Some of them, yes. I think he did a pretty good job of getting Germany back on its feet. What he did later I find objectionable. But then I don't think ANYONE is entirely "evil". Must be really dull living in a black and white world. You have my sympathies.
Are There Any Moral Absolutes?
- Thread starter SirJosephPorter
- Start date
Gimme a little slack here, its not that black and white. As a normal person, I obviously try to look for the good in each person before I look to the bad. There's definitely a lot of gray in the world, but there is black and white as well.
But do you look for the divine spark that dwells within even the most psychotic mass murderer. Hitler was, in spite of his many horrific deeds, a child of your god.
I have a two part response to this. First, look at the divine spark he clearly had for all to see. He was charismatic, passionate, intelligent, a leader, but he used it for the purpose of evil.
Second, as Hitler being the extreme end of the spectrum, it would be very difficult for any person to look past the evil and see a human that needs love demonstrated on them. But that's an extreme case.
In everyday life and with normal people its a lot easier to look past and realize someone is just as fallible as yourself. Then you can naturally demonstrate love to someone.
But some people have trouble though, and I'm willing to admit I was one of them. I use to completely ignore or be rude to beggars on the street. Then I was prompted to change my wayz and to look past and to give to EVERY beggar.
Just recently I was downtown with my BF, and when I handed some money to a fellow who looked pretty rough and addicted, I got an instant protest from my BF.
"Don't give him money! If you want to give, give it to someone more deserving!"
See what I mean? I use to be like that when I was younger and more foolish. But if ask me now...more deserving? No such thing.
BOTTLE OF WINE
The Fireballs
Rambling around this dirty old town,
Looking for nickels and dimes,
Times getting rough and I ain't got enough,
To buy me a bottle of wine.
CHORUS:
Bottle of wine,
Fruit of the vine,
When you gonna let me get sober,
Leave me alone, let me go home,
Let me go back and start over.
There's a little hotel just over the hill,
Dark as the coal in the mine,
The blankets are thin, but I lay there and grin,
'Cause I got a little bottle of wine.
(repeat CHORUS)
I got pains in my head and bugs in my bed,
And my pants are so worn they shine,
Out on the street I ask the people I meet,
"Won't you buy me a bottle of wine?"
(repeat CHORUS)
The preacher will preach and the teacher will teachhttp://www.lyricsdownload.com/the-fireballs-bottle-of-wine-lyrics.html#,
And the miner will dig in the mine,
But I'll go down the road trusting in God,
And huggin' my bottle of wine.
(repeat CHORUS)
The Fireballs
Rambling around this dirty old town,
Looking for nickels and dimes,
Times getting rough and I ain't got enough,
To buy me a bottle of wine.
CHORUS:
Bottle of wine,
Fruit of the vine,
When you gonna let me get sober,
Leave me alone, let me go home,
Let me go back and start over.
There's a little hotel just over the hill,
Dark as the coal in the mine,
The blankets are thin, but I lay there and grin,
'Cause I got a little bottle of wine.
(repeat CHORUS)
I got pains in my head and bugs in my bed,
And my pants are so worn they shine,
Out on the street I ask the people I meet,
"Won't you buy me a bottle of wine?"
(repeat CHORUS)
The preacher will preach and the teacher will teachhttp://www.lyricsdownload.com/the-fireballs-bottle-of-wine-lyrics.html#,
And the miner will dig in the mine,
But I'll go down the road trusting in God,
And huggin' my bottle of wine.
(repeat CHORUS)
That's actually quite simple. At least atheism proposes a challenge. But just to reiterate, if God exists, why would he make it a path of "good acts" of a way to come home to him, after he put us here as fallible humans? What type of a loving God would do that?
Path = flawed
Door = salvation
Its only ridiculous to you because of your presumptions about Christianity. You don't want to believe there is truth or wisdom in what it says.
At least your getting somewhere here Cliffy. Yes, if God doesn't exist, I'm not going to heaven or hell or neither is anyone else for that matter.
Why would Paul give up his prestige and power that he already had over the religious and exchange it for imprisonment, persecutions and other hardships?
Well... all you're really saying is that it's quite simple because you're right and eanassir's not. That's not an argument in support of your position, it's just an unsubstantiated claim, no better and no worse than what *he* claims to know. You'll have to do better than that.
And frankly, it seems perfectly sensible to me that if god exists, he would require that we live good lives, by our own choice, in order to find our way to him. The way you've set it up, you can be the worst, most immoral, disgusting, murderous, dangerous person on the planet for 50 years and be forgiven it all at a single stroke just by walking through the right door, and suffer no penalty for a prior life of dissipation and destruction. I'm not buying it.
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There is some truth and wisdom in the bible. There is some truth and wisdom in just about every book. That does not prove that it is all truth and wisdom. There is some really nasty stuff in the bible too. The god of the Jews was an insecure, jealous tyrant and suddenly Jesus comes along and he is all nice and warm and fuzzy, but to only those who now kiss JC's ass instead of the big G's ass. Way too silly for most discerning people to believe.
It depends entirely on how many parameters you want to set. If you don't set any the answer is no. But then you don't have anything either. Once you start setting parameters, then I would say the only absolute if you try to harm the fewest number of people first and benefit the most second. But after all is said and done there is an exception to every rule. So maybe there's not much to discuss.
Upon mulling this over some more, maybe the best answer is that it is a personal thing. Judging other's morals can put you on a slippery slope. It's probably best to have two sets of standards, a high one for yourself and a lower one for what you can accept from others, since you don't know the circumstances that drive them.
Oh we know the circumstances that drive them. Don't we.
One hundred years ago, two hundred years ago. Since there were white Anglo-Pilgrims and French Monastics from any number of Brotherhoods in Christ teaching the gospel to Native Heathens/Pagans we have sought as immigrants to this continent, to form a peoples with governments representing the name of God.
Yes there were immigrant heathens that did not live any of the Lord Jesus' rich Gospel, who took advantage of gold and spoils in land, women, and men, this did not glorify God.
Many of our continents conquerors did not accept the native aboriginals as valuable souls for Christ but really- was that their judgment to make? Or was it to expound the will of God, that being to share the Good News of salvaion from corner to corner, horizon to horizon!:fish:
What an ignorant and racist pile of crap. The former Pope apologized to the aboriginal people for assuming to bring god to a people who were already on familiar terms with the creator. Just because their spirituality does not fit into you fantasy view of reality does not make them any more or less right than you.
Heathen/Pagans! Your narrow self righteousness will get you into hell a lot faster than their beliefs ever will.
There may be a few of what you describe but I don't hang out with any of them. There is too many nice people around to concern yourself with those scmucks..:lol::lol:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That my friend is an uneducated judgemental statement!
The Pontiff apologized for any misguided Christian motivations that helped to decimate or eliminate Aboriginal cultures forcing them to live on unfamiliar desolate and often worthless pieces of smaller and smaller reservations. This sinful larceny often historically resulted in the stealing of land thus the breaking of treaties that were made in the name of God. He apologized for the taking of land for beads and trinkets, steel knives, cups and tools by Christians of good intent showing unfortunate respect.
Now our sinful government today too has forfeited those Godly high values today- after it has robbed generations of cultures of God given fishing and hunting rights and lifes sustainence, it seeks to expound on the human tragedy. Today it has exchanged human ruination for gambling casinos. You know Cliffy, drugs, alcohol, and greed have become the self pleasure of once proud tribes... as well as our society.
Cliffy. Where there is lust for man's mammon there is no place for God. You have read your bible, greek and hebrew lexicons. It is not just a novel.
No such thing as Pagans? Heathens? Cliffy, why, why did that golden bull which the jews melted all their riches down to build, all the while Moses was on the mountain collecting your commandments, evoke the wrath of God? Thats Easy even for you...
Thou shall have no other Gods before me.
There were and are still those idol Gods still today with a written history and philosophy, even artifacts. Viking, Indian, Chinese, etc. Now. Have the rules changed? The Pope did not imply what you imply he said.
For in his omnipotance, one essential test, is that the message of the Pope must NEVER make errant or contradict the Word of God. It is the test, for all of us, it will be YOUR Test as well Brother.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions brother, but the way is "narrow". It is NOT broad and uncontentious. If it was there would be no reason to say: Go out to all the earth and speak His Word to the Gentiles, as he said to Paul.
!!!Me!!! No I'm not against indian-aboriginal rights, I am not a racist. I marched for the AIM indian movement and the Civil Rights Act for desegregation of schools discrimination in employment and the voting rights act.
!!!Now!!! Don't be so full of yourself Cliffy let HIM in!!!
You still got time, he saved you from the impact of a logtruck going 60 mph... for a reason. Ask Him the Plan.:fish:
I am not quite sure of the fathers of Canada (I'd have to go back into the history books), but for damned sure the fathers of the US did NOT want a mixing of church and state.
I wouldn't bet on that. If there is a Christian god, it hasn't shown any particular tendency towards being reasonable. It so far appears to be immature, jealous, insecure, irrational, and sociopathic. Who knows what other "evils" it has in its "mind"?
!!Now!!! Don't be so full of yourself Cliffy let HIM in!!!
You still got time, he saved you from the impact of a logtruck going 60 mph... for a reason. Ask Him the Plan.
bluedog,
I know the plan. It was delivered in person. It sure as hell ain't what you think it is. The bible is a man made tale with no basis in any reality. Christianity has no basis in reality. I'm afraid you, my friend, are the one farting in the wind. The aboriginal people's are far closer to the Creator than christians ever will be. I guarantee you that if JC returned, the christians would be the first to demand his death because the truth would infuriate them.
You still got time, he saved you from the impact of a logtruck going 60 mph... for a reason. Ask Him the Plan.
bluedog,
I know the plan. It was delivered in person. It sure as hell ain't what you think it is. The bible is a man made tale with no basis in any reality. Christianity has no basis in reality. I'm afraid you, my friend, are the one farting in the wind. The aboriginal people's are far closer to the Creator than christians ever will be. I guarantee you that if JC returned, the christians would be the first to demand his death because the truth would infuriate them.
Bluedog- I'm still waiting to hear the official explanation as to how Jonah survived inside the whale for "three days and three nights"- and how did he know it was just one long night because I imagine it is fairly dark in the inside of a whale. If you can give a satisfactory answer for that one, then I have another about the flood. HOw was Noah able to gather up a female and male of every animal in the world in the time it takes a flood to materialize. Determining the gender of a lot of those animals would be a little time consuming in itself don't you think? I realize he had the three sons to help him........but still.