Not trying to dissuade you, DB. If you think 'evil' explains it then, so be it. I respectfully disagree though. :smile:
Racism - Come on down & Splain yourself Eh.
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
Not trying to dissuade you, DB. If you think 'evil' explains it then, so be it. I respectfully disagree though. :smile:
Karrie -
Just a couple of points as I do not think this thread is useless- we can disagree on that thoughFrom my original postRacism is not just a White Mans Game - Everyone is - and - or - has the ability to be racist at times.
But what drives you to spend your life hating other peoples.We all have it in us - as one poster mentioned and this is my interpretation of his post - as he grew older he learned the difference between people was not color or not religion - the differences are other things that are not based upon hate for a persons race, color, religion -
I grew up in a middle class family that when my parents divorced - well after that we were dirt poor - was I treated differently in school - yes - we had 2 high schools - 1 Catholic - 1 Protestant - well if you have every been driving around the Maritimes and going thru a small community - the poor communities were Catholic with grand churches - the richer communities were Protestant with smaller churches - Did being treated poorly by the rich kids affect me - yes - but now I am not poor and I do quite well - Was always a worker before the parents went their separate ways - But what I am getting to was because I was poor - and others like me in the school - Prejudice was felt - from words to looks - But prejudice on family status -
Regardless - My parents taught us that everyone was the same - No racism - different religions were just that - another persons beliefs - it was their business and you stayed out of a persons business - if you catch my drift - Racism was not tolerated -
Prior to the Parents divorce they ran a rooming house and Dad had a good job, paid quite well - and a 2nd job on the side - also made moonshine - Often people with little to no money would arrive in town looking for work, possibly only a few dollars to their name - and when I say a few dollars I am talking less than 10 - rooms were 1 dollar a night - Every one that could not pay was welcomed and provided a room till they found work - a reasonable time was agreed to - and my parents fed them at the dinner table with us - and Mom packed them a lunch when they started working. Dad helped them find work if he could.
In the 60s PEI was a very poor Province. So I grew up meeting many people from different places from a varity of places in the world - My parents taught us well - That is only part of the story that I wish to share now
Have I encountered Racism when I was in the Military - Yes - but I am a WASP - very little I could do about it when I first joined but I did not participate. But as I was promoted I could do and I did action any racist comments from troops -
I was a rebel and a hellion as a child and while I was in the Military the traits carried with me - So when I did these things I had to be a harder worker - smarter about the trade than my superiors and be prepared to lose out on promotions at times - and yes it did happen - I knew the price and to me it was well worth the cost.
And yes I do have many shortcomings - I am human -
As to the roots of a problem - that is where you go to change something - not at the end - at the beginning.
Hope this gives you some perspective on the reasons I posted this thread and yes we do have racism on this Forum.
I may have taken some things out of context as Ron has deleted some threads - so If I have it was not in any way intentional.
Karrie - from your post.
As soon as a single person walks in and says 'hey, I'm a racist!' and means it, I will happily eat my words on the issue
Hope this gives you some perspective on the reasons I posted this thread and yes we do have racism on this Forum.
No I did not expect them to come on down - But the are on this forum - Just read some of the threads -
Like I mentioned - they are cowards - 99.999999 % accurate on that I would say.And am I better than a Racist? - Damm straight I am - they thrive on hate and division -
And here I thought a definition of "racism" would be easy. Just back from a (slow, dial-up) Google tour to see what I could find. Here are a few definitions to consider:
Racism...
Because the word "race" naturally appears in those definitions, I took a poke at a definition of that word. But, all the sites that looked promising were quite slow, so I found one to ponder:
RACE (Wikipedia):
Any of the different varieties or populations of human beings distinguished by
a) physical traits such as hair, eyes, skin color, body shape, etc.: traditionally, the three primary divisions are Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, although many subdivisions of these are also called races
b) blood types
c) genetic code patterns
d) all their inherited characteristics which are unique to their isolated breeding population
So there is some more input into the discussion on what racism is. See anything you agree with up there?
Racism...
- is a manifestation of stereotypical attitudes towards members of a certain race or ethnic group. Inappropriate treatment based on race constitutes racism. Racism is a form of discrimination.
- The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
- belief in or doctrine asserting racial differences in character, intelligence, etc. and the superiority of one race over another or others
- An ideology based on the idea that humans can be separated into distinct racial groups and that these groups can be ranked on a hierarchy of intelligence, ability, morality etc.
- the belief that one’s own race is superior to another. This belief is based on the erroneous assumption that physical attributes determine the social behavior and intelligence of a group. Ultimately, the racist believes that the inferiority of others is a basis for inferior social treatment.
- discrimination or prejudice based on race
- The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes; The belief that one race is superior to all others; Prejudice or discrimination based upon race
- the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
- discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race
Because the word "race" naturally appears in those definitions, I took a poke at a definition of that word. But, all the sites that looked promising were quite slow, so I found one to ponder:
RACE (Wikipedia):
Any of the different varieties or populations of human beings distinguished by
a) physical traits such as hair, eyes, skin color, body shape, etc.: traditionally, the three primary divisions are Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, although many subdivisions of these are also called races
b) blood types
c) genetic code patterns
d) all their inherited characteristics which are unique to their isolated breeding population
So there is some more input into the discussion on what racism is. See anything you agree with up there?
And just how do you figure that attacks on Muslims are racist, darkbeaver? Are you seriously saying that Muslims are attacked because they are black?
That is absurd. Islam is a nasty religion (so is Christianity, but that is a different issue) and Muslims are attacked because a significant minority of them insist on literal interpretation of Islam (terrorist bombings, stoning women to death, cutting off hands of a thief etc.).
Islam (and some Muslims) is attacked because of the barbaric practices they follow, it has nothing to do with racism. As for me, I have said some nasty things about Islam here (and about Christianity as well, but again, that is a separate issue), and I don’t care if I am called a racist for that (I have been called worse).
So if attacking practices such as stoning women to death, 9/11 bombing etc. is racism, then I plead guilty.
Hey, Goober, good to see you back. Your explanation of why you posted this topic is spot on. Racism, in my opinion, is one of those traits which need to be brought in to the open and you have given us a chance to do so.
Ron suggested we broaden the topic but I will leave it up to you to decide whether or not to do so, your topic, your choice. :smile:
Ron suggested we broaden the topic but I will leave it up to you to decide whether or not to do so, your topic, your choice. :smile:
The thread gets locked up and purged if people resort to senseless, uncalled for name calling. It is possible to discuss the subject of this thread without getting into mud slinging and personal insults.
Quite so, countryboy, that is indeed the problem, everybody defines racism differently. And everybody’s definition is such that the definition excludes himself from being called a racist. Thus Rush ‘drug addict’ Limbaugh would vehemently deny that he is a racist, and according to his definition of what is racism, he is not a racist (Obama, Rev. Jackson, Hillary Clinton etc. are).
So how does one decide if somebody is a racist? Well to me, the ultimate arbiters of it are the victims of racism, such as blacks. If blacks say that somebody is a racist, then he is a racist in my opinion.
And that really is my definition of racism. I think it is a very succinct, simple enough definition. Always listen to the victim group, see what they say. If blacks say that somebody is a racist, then he is a racist in my book. If women say that somebody is a sexist, then he is a sexist. If homosexuals say that somebody is a homophobe, then he indeed is one, at least in my book.
Well, I have given you my definition of racism, it is a simple definition. If most of blacks say that somebody is a racist, then he indeed is one.
And by blacks, I don’t mean a few nuts in black community (there are a few in every community). But if the general consensus seems to be that somebody is a racist, then in my book he is one.
Thus, Rush ‘drug addict’ Limbaugh made racist comments on ESPN, there was a general consensus that the comments were racist. He was fired from ESPN for those comments. that makes him a racist, in my opinion.
Or he routinely refers to Feminists as Nazis (FemNazis, he calls Feminists). Most women would agree that that indeed constitutes sexism.
Or Senator Lott made some racist comments, he lost his leadership position as a result of that. There again, blacks were almost unanimous that the comments were indeed racist.
That is the criteria I use, what is the black consensus.
you know that isn't going to happen, karrie. Even the worst kind of racist would not admit that he is a racist (and he probably isn't, by his own definition).
Yes it is, karrie. There is nothing wrong in making assumptions, we make assumptions every day in our life. Indeed, there won’t be any science without assumptions, any theory, any hypothesis makes plenty of assumptions.
Thus, suppose you are interviewing somebody. Based upon first impression, you make plenty of assumptions. Then later if some of them are dispelled, well and good, if not, they stay and influence your decision as to whether you are going to hire him.
So there is nothing wrong in making assumptions regarding political affiliations, taste in beer and so on.
When you make assumptions based upon religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, it can get tricky. Again, there is nothing wrong in making such assumption. But if you act upon them (deny black employment because you think blacks are less intelligent than whites), you will fall foul of the law.
It is not wrong (at least not illegal) to hold racist views, it is wrong (and illegal) to act upon them to the detriment of a particular race.
As one office holder once said in Clinton administration (when talking of racism), “we may not change your attitude, but we certainly are going to change your behavior”.
Mowich, all these isms are facts of life, and occur every day. But out of this, only discrimination, bigotry and intolerance are illegal, all the others are perfectly legal.
Gaia give my patience! SirJP, we are not discussing the legality or illegality of racsim here. We are discussing the possible reasons for it or how it has touched our own lives or what we might have done or didn't do to step in and stop it.
That is all very well Mowich (and most of us can agree on these definitions), but it really doesn’t get us very far. What does it mean?
For instance, which sexist is going to admit that he discriminates against women because of their gender? Even the worst kind of sexist will always find some reason not to hire a woman and to hire a man (she isn’t qualified enough, she isn’t tall enough, the job needs a tall person, she has kids and so doesn’t want to work 24/7, a man can work 24/7, a woman’s voice is too high pitched, the job needs someone with a deep voice and so on).
Thus there was plenty of opposition to hire women fire fighters, some people claimed that women don’t have the required physical strength. Others claimed that that was sexist.
Or those who oppose gay marriage refuse to acknowledge that they are homophobic, but some gays insist that opposition to gay marriage equals homophobia.
So these definitions, though admirable are too vague and don’t really get us anywhere.
Mowich -
I cannot access at work anymore as they blocked these sites - Buggers - so I work 10 hr days - 4 on and 4 off - today was day 1 -
But I have reading some really posts -
Broadening the topic is one way of learning - that is what I think - so I have no problem at all and agree wholeheartedly - To many people limit their ability to learn and also to teach - We all have both qualities - So send ideas to Ron and see what he says. I have absolute trust in Ron making the appropriate decisions.
SJP
That is the criteria I use, what is the black consensus.
That can be a dangerous criteria to use -