Racism - Come on down & Splain yourself Eh.

[Ron in Regina]

You beat me to it!!!

Maybe a broader definition (as opposed to narrower) is needed in this
discussion.....and maybe "Racism" isn't the right word, thought I'm not
sure what the correct Label would be.

The concept of "Prejudicing for or against someone based on personal
and preconceived stereotypes" would be the definition but I'm at a loss
for a word that definition belongs to.

Using that definition, people could beat each other over the head based
on more than race....and could include occupations, incomes, area's in
a region that they reside in, Nationalities, political leanings whether they
are valid observations or not, Religions, educational levels, heights and
weights and appearances, and any other thing that can make anyone
different than anyone else.

I don't know what kind of "*****ism" that would be, but it would smell just
as nasty as Racism does....

....bump....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

And here I thought a definition of "racism" would be easy. Just back from a (slow, dial-up) Google tour to see what I could find.

Countryboy, volumes have been written on subject of racism, many people have died because of racism, many injustices have been perpetrated because of racism. What made you think that its definition would be easy?

 

[Mowich]

That is all very well Mowich (and most of us can agree on these definitions), but it really doesn’t get us very far. What does it mean?

For instance, which sexist is going to admit that he discriminates against women because of their gender? Even the worst kind of sexist will always find some reason not to hire a woman and to hire a man (she isn’t qualified enough, she isn’t tall enough, the job needs a tall person, she has kids and so doesn’t want to work 24/7, a man can work 24/7, a woman’s voice is too high pitched, the job needs someone with a deep voice and so on).

The point that a sexist will not out themselves here has been covered by someone else, I forget who now, who said the same thing about racists.



Thus there was plenty of opposition to hire women fire fighters, some people claimed that women don’t have the required physical strength.

Others claimed that that was sexist.

And they would have been absolutely right.

Or those who oppose gay marriage refuse to acknowledge that they are homophobic, but some gays insist that opposition to gay marriage equals homophobia.

And those gays may just be right. After all if one is not homophobic then why should the idea of gays marrying bother them at all?

So these definitions, though admirable are too vague and don’t really get us anywhere.

But then, neither is this discussion.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Gaia give my patience! SirJP, we are not discussing the legality or illegality of racsim here. We are discussing the possible reasons for it or how it has touched our own lives or what we might have done or didn't do to step in and stop it.

I agree, Mowcih (and I understand that Gaia is a gracious Goddess, she is not a malevolent entity like Gods of some religion, I assume she will give you plenty of patience). It is just that you mentioned several other types of isms, and they are not at all like racism.

For instance, what is wrong with favoritism? Most of us play favorites at some time in our life. We may give the job to somebody who is referred to us by our friend. Even though he may be qualified for the job, you don’t know that there isn’t somebody much more qualified out there.

Or my friend’s niece may have just started a catering busyness, I may give her the contract to cater my party, even though I don’t know if she is any good (and there is an excellent caterer in town).

So I don’t think there is any similarity at all between racism and some of the other isms you mentioned (like favoritism).

 

[Mowich]

Mowich -
I cannot access at work anymore as they blocked these sites - Buggers - so I work 10 hr days - 4 on and 4 off - today was day 1 -

But I have reading some really posts -

Broadening the topic is one way of learning - that is what I think - so I have no problem at all and agree wholeheartedly - To many people limit their ability to learn and also to teach - We all have both qualities - So send ideas to Ron and see what he says. I have absolute trust in Ron making the appropriate decisions.

Buggers for sure, Goob. Sorry to hear that. Will struggle on. Get some sleep. :sleepy1:

 

[Goober]

Mowich
Don’t start till 5 am - pick up my wife as she works late - have supper and a couple of cold home made beers -

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That is all very well Mowich (and most of us can agree on these definitions), but it really doesn’t get us very far. What does it mean?



The point that a sexist will not out themselves here has been covered by someone else, I forget who now, who said the same thing about racists.



Thus there was plenty of opposition to hire women fire fighters, some people claimed that women don’t have the required physical strength.


And they would have been absolutely right.



And those gays may just be right. After all if one is not homophobic then why should the idea of gays marrying bother them at all?



But then, neither is this discussion.

Mowich, reasonable people may disagree as to whether these acts are of sexism or homophobia. Personally I think refusing to hire women as firefighters is sexist, but many reasonable people, who oppose gay marriage, are far from homophobic.

But this really demonstrates that the definitions given by you, though an admirable attempt, are vague and open to interpretation.

 

[Mowich]

I agree, Mowcih (and I understand that Gaia is a gracious Goddess, she is not a malevolent entity like Gods of some religion, I assume she will give you plenty of patience). It is just that you mentioned several other types of isms, and they are not at all like racism.

For instance, what is wrong with favoritism? Most of us play favorites at some time in our life. We may give the job to somebody who is referred to us by our friend. Even though he may be qualified for the job, you don’t know that there isn’t somebody much more qualified out there.

Or my friend’s niece may have just started a catering busyness, I may give her the contract to cater my party, even though I don’t know if she is any good (and there is an excellent caterer in town).

So I don’t think there is any similarity at all between racism and some of the other isms you mentioned (like favoritism).

SirJP, I most respectfully and humbly refer you to posts #69, #75, #98 and #112 - please read them.

Goober started this topic on racism. If you want to start a topic on favoritism, please feel free. :smile:

 

[Mowich]

Mowich
Don’t start till 5 am - pick up my wife as she works late - have supper and a couple of cold home made beers -

Well enjoy those beers, Goob. :smile: I am trying my best to keep SirJP on track here and not get all flustered. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Goober]

Well enjoy those beers, Goob. :smile: I am trying my best to keep SirJP on track here and not get all flustered. :lol::lol::lol:

I think Dr Goober would suggest a nice cold beer - as it is thirsty work -


I am still waiting for a reply on the below.

That is the criteria I use, what is the black consensus.

That can be a dangerous criteria to use -

 

[Mowich]

Mowich, reasonable people may disagree as to whether these acts are of sexism or homophobia. Personally I think refusing to hire women as firefighters is sexist, but many reasonable people, who oppose gay marriage, are far from homophobic.

But this really demonstrates that the definitions given by you, though an admirable attempt, are vague and open to interpretation.

I, unfortuantely, know a couple of very reasonable people, SirJP, who are anything but open-minded when it comes to gays and women in the workplace. Being reasonable does not limit a person's ability to be intolerant or racist.

Just about anything is open to interpretation for as human beings we put our own slant on things.

 

[Mowich]

I'm thinking mental health might be worth discussion....

Might be a grand idea, lone wolf. :lol::lol: However, this is Goober's topic on racism so I won't, except for this aside, start on that one here. :smile:

 

[countryboy]

Countryboy, volumes have been written on subject of racism, many people have died because of racism, many injustices have been perpetrated because of racism. What made you think that its definition would be easy?

Because I usually try to make things simple, at least at the outset. It tends to help one see things with a touch of clarity, and avoid rambling on and boring people with condescending preaching that could be totally off-base, not to mention time-wasting and offensive.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJP, I most respectfully and humbly refer you to posts #69, #75, #98 and #112 - please read them.

Goober started this topic on racism. If you want to start a topic on favoritism, please feel free. :smile:

I didn't mention favoritism first, Mowich, you did. i was simply responding to you. Your post #73, to be specific.

 

[Goober]

I, unfortuantely, know a couple of very reasonable people, SirJP, who are anything but open-minded when it comes to gays and women in the workplace. Being reasonable does not limit a person's ability to be intolerant or racist.

Just about anything is open to interpretation for as human beings we put our own slant on things.

MowichBang on - I to know many kind hearted people that draw the line at Gay Marriage - That does not in any way make them bad people - they have their beliefs - they do not discriminate on sex - color -religion etc - But when it comes to Gay Marriage they are dead set against it - So are they wrong or are they right - To me they are right as they are sticking to their beliefs - I have no problem with Gay Marriage - I did have a problem with how Martin brought it in - pure politics meant to divide the public. Just my opinion though.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

MowichBang on - I to know many kind hearted people that draw the line at Gay Marriage - That does not in any way make them bad people - they have their beliefs - they do not discriminate on sex - color -religion etc - But when it comes to Gay Marriage they are dead set against it - So are they wrong or are they right - To me they are right as they are sticking to their beliefs - I have no problem with Gay Marriage - I did have a problem with how Martin brought it in - pure politics meant to divide the public. Just my opinion though.

Quite so, Goober. Reasonable people can disagree about gay marriage. However, in my opinion somebody who does not support civil unions indeed is homophobic.

Anyway, this really illustrates the problems with defining racism, sexism etc. I still like my definition, ask the victims themselves.

Anyway, enough fun, back to work. Bye.

 

[Goober]

Because I usually try to make things simple, at least at the outset. It tends to help one see things with a touch of clarity, and avoid rambling on and boring people with condescending preaching that could be totally off-base, not to mention time-wasting and offensive.

countryboy -

You must have grown up in a small town - While some consider it a fault I consider this to be a quality - reply to a question - short -blunt at times - clear and concise - some people want an answer 9 miles long and 3 miles wide - Old saying of mine -
Not sure where I heard it - but it applies at times.

 

[Mowich]

I didn't mention favoritism first, Mowich, you did. i was simply responding to you. Your post #73, to be specific.

Good grief, my bad. No wonder you went off topic. Will have to police my posts better. Sorry, SirJP.

 

[Goober]

Quite so, Goober. Reasonable people can disagree about gay marriage. However, in my opinion somebody who does not support civil unions indeed is homophobic.

Anyway, this really illustrates the problems with defining racism, sexism etc. I still like my definition, ask the victims themselves.

Anyway, enough fun, back to work. Bye.

SJP

I agree that if they are against civil unions they have a problem - Now I know this will set you off - As I believe in God - He created all - then he created gay Men and Women - So who am I to question what God made.

 

[Mowich]

MowichBang on - I to know many kind hearted people that draw the line at Gay Marriage - That does not in any way make them bad people - they have their beliefs - they do not discriminate on sex - color -religion etc - But when it comes to Gay Marriage they are dead set against it - So are they wrong or are they right - To me they are right as they are sticking to their beliefs - I have no problem with Gay Marriage - I did have a problem with how Martin brought it in - pure politics meant to divide the public. Just my opinion though.

You are right, of course, Goob. They are sticking to their beliefs but then we get into the question of what those beliefs are based on???

You are right about Martin's mishandling of the entire matter too.

Have to sign off for a bit, my wee Bobbie needs to go outside which means I have a bit of shoveling to so she can get to her tree cover. :smile: