Obama Health care Reform
- Thread starter DaSleeper
- Start date
Not to belabour the point, but I thought you created the self-appointment when you said "Gopher is speaking figuratively, countryboy." in your post #115. I must have read that wrong, eh?
That's exactly it. That country already pays twice as much as anyone for healthcare. No alternative plan could cost that much.
What's really dumb is all the government in the US wants to do is offer people cheap insurance and create competition to private insurance campanies. They aren't gtting into the buisness of providing health care just coverage.
It's failure of the the dumbocrats to relay this info and success of the republicans and right wing media to obscure it.
Politics is the art of the possible, Avro. I also don’t think that the reforms they are proposing go far enough. However, Republicans and the right wing media are not the problem, the problem is the Democrats themselves.
Democrats have enough votes to pass health care reform, if they agree on one. Democratic Party is a coalition of varied interest groups, from far left to centre right. It has to be, in order to get such a huge mandate.
So it really depends upon what such varied interest groups can agree upon. And they cannot agree on a fundamental, sweeping change in the health care system, it will have to be a modest change.
However, the time to pass some kind of reform is now. Such an opportunity may not occur again for perhaps 50 years. Democrats need 60 Senators in the Senate, a comfortable majority in the House and they need the presidency.
If Republicans have anything to say about health care reform at all, nothing gets done, they don’t want any kind of reform, they like the present system (dominated by insurance companies and drug companies) just fine.
So this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and Democrats must pass some kind of reform, however modest. It is either that or no reform at all. Whatever the results of the next election, one thing is certain, Democrats will lose their filibuster proof majority in the senate.
Anyone ever think how much the doctors are going to make under this new plan (lots of loans to pay off just to be a doctor). Being there is a shortage of doctors what will 46 million more patients do to their work load. I can see those 3-6 or month waits some countries now have hitting us. Wonder how many potential doctors will seek another profession's? Wonder how many die waiting for care? Wonder, Wonder Wonder.
Most of us are happy with what we have, it is just the 46 million who have little or nothing who want this. Much cheaper to just give them insurance than revamp the whole medical plan. This is just another case of the minority telling the majority what is best for everyone. The U.S. cannot afford for this plan to cost us any more money, As some say, we are close to being broke.
No, I just checked post 115 and you read it right, CB. If you pay close attention (and often not that close of attention) you will notice S.J. will make a statement and then in response to others posts he will make "minor" adjustments eg. with statitics he started out months ago saying they were the unvarnished truth (paraphrasing here), now when it comes to 2009 vs. 1959, they are unrealiable. Stay tuned for further adjustments.......................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Whenever a major new legislation is passed, it is always the case of wonder, wonder, wonder, ironsides. That is natural. Same concerns were raised when Social Security or Medicare was enacted.
Assuming something gets passed (and it is by no means certain, though now it is beginning to look likely), you people will just have to wait and see. No doubt some unforeseen problems will emerge and they will need to be fixed in future. The legislation may have to be revisited in a few years’ time to sort out any kinks.
And doctor shortage is mostly artificial, both in USA and in Canada. AMA and CMA want the doctor shortage to continue, so that their profession will continue to be in great demand. I think currently both USA and Canada severely restrict the entry of foreign doctors not their country. If they relaxed the restriction somewhat, they will get a flood of foreign doctors with top notch training. But AMA and CMA want to keep the number of doctors limited.
Until the insurance company denies you your coverage. If you can afford insurance.
You ever consider that sometimes what's cheapest, isn't the same thing as what is best? Besides, the cost is sky-rocketing for health care. In the future, absent reforms, it will be far worse. Consult your Congressional Budget Office publications.
The Sunday edition of the Chronicle Herald has a report today that the Senators have secured a 60th hand for this week's upcoming votes.
The interesting thing I learned yesterday is that they need 60 votes only the first time the bill is debated. Once the bill is passed (by 60 or more votes), goes to reconciliation committee and comes back for the final vote, they don’t need 60 votes for that, a simple majority is sufficient.
Apparently there can be no filibuster of the bill that comes out of the reconciliation committee. So a handful of Democratic Senators may vote against the final bill (perhaps because of the changes made during reconciliation) and the bill would still be passed, assuming it gets 51 votes. Nebraska Senator, Ben Nelson has indicated that he may still vote against the final bill, if he doesn’t like it. But presumably that won’t make any difference.
So the vote they are going to have late today (or early tomorrow) is really a major hurdle. Assuming they get through it, the chances of a final bill getting approved improve significantly.
I was listening to Glen Beck Show and the substitute host was talking about healthcare and he said that the Democrats feel that it’s a right and the host said it is not a right just goods that you either buy or not buy.
Government healthcare is not free the money comes out of peoples taxes that they have to pay every year.
Private healthcare has a simple rule which is as long as you don’t use it too often you can stay in the plan and keep making the payments, but if you dare to overuse it then you get kicked out of the system and the private healthcare company won’t refund your money.
When government healthcare passes even in the watered down version it will be a start and when people that are paying their hard earned money to the private healthcare companies see friends and family that are in the government plan not pay any money upfront they will abandon their private healthcare plans.
Private healthcare will still have a market from companies that offer healthcare as a benefit to their employees because companies have deep pockets.
When this government healthcare passes a lot more Americans will have a better quality of life.
Government healthcare is not free the money comes out of peoples taxes that they have to pay every year.
Private healthcare has a simple rule which is as long as you don’t use it too often you can stay in the plan and keep making the payments, but if you dare to overuse it then you get kicked out of the system and the private healthcare company won’t refund your money.
When government healthcare passes even in the watered down version it will be a start and when people that are paying their hard earned money to the private healthcare companies see friends and family that are in the government plan not pay any money upfront they will abandon their private healthcare plans.
Private healthcare will still have a market from companies that offer healthcare as a benefit to their employees because companies have deep pockets.
When this government healthcare passes a lot more Americans will have a better quality of life.
A better plan than government take-over.
The Republican Health Care Plan, In A Nutshell
By Michael Eden
Radio talk host and author Mark Levin explained the Republican health care plan in a nutshell to a caller who demanded, “Where’s the Republican plan?”
In the course of two minutes, Levin proceeds to lay out the essence of the Republican health plan (which Democrats have deceitfully and maliciously claimed did not exist in all their ‘party of no’ rhetoric), and revealed the stupidity of the Glenn Beck “There’s no difference between the parties” foolishness:
YouTube - Levin on GOP Health Care Plan
Ad hominem attackers at the ready; go.
The Republican Health Care Plan, In A Nutshell
By Michael Eden
Radio talk host and author Mark Levin explained the Republican health care plan in a nutshell to a caller who demanded, “Where’s the Republican plan?”
In the course of two minutes, Levin proceeds to lay out the essence of the Republican health plan (which Democrats have deceitfully and maliciously claimed did not exist in all their ‘party of no’ rhetoric), and revealed the stupidity of the Glenn Beck “There’s no difference between the parties” foolishness:
YouTube - Levin on GOP Health Care Plan
Ad hominem attackers at the ready; go.
Walter I had this discussion many years ago with a fellow from NH. He spoke about health credits, health savings plans & in the end he realized both those features are only as goods as how much money you make which was OK by him but screw anyone not as well off. Being from NH he had a hard with breaking down regulatory restricitions something about the feds impinging on states rights & he agreed tort reform should be effected but not at the loss of punitive damages. Draw whatever conclusions you want however I think healthcare in the US has becomes a whipping horse for all that gone wrong over the few years.
You took the words (or rather, the word) right out of my mouth. These days India is the preferred destination to get good quality, inexpensive health care. Some Canadians already go there. And not only Canadians, but Europeans, rich people form Middle Eastern countries also visit India, it is quite a cash cow for India these days.
Many people in India are dirt poor, they don’t have access to any health care (nor could they afford to pay for it, even if they did have the access). But at the other end, they have very good quality health care, for those who can afford to pay for it. And by European or North American standards, it is quite cheap.
There are many websites about medical tourism.
Medical tourism India, Medical surgery treatments clinics Abroad, Health care procedure hospital Overseas
That is quite a valid question, Walter. Republicans controlled the Congress for 12 years, out of that they also controlled the presidency for six years. Why didn’t they try to pass their so called health care plan at that time? During the period 2000 to 2006, they could have passed pretty much anything they wanted.
Why all of a sudden now they have a health care plan? The reason of course is, because Democrats are trying to pass one. If Democrats are unsuccessful in passing their health care plan (and it looks like it will be passed), the Republican health care plan will magically disappear into thin air.
I was listening to Glen Beck Show and the substitute host was talking about healthcare and he said that the Democrats feel that it’s a right and the host said it is not a right just goods that you either buy or not buy. Glad to hear you have good taste in the radio shows you listen to. :smile:
Government healthcare is not free the money comes out of peoples taxes that they have to pay every year. Now there's a profound observation...you forgot to mention that those taxes would no doubt rise (dramatically) when governments start running these programs - whether "promised or not." Unless the U.S. is going to do a more efficient job of it than we do in Canada - where health care is around 40% of some provincial budgets - they can look forward to some very healthy tax increases coming at them over the next few years.
Private healthcare has a simple rule which is as long as you don’t use it too often you can stay in the plan and keep making the payments, but if you dare to overuse it then you get kicked out of the system and the private healthcare company won’t refund your money. Really? The plan I used to be on in the U.S. had no such rule. Maybe it only applies in some cases. It didn't, in mine.
When government healthcare passes even in the watered down version it will be a start and when people that are paying their hard earned money to the private healthcare companies see friends and family that are in the government plan not pay any money upfront they will abandon their private healthcare plans. I have no doubt they will abandon them. The increase in taxes might have something to do with that!
Private healthcare will still have a market from companies that offer healthcare as a benefit to their employees because companies have deep pockets. Now Liberalman, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your posting name, but have you considered a change to say, NDPman? Reason I (respectfully) suggest this is your impression that "companies have deep pockets" sounds a lot like the stuff that people like Jack Layton have been spewing for a long time. By "deep pockets" I take it you mean that all companies have loads of excess cash lying around to spend on anything that catches their eye. Without going into a lot of detail, I (again, respectfully) suggest that you might want to dig into this a bit further so that you can make more informed observations, or at least ones that some people could take more seriously.
When this government healthcare passes a lot more Americans will have a better quality of life. That will remain to be seen. If they run into a few snags like we have up here - little issues like people who die in emergency waiting rooms while being ignored by overworked staff (Winnipeg), ridiculously long waiting times for tests, lying in a bed in a hallway because of overcrowded conditions, having to travel from Rolla, North Dakota to Minneapolis for a simple test, and a few other bothersome issues - they might wonder about their improved quality of life.
My point is this: Passing some legislation isn't going to quickly or magically improve much at all...in fact, if there is a transition from private to government run health care, there will be a load of problems and screw-ups that will present a whole new set of problems. Theories are great things, but we're talking about real life & death situations here. The jury is still out as to how wonderful it will all be...and expectations are surely running very high right now.