A very scary PM: ‘I don’t believe that any taxes are good taxes’

[Machjo]

I'm just pointing out, SJP, that things aren't always as they seem. A country with high taxes does not necessarily have much ownership of property, and vice versa. Likewise, a country with low taxes does not necessarily have to give up control over the economy through the private sector. There are many, many shades between the so-called 'right' and 'left'. Some so-called 'right-wingers' might find the Liberal Party too far to the right of them on some issues, just as some on the left might find even the CPC too far to the left on some issues. Thigs aren't always as they seem. The NDP opposes 2-tier health care, yet socialist Sweden support its. In Canada, school vouchers are viewed as right wing nutcase ideas, while socialist Sweden is one fo the few countries that use that very system!

These are just some examples of how right and left labels can blind people from the truth of a matter.

 

[Machjo]

AND, anyone complaining about deficits that approves of $400,000 for the Toronto Gay Pride Day has their head firmly stuck up their own ass.....

My God man. And think of the NDP, that champion of the poor:roll:, defending this while some are sleeping in the streets. You could provide training in a trade or profession for a good few unemploeyed people struggling to find work right now with that money. Hmmmm... and who's the most vocal proponent of thsi again?

Oh, of course, the champion party of the poor!:roll:

 

[Machjo]

That's got a nice ring to it actually:

Champion Party of the Poor (CPP)

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I wasn't saying I supported it necessarily, but merely that it would be theoretically possible to a considerable degree. I also agree of course that public property is necessary too.

Actually though, Sweden has an interesting model. I remember reading once (and this surprised me) that while Sweden had more government control over the economy than the US, the government owned a smaller percentage of the national GDP in Sweden than the US.

That alone is proof that a socialist country can function without massive government ownership of property.

That is true about Sweden, Machjo. And who told you that Sweden is a Socialist country? It’s system is Social Democracy, not Socialism.

 

[Machjo]

That is true about Sweden, Machjo. And who told you that Sweden is a Socialist country? It’s system is Social Democracy, not Socialism.

Social democracy is a moderate form of socialism.

By the way, then, are you saying now that a voucher system is now social democratic? I thought in Canada it was supposed to be reich wing.

 

[Machjo]

So then by Canadian standards, is Sweden a far right country?

 

[darkbeaver]

If we had a functioning national bank we could perhaps eliminate taxation.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So then by Canadian standards, is Sweden a far right country?

Machjo, it is nonsense to compare one country with another in each and every aspect. No doubt some things are more right wing in Sweden, some more left wing compared to Canada.

As far as liberal – conservative spectrum is concerned, I would say that Canada and Sweden are at about the same level.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Social democracy is a moderate form of socialism.

Depends upon how you define Socialism, Machjo. I think Social Democracy is more Democracy than Socialism. I think Canada is also a Social Democracy. USA will come close to the Social Democratic model if they manage to pass the health care legislation (which appears unlikely as of now).

 

[Machjo]

Depends upon how you define Socialism, Machjo. I think Social Democracy is more Democracy than Socialism. I think Canada is also a Social Democracy. USA will come close to the Social Democratic model if they manage to pass the health care legislation (which appears unlikely as of now).

As far as the welfare state is concerned, Canada doewsn't even compare. Sure Sweden has shrunk its welfare state model to a considerable degree, yet even today all Swedes continue to have full access to free post-secondary education, whether university or trade schools, etc. Tehir cradle-to-grave welfare system still exists in all its forms. Looking at it that way, their government is very much to the left of ours.

Yet, they do have a two-tier healthcare system and have a voucher programme. They're moderate socialists who are far from dogmatic and always willing to experiment with various blendings of socialism and capitalism, unlike the dogmatism we see from Canada's NDP, opposed to a two-tier health system, opposed to anything capitalist. Or the Liberal Party, essentially just a tad to the left of the Conservatives, who are pretty much dogmatically anti all that is socialist no matter what.

 

[Machjo]

If we had a functioning national bank we could perhaps eliminate taxation.

That alone wouldn't cut it. What are you proposing? Print money for the government to spend? Sure if we don't mind a bit of inflation.

 

[AnnaG]

If things were perfect we wouldn't need gov'ts. lol

 

[taxslave]

If things were perfect we wouldn't need gov'ts. lol

Unfortunately we do but do we really need so much of it? Especially the overlaps between all three levels? And the number of bureaucrats that create unworkable rules just to justify their paycheques.

 

[sirlorenzo]

Harper is a douche

 

[Walter]

Harper is a douche

Oh yeah, well, Iggy's a douchbag; so there.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

If things were perfect we wouldn't need gov'ts. lol

That is not true Anna; there can be no civilization without government. We have had government since ancient times, when each tribe had a chief and he ruled the tribe, usually with an iron fist.

Then we have had kings, warlords of various kinds, dictatorships, democracies etc. But we do need some kind of government. Without government we will be back to caveman stage (without any money, any defense, any law and order).

 

[Tonington]

True enough....but the hypocrisy of the Liberals.....crying for more spending.....and complaining about deficits!!!

Harper could not have foreseen the collapse of his tax base....

Plenty of people, economists and politicians warned about cutting the GST. Ralph Goodale in 2006 said that Harper's spending promises, and tax cuts risked deficit, which is exactly what has now happened.

AND, anyone complaining about deficits that approves of $400,000 for the Toronto Gay Pride Day has their head firmly stuck up their own ass.....

?

 

[TenPenny]

'no taxes are good taxes.'

I find it somewhat hard to disagree with that sentiment. If you disagree with that statement, please list the taxes that you feel are 'good' taxes, and explain why they're good.

 

[TenPenny]

That is not true Anna; there can be no civilization without government. We have had government since ancient times, when each tribe had a chief and he ruled the tribe, usually with an iron fist.

Then we have had kings, warlords of various kinds, dictatorships, democracies etc. But we do need some kind of government. Without government we will be back to caveman stage (without any money, any defense, any law and order).

You just don't understand the original statement, do you?

If things were perfect, we wouldn't need gov't...then you go on to list things that aren't perfect as reasons why we need gov't and why the original statement isn't correct.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You just don't understand the original statement, do you?

If things were perfect, we wouldn't need gov't...then you go on to list things that aren't perfect as reasons why we need gov't and why the original statement isn't correct.

We will need government even if things were perfect, TenPenny. Even in a perfect world, how do you organize commerce, education, defense, law and order without government?

In a perfect world, without government, who becomes the police? The strongest? The most astute? The biggest? What do you do for money, do you barter?

If you are talking of a perfect world and Adam and Eve type of existence (hunter gathering society), it may be possible. Anything more advanced than that, you do need government, no matter how perfect your world is.

The only way you can do without government in a perfect world is only if you change the human nature and make that also perfect (even then it may be difficult). Otherwise, forget it.