Can muslims be good canadians?

[SirJosephPorter]

Can a good Christian be a good Canadian?

I am going to define a ‘good’ Christian the same way as the religious right defines a ‘good’ Muslim. Both the definitions are nonsense, but turnabout is fair play.

Theologically – no.

Because his allegiance is to Jesus, a form of the Hindu God Vishnu (or perhaps as Spade would claim, Horus).

Religiously – no

Because no other religion is accepted by his Jesus except Christianity.

Scripturally – no

Because his allegiance is to Jesus and the Christian Trinity (Father, Son and Holy ghost) first, to the government of the day second.

Geographically – no

Because his allegiance is to Bethlehem and to the cross.

Socially – no.

Because his religion forbids him to treat homosexuals, witches, women or non Christians as his equals in any respect.

Politically – no.

His allegiance is to Christ first, to the laws and regulations of the nation second. His theology tells him that if a law is in conflict with Bible, it is his duty to disobey the law. That is why we see Christians bombing abortion clinics, killing abortion performing doctors, resorting to gay bashing etc.

Intellectually – no

Because he cannot accept Canadian constitution which proclaims that all the human beings are equal (while in his theology, he is clearly superior to women, to homosexuals, to witches etc.).

Spiritually – no.

Because when the Charter declares that all human beings are equal, that gays must be allowed to marry, that there can be no restrictions on abortion, his Christian God, who is a zealous God, frowns down upon the Canadian constitution and so also does the ‘good’ Christian.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation....
perhaps we should be Very suspicious of AL CHRISTIANS
in this country. - - - They obviously Cannot be both
’good' Christians and good Canadians.
Call it what you wish
it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who
understand This, the better it will be for our country and our future.

 

[countryboy]

A tiny Zionists minority has changed the nature of Canada and the world for the continuation of one tiny war mongering country, Israel, and we are asked what we think about the targeted minority that have been victimized for fifty years. If Islam and common sense do not change us we will cease to exist as we thought to, as Canadians. We have become Canadian poodles of the Zionist crime monolith.

DB - Can you elaborate on how Islam and common sense should "change us?"

 

[JLM]

"The Bible says we shouldn't eat with known sinners, that isn't followed all that closely."

What does the Bible have to do with Muslims?
I don't discriminate with colour, creed or race, only behaviour.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

People I know don't interpret the Quran this way and don't consider it needed to be a good Mulsim as do many other reigions who answer to some sort of fairytale or another.

This thread is shrouded in bigotry.

Quite so, Avro, who decides if somebody is a good Muslim or not? Many Muslims interpret Koran, and they are at perfect liberty to do so. Same as most Christians interpret the Bible, they don’t take the Bible literally. That doesn’t make them bad Christians.

To define a ‘good’ Muslim as somebody who is an extremist, who is hate filled, who is quick on the trigger and then to condemn Islam (and Muslims) from that, ranks of sheer bigotry, prejudice and hatred.

 

[Avro]

I'd like to know the source of this piece by Ironsides.

 

[countryboy]

Can a good Christian be a good Canadian?

I am going to define a ‘good’ Christian the same way as the religious right defines a ‘good’ Muslim. Both the definitions are nonsense, but turnabout is fair play.

Theologically – no.

Because his allegiance is to Jesus, a form of the Hindu God Vishnu (or perhaps as Spade would claim, Horus).

Religiously – no

Because no other religion is accepted by his Jesus except Christianity.

Scripturally – no

Because his allegiance is to Jesus and the Christian Trinity (Father, Son and Holy ghost) first, to the government of the day second.

Geographically – no

Because his allegiance is to Bethlehem and to the cross.

Socially – no.

Because his religion forbids him to treat homosexuals, witches, women or non Christians as his equals in any respect.

Politically – no.

His allegiance is to Christ first, to the laws and regulations of the nation second. His theology tells him that if a law is in conflict with Bible, it is his duty to disobey the law. That is why we see Christians bombing abortion clinics killing abortion performing doctors, resorting to gay bashing etc.

Intellectually – no

Because he cannot accept Canadian constitution which proclaims that all the human beings are equal (while in his theology, he is clearly superior to women, to homosexuals, to witches etc.).

Spiritually – no.

Because when the Charter declares that all human beings are equal, that gays must be allowed to marry, that there can be no restrictions on abortion, his Christian God, who is a zealous God, frowns down upon the Canadian constitution and so also does the ‘good’ Christian.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation....
perhaps we should be Very suspicious of AL CHRISTIANS
in this country. - - - They obviously Cannot be both
’good' Christians and good Canadians.
Call it what you wish
it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who
understand This, the better it will be for our country and our future.

SirJP - Just what we need - more "suspicion" and conflict - what a way to build a peaceful and safe society.

It sounds like the only road (your only road) to ultimate enlightment would be to have everyone convert to atheism - the only "safe way." Mind you, that could get us into a bit of a tangle with the Charter...

All very confusing...it's a good thing curling will be on soon - something sensible to dwell on...

 

[ironsides]

A tiny Zionists minority has changed the nature of Canada and the world for the continuation of one tiny war mongering country, Israel, and we are asked what we think about the targeted minority that have been victimized for fifty years. If Islam and common sense do not change us we will cease to exist as we thought to, as Canadians. We have become Canadian poodles of the Zionist crime monolith.

Lets first get what are Zionists:
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.
And guess what, they did and are doing just that. Some of you just forced them into the position you accuse them of.

 

[Tonington]

No problem....you can believe in any god you please, and I don't care. welcome! The question was "good" Muslim...

Again, as Avro already pointed out, "good" was not in the thread title, nor was it in the opening line of the OP, nor did you include said adjective in your response.

Further, we have this line at the end of the OP:

Therefore, after much study and deliberation....
perhaps we should be Very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS
in this country.

No emphasis on my part.

It's junk. What is a good Muslim. Did you click on the link I provided for the No True Scotsman? It's an ad hoc definition. Maybe to you a good Muslim is a fundamental Muslim, but I don't see it that way, and all the Muslims I have met do not see it that way. Enlighten me if you have a good definition from a Muslim source here in Canada to what a good Muslim really is.

Sounds more like a mythical white whale to me than anything relevant to our immigration policy.

 

[YukonJack]

SirJosephPorter, in your impressive, albeit totally vacuous, dissertation, you forgot to mention one important fact: Canada is still a predominantly Christian country, and if it were anything like a typical Muslim country (like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc.) you would be, along with all others who are not Muslims, persecuted, shamed, overtaxed and, since you are obviously an extremist atheist, promptly and summarily executed. Similarly, in an atheist country, like China.

It is the Judeo-Christian foundation and tradition of Canada that allows opinions and religions flourish as they may.

So, thank all those horrible Christians for your freedom of expression, or try it in a Muslim or atheist country.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJP - Just what we need - more "suspicion" and conflict - what a way to build a peaceful and safe society.

It sounds like the only road (your only road) to ultimate enlightment would be to have everyone convert to atheism - the only "safe way." Mind you, that could get us into a bit of a tangle with the Charter...

All very confusing...it's a good thing curling will be on soon - something sensible to dwell on...

My post was sarcastic in nature, counrtyboy, I thought everybody would realize that. The original post, which started the thread was nonsense, so I countered it with more nonsense.

The message in the original post was so outrageous, so over the top, that the only proper response it deserved was ridicule.

 

[JLM]

SirJP - Just what we need - more "suspicion" and conflict - what a way to build a peaceful and safe society.

It sounds like the only road (your only road) to ultimate enlightment would be to have everyone convert to atheism - the only "safe way." Mind you, that could get us into a bit of a tangle with the Charter...

All very confusing...it's a good thing curling will be on soon - something sensible to dwell on...

Good point re the Charter (S.J.'s version of the Bible)

 

[Avro]

SirJosephPorter, in your impessive, albeit totally vacuous, dissertation, you forgot to mention one important fact: Canada is still a predominantly Christian country, and if it were anything like a typical Muslim country (like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc.) you would be, along with all others who are not Muslims, persecuted, shamed, overtaxed and, since you are obviously an extremist atheist, promptly and summarily executed. Similarly, in an atheist country, like China.

It is the Judeo-Christian foundation and tradition of Canada that allows opinions and religions flourish as they may.

So, thank all those horrible Christians for your freedom of expression, or try it in a Muslim or atheist country.

Well that is because their aren't to many "GOOD" christians in Canada.

Are you "GOOD" Yukon?

:lol:

 

[countryboy]

SirJosephPorter, in your impessive, albeit totally vacuous, dissertation, you forgot to mention one important fact: Canada is still a predominantly Christian country, and if it were anything like a typical Muslim country (like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc.) you would be, along with all others who are not Muslims, persecuted, shamed, overtaxed and, since you are obviously an extremist atheist, promptly and summarily executed. Similarly, in an atheist country, like China.

It is the Judeo-Christian foundation and tradition of Canada that allows opinions and religions flourish as they may.

So, thank all those horrible Christians for your freedom of expression, or try it in a Muslim or atheist country.

Woo-hoo! I hadn't thought of that, but those fresh prairie breezes in Winnipeg does give one a clear head...that's a pretty good point you raise there, YJ.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJosephPorter, in your impressive, albeit totally vacuous, dissertation,

Impressive? Thank you.

you forgot to mention one important fact: Canada is still a predominantly Christian country,

No it is not. I can use the same trick that religious right uses in characterizing the Muslims. Most of those Christians are not ‘good’ Christians, since they don’t hate gays, they don’t want to ban abortion, or bring back death penalty, they don’t believe that women should be subservient to men etc.

Since most Canadians are not ‘good’ Christians, that means that Canada is not a Christian country.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Well that is because their aren't to many "GOOD" christians in Canada.

Are you "GOOD" Yukon?

:lol:

You stole my point, Avro (sorry, just kidding, I probably posted my post while you were still posting yours).

 

[darkbeaver]

DB - Can you elaborate on how Islam and common sense should "change us?"

Islam is the target primarily because of geography and secondarily because of what that geography contains. If any other distinct group lived in that geography they would naturally also be the enemy. The destabalization of Islamic geography began several centuries ago and became geostratigicly pivotal with the advent of the age of oil which is power greater than the value of gold. No development into the kind enjoyed by the west is possible without the power of hydro carbons which are directly connected to 90 per cent of modern consumer industries and products. No nation can ignor oil which must be controlled or held in reserve by the empire of the day. So the present two decade old overt war has always been about the power of oil and nothing else. We see the same consoladation of reserves in the Carribean basin today. Power mastery is the ruling ideology on this planet. Islam is an enemy built of straw. We will learn that from our imposed friction with Islam and if we don't we will face the next enemy the empire chooses for us to crush for its continuation of the privilages of the very few. We live and work only for the maintenance of that very small club at the top. They rule by constant cultivation of differences. It is Islams very bad luck to occupy oil bearing lands.
Try taking a religious or ethical argument into a board room or a lab and see how fast you are laughed into the street.

 

[coldstream]

The natural form of governance for a Muslim state is a Theocracy. The Qur'an specifies in detail the role of government and subject and recognizes NO separation of Church and State. The sheer irreconcilability between Islam, in any form of scriptural purity, and the modern Western Nation State, is evident where Muslim populations in Europe have reached levels of density and political influence beyond the marginal, and are always oriented to most literal interpretation of Islam which sees democracy, and most forms of individuality, as Satanic.

 

[JLM]

Impressive? Thank you.



No it is not. .

That follow link dispells that myth, S.J. Population by religion, by province and territory (2001 Census)

 

[YukonJack]

"Well that is because their aren't to many "GOOD" christians in Canada.

Are you "GOOD" Yukon?"

Well, I try to be. My guide is the Ten Commandments and everything that Jesus added to it.

I listed my charitable activities on this forum on some other post, it was reviled by some as lies and/or bragging, but, strangely, never matched or superceded by any atheist.

As fo being GOOD Christians as opposed to GOOD Muslims: How much the Muslim countries donated to help Haitians after the devastating earthquake? I am willing to bet that ANY one small town in Canada or the United States donated more than the entire Muslim world. (At least by per capita), without the phony "pillar" of helping the poor as the Quoran commands all Muslims.

Don't know what a "pillar" is? Just goes to show how much you know about Islam.

 

[Colpy]

Quoting Colpy
No problem....you can believe in any god you please, and I don't care. welcome! The question was "good" Muslim.......and no, if you force your women into the chador, if you wish to practise polygamy, if you do not accept freedom of speech, and my right to denigrate Islam as part of that freedom, if you can't deal with the excesses of a free nation when it comes to sex, or homosexuality, if you hate Jews, if your belief in Muslim solidarity means you value "Palestine" more than Canada, if you dare to dream of bringing your wars to Canada, if you want to haul Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant before HRCs.....then I want you to get the hell out.

In fact, I don't want you to be allowed in!!!!

Does this apply to any religion?

Here is the difference.

I was raised in a very fundamentalist Baptist family. My brother is gay. A fact which was accepted, with love, by our parents. He is also intensely religious. He worked for years in a mainstream Christian Church in Toronto giving talks and working with clergy and laymen on integrating gays into the church.......he has a Masters in Divinity, and is currently working on A PhD in Divinity (Counselling) at a VERY conservative religious university....in VIRGINIA!!!!

Nobody, not a single person, in all these Christians.......many of them backwoods fundamentalist Baptists, has so much as insulted him purposely, much less assaulted him, stoned him, or tried to have him booted out of the church, or hanged.

Try THAT in a mosque.

There are some lunatics in the USA.....the guys that go to funerals of gays etc, but they are a couple of hundred psychotics....without ANY support in the wider church. Christianity is by nature ten thousand times as tolerant as Islam.