Banned!

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Hey that's interesting!

The handful of restaurants in Canada that serve seal received an unexpected boost last month, when the European Union banned imports of commercially caught Canadian seal products after a two-year debate that threatened to erupt into a trade war.

My count is one in Montreal, one East of Kamloops A place in Greenland and one in Norway. Four restaurants in three countries.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the reading. I would say that there may be some potential to connect some sort of a market with the Inuit hunt to use the whole animal and provide a source of income. But that would be a very limited market at best.

In contrast to restaurants serving beef, pork or chicken, I suggest you would starve to death while trying to find them.

This is why I say there is no market for them.

I don't have a problem at all with a hunt if the whole animal is used. I remain unmoved that a commercial hunt for the pelt alone is anything other than exploitation for welfare.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
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I didn't realize that in your world, the only place where people eat is in restaurants.

I posted restaurants because he asked for restaurants. I stopped at those 4 because the list was too long. Statistics on how many people eat seal in their homes will take a little longer to compile. Hang in there. I'm still researching.:lol:
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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  • Harp seal quota for 2009 hunt: 280,000.
  • Estimated size of the seal herd off Atlantic Canada: 5.6 million.
  • Price for best seal pelts in 2006: $105.
  • Price for best seal pelts in 2007: $62.
  • Price for best seal pelts in 2008: Over $30.
  • Expected price for seal pelts in 2009: $15.
Looks to me like the market is shrinking.

Something that I dislike about that link to the CBC news story is that it's not the whole story. Here is an example.

A 2002 report in the Canadian Veterinary Journal found that "the large majority of seals taken during this hunt … are killed in an acceptably humane manner."
This study found that 98 per cent of hunted seals it examined had been killed properly. The federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) cites this study among others as proof that the hunt opponents are wrong in their accusations of widespread cruelty.

But the actual report says this:


The conclusion is that the large majority
of seals taken during this hunt (at best, 98% in work reported here) are killed in an acceptably humane manner. However, the small proportion of animals that are not killed effectively justifies continued attention to this hunt on the part of the veterinary profession.



Another point left out of the CBC report is one that should make everyone want more investigation into the methods of the kill and the effectiveness of it being humane.




Again an except from the original article selectively quoted in the report:






In recent years, the CVMA again sent observers to
the hunt, following submission by some animal welfare groups of videotapes that were alleged to demonstrate clear instances of animal abuse.
The questions of interest to the CVMA Animal Welfare Committee were as


follows:







1) Can seals be killed humanely by the methods


in use?









2) If so, are the sealers using those methods


correctly, so as to achieve this, most or all of the time?









One issue of contention has been the “swimming reflex.”





When killed by acute trauma to the brain, harp seals, like other animals, often undergo a period of tremors or convulsions. These consist of strong lateral movements of the caudal portion of the body, described as “swimming reflex” (hereafter referred to as “reflex movements”),


which have been interpreted by some animal welfare advocates as implying persistence of conscious life.









The vast majority of observations at the seal hunt, either by representatives of the CVMA or by other veterinarians, are in the form of internal reports that are not easily accessible.





This article summarizes the activities of members of the CVMA to date in their attempts at evaluating objectively, from the perspective of animal


welfare, the killing methods used during the seal hunt.









The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not constitute an official position of the CVMA.







So the paper quoted in the report by the CBC falls into question rather than being an authoritive investigation of facts. From the CBC to the DFO to the CVMA I suggest there is a break in what is fact and what is opinion. What do you think?



Sorry about the mess with the quotes, it's a pdf format cut and pasted into the message here. :roll:

Here is a link to the actual CVMA report.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=339547&blobtype=pdf


 
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Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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I didn't realize that in your world, the only place where people eat is in restaurants.

Maybe you should broaden your horizons a little. If all you have to offer here is some snotty comments unrelated to the thread then why don't you go find something productive to do?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
Ten years ago a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem and no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-team.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
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Looks to me like the market is shrinking.

There's no doubt the market is shrinking. Propoganda can do some nasty work when it's wielded by a well oiled machine like the IFAW. Not that the market was very large to begin with. Have you looked at some of the animal rights webpages? They are littered with ideas and concepts on how to fight the 'good fight'. I read one earlier today that sounded like a war manuscript from Operation Sealskin.

So the paper quoted in the report by the CBC falls into question rather than being an authoritive investigation of facts. From the CBC to the DFO to the CVMA I suggest there is a break in what is fact and what is opinion. What do you think?

It's not beyond media outlets or special interest groups to report false information or to leave out important information that could skew a story. But not in this case. The IFAW on the other hand continue to use decades old photos and footage to promote their cause. They continue to push the idea that whitecoat clubbing is the norm when anyone in the know can tell you whitecoats have not been harvested for several decades now.

98% of the kills are humane. That's much better than the killing methods used in the abattoirs of Europe. Yet the IFAW hang on to that remaining 2% like the holy grail.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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You're a bit of a self important loser, aren't you?

Because I'm not raising to the bait? Have I missed you saying something relevant to the thread that might make any difference to my opinion or what the facts here are? Nope.

So bugger off if you have nothing good to say.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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There's no doubt the market is shrinking. Propoganda can do some nasty work when it's wielded by a well oiled machine like the IFAW. Not that the market was very large to begin with. Have you looked at some of the animal rights webpages? They are littered with ideas and concepts on how to fight the 'good fight'. I read one earlier today that sounded like a war manuscript from Operation Sealskin.

Yes there are extremists among animal rights activists. All animal rights activists aren't extremist.

It's not an extremist point of view that animals be slaughtered in a humane way.
It's not extremist that a country or union of countries like the EU agree to not allow commercially slaughtered seal skins to be imported to their countries when the rest of the animal is left on the ice.
It's not extreme to think that 6000 animals are skinned alive or simply whacked in the skull only to fall into the water and eventually drown.

That isn't a bunch of propaganda.

It's not beyond media outlets or special interest groups to report false information or to leave out important information that could skew a story. But not in this case. The IFAW on the other hand continue to use decades old photos and footage to promote their cause. They continue to push the idea that whitecoat clubbing is the norm when anyone in the know can tell you whitecoats have not been harvested for several decades now.

What's the point? The animals are still the same age, mostly their pups.

98% of the kills are humane. That's much better than the killing methods used in the abattoirs of Europe. Yet the IFAW hang on to that remaining 2% like the holy grail.

As I mentioned 2% is 6000 plus animals. For fur.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
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Edmonton
It's not an extremist point of view that animals be slaughtered in a humane way.

It is when the CVMA says 98% of the animals are killed in a humane way while other species are slaughtered in a less than humane manner. Why single out the seal industry? I know the answer to that question by the way. Just testing you.:p

What's the point? The animals are still the same age, mostly their pups.

Just wanted to point out the IFAW's incorrect assessment of the situation. Yes the beaters are still young but we still meet the requirements of the law when they are harvested. No whitecoats are harvested...period...full stop. Tell your buddies to stop posting inaccuracies.

As I mentioned 2% is 6000 plus animals. For fur.

6000 animals equates to 0.1% of the total population. We run over more gophers, squirrels, deer, moose and other wild animals on our roads and highways in a year than that.

Fact of the matter is, Europe and most of North America has been taken for a ride by the animal rights groups. You've been fed false information by these militant groups. You've been led astray by shocking pictures on the ice and Paul McCartney's addled mind after Heather Mills got through with him. If a Beatle says it's wrong it must be so. You've been so manipulated by political correctness you cannot think for yourselves anymore. Perish the thought of standing up for your country while other countries push you around. Canada, the land where we like to be liked and if the EU says we are savages by harvesting seals then by gawd we'll have to stop doing that because our image is being tarnished. Let the media, politicians and religious leaders keep on pushing their agenda and you'll go right along with them. Pathetic....
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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"It's nice to be nice to the nice" - Frank Burns (Larry Linville), M.A.S.H. lol

325,000 seals this year, I think I read. That's lots. You think one might make its way in this direction. Especially since Europe won't have any of it. But, I won't hold me breath. I would like to do my part to ensure that no meat is left to rot on the ice, though.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Ask IAM's. Is that why the stuff is twice the price of other dog foods?