deal with it.....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[petros]

Look, ........the existence of Israel as a nation in antiquity is the standard interpretation.......backed by documentary primary evidence......

You are still acting like a 10 year old. We should believe in the toothfairy because everyone else your age was bull****ted into it.
If they can't prove it at Tel Aviv university and all it's science programs and access to information databases globally but you can and I should believe you because say "You don't do grunt work".

Deal with no proof and no right or cough it up.