No, we need the same coverage the Senate and Congress have, no more, no less. If they cannot give it to us, get out of our health decision making.
Obama Health care Reform
- Thread starter DaSleeper
- Start date
No, we need the same coverage the Senate and Congress have, no more, no less. If they cannot give it to us, get out of our health decision making.
You know, if one criticizes our health care system, one risks getting jumped on and getting accused of being an extremist right-winger, intolerant, uncaring, unpatriotic, and an America lover! (It's happened to me...I don't mind the "America-lover" one at all...I consider that one a compliment)
I don't know why discussions on our health care system have to be so emotional and polarized...left-wing, right-wing, and all that BS. The fact is, nothing is perfect and our health care system is no exception. There are lots of examples of where it has worked well, and many where it hasn't. But that shouldn't stop us from trying to make it better.
I don't think it's some sort of "national treasure" or "hallowed ground"...it's a health care system...and it's got lots of problems. And if we don't admit there are problems, they will never get fixed. And things will get worse.
It has "wait time problems" galore, overworked people (doctors and nurses), administrative confusion, people in rural areas that have to travel stupid distances for simple treatment, costs are rising to unaffordable levels, and I'm sure there are many, many more "issues" with our system. People are suffering and dying within this system.
I have no idea how Canada (or all the provinces, I should say...as health care is a provincial responsibility, I believe) can even begin to undertake a cleaning up of the system to make it work better. We can't seem to get beyond our hypersensitivity on this issue.
The very fact that it is government-run makes it a challenge...governments aren't known to place a high priority on "customer service" or efficiency, and it doesn't much matter which political party happens to be in power...inefficiency comes in all political flavours.
I do know that the move in the U.S. toward a national system is going to be a very tricky exercise. And risky too. Imagine the problems in our health care multiplied by 10 or more. Of course, each "side" (right vs. left) in that battle has their own emotional point of view, but the intensity tends to blur the facts to the point where it becomes confusing to listen to...and that problem isn't limited to the US...it happens here all the time.
All I can say is, God Bless America in this conflict...it involves home territory and every citizen in it, and it may prove to be the biggest internal challenge since the Civil War.
If our health system is to work properly people have to be far more flexible. It all comes down to simple math. We have to either expect less from the system or be prepared to pay more, it's as simple as that. A "single tier" system is just one method of providing healthcare and not necessarily the best system, but we do know that it's not working. Some people are so adamant about the poor receiving the same service as the rich, but can't see far enough past the end of their noses that, THAT is what a two tier system would accomplish, the rich people (by moving out of the line up and adding their own money) would make it better for all the rest of us. Just too much of this "dog in a manger attitude". I think the fact also has to be faced that any gov't. run operation is top heavy with bureaucrats. I think a $20 up front fee for E.R. visits would go a long way to help. The destitute of course would just have a card to present. It seems that at the political level at least no one wants to change and they are just going to continue bashing their heads against the same old wall in the same old spot. Also I would like to see financial incentives for people who practice a healthy lifestyle, from what I see a lot of people hauling out of the grocery stores I think a formidable "junk food tax" would be a great idea (the proceeds of which would go directly toward heart bypasses and diabetes treatment).
Well, there you go again JLM...confusing the issue with a bunch of facts and solid suggestions! :lol:
Seriously, you've said a lot there. A lot of good stuff. All this emotional left/right head bashing is just eating up valuable time while the system is getting worse by the minute.
I like all the points you made, and I really like the junk food tax idea. That gets right to the heart
of prevention of a lot of ills. Can you imagine the outcry if a 50% tax was levied on pop drinks? Make it 150% on the really bad ones with "no sugar" in them. 'Course, my answer to that would be something like "tough sh*t"...they've done it on booze and cigarettes so why not the rest of the crap that's proven to be not good for us? What are they waiting for? I'd take 'er a step further and eliminate income tax (yes, I said "eliminate") for any farmer who produces real food without crap (additives) in it. Why? Because they would automatically become part of the solution, and should be rewarded accordingly. As long as the govts. don't go out and hire 10,000 experts and consultants to figure all this out to make politically correct. I'll give them the list of eligible products for a very reasonable one-time price, and all they have to do is get 'er going.
Gopher - I'm curious about something. You obviously feel strongly about your position on health care, and I certainly respect that. But when you said "Any SOB politician who fails to vote for it ought to be impeached and removed from office" indicates to me that you might have a high degree of intolerance for other people's opinions and positions. Especially politicians.
Now were you really serious about what you said? I mean, I don't understand the American system all that well, but would (or could) a non-vote for any particular bill result in impeachment and removal from office?
My last question is this: I know about the Republican and Democratic parties in the US, but I've never heard of the "SOB" party...is it a relatively new one?
Indeed the Democrats were voted into office but a lot of times US voters have a "throw all the bums out" attitude at the voting booths. So yes the Democrats are in control but if they take the attitude that they will do whatever they want they will become those "bums" if you will.
The Democrats are very wary of the voters and although Democrat seats are secure in some places, like here in Massachusetts, other states and districts are not so secure. The Health Care Bill as it stands is littered with pork and sweetners for Democrats that were on the fence. It is not a pure Health Care Bill, no bills are actually. Even though Pelosi has stated she is willing to give up some seats to pass a Health Care bill some of her Democrat colleagues aren't so willing to become the sacrificial lambs for her or the President.
Fix the system or change people's lifestyles? The system is fine. It's the people's lifestyles that are broken.
I certainly agree with you on the lifestyle part...no question about it.
At the same time, I have a bit of curiousity about the system itself too. I realize that if you "clean up" the inputs to it, it would work better. But, I'm also thinking about some of the "setups" in terms of administration and what issues might be lurking in there. Example? I wonder what the ratio of "administrative people" vs. "hands-on" health care people really is? I'm only going by what other organizations face on a daily basis...how to prevent "bloat" at the top, meaning entire organization structures of supervisors, etc. that might no longer be necessary because the needs and conditions have changed, but the org. didn't change with them. That's pretty much what I meant by that...
Gopher is speaking figuratively, countryboy. Senators and Congressmen cannot be impeached. Impeachment is reserved for the executive branch (presidents, governors) and the judges.
If a Senator or Congressman misbehaves, the only remedy is action by the whole chamber (which rarely happens) or people throwing him out at the next election (which can happen if it is a swing district, but again, rarely happens in a safe Republican or a safe Democratic district).
Quite so, EagleSmack. Joan of Arc will be on the throne in Washington D.C., Bible (or rather the Fundamentalist version of the Bible) will become the constitution, Christian Sharia will be the rule of the day, Christian Taliban will govern the country and everybody will live happily ever after (or at least they better act as if they are happy, or else.),
YOu're back, S.J. a bunch of us were getting concerned and going to send out search and rescue. Hopefully the hiatus cleared your head a little and your debating skills will be even more enhanced......................:smile::smile:
I had to go on a business trip, JLM. At my age, I am trying not to go on business trips as far as possible, these days there are conference calls, teleconference etc. But I absolutely couldn’t get out of this one. They wanted me to visit India around this time, around Christmas, but I told them to go whistle.
I am self employed and I am trying to cut down on my commitments, but it is not always possible.
I am self employed and I am trying to cut down on my commitments, but it is not always possible.