Gay Rights And The Bible

[earth_as_one]

If someone believes in the bible that's their business. If someone believes in the Qu'ran or the Torah, that's their business too. But as soon as someone tries to impose their religious beliefs on someone else, that's everyone's business.

If you believe homosexuality is wrong then I suggest you don't engage in the behavior. That's your right to choose. Other people have the same right to choose as you and they've made different choices. That's life. Get over it.

 

[AnnaG]

MHz

Are you saying that Jesus accepts the man that lies with mankind as with a woman and since man can to this and be saved through Jesus it is not considered a sin in the eyes of God?

So my post is valid

Definitely it is valid ..... valid nonsense.

 

[AnnaG]

The Bible is one of the greatest works of fiction to ever reach a bookstore. Consider, it was part gossip and part legend until parts of it were penned - in several different languages. Then it was translated and revised and modernized - then interpreted by the reader

I disagree. It is only the most popular, not the greatest. Poorly written and plum full of contradictions, equivocal comments, and just straight out crappy pseudo-science.

 

[AnnaG]

Dude, it's only a guideline! :roll:

And a poor one at that. At best the entire message of the Bible could be printed simply, lucidly, and unambiguously in a 2 page pamphlet.

 

[AnnaG]

This.."The Bible is one of the greatest works of fiction to ever reach a bookstore."
I'm simply saying I hope for your sake that view is not carved in stone.
The how's and why's you arrived at this conclusion (as it stands today) are unimportant. If you die (and you know it) and somebody brings you back from that place (and you know it) I'm not sure holding onto the view you have today is the wisest path to take (at that time).

That's a gargantuan if, but I am sure that people who can actually reason would accept the new data and amend their thoughts accordingly rather than plant their feet and balk in the face of evidence.

 

[AnnaG]

If someone believes in the bible that's their business. If someone believes in the Qu'ran or the Torah, that's their business too. But as soon as someone tries to impose their religious beliefs on someone else, that's everyone's business.

If you believe homosexuality is wrong then I suggest you don't engage in the behavior. That's your right to choose. Other people have the same right to choose as you and they've made different choices. That's life. Get over it.

Exactly. The "Golden Rule" beats the 10 commandments every which way to Sunday: treat others as you would have them treat you, AKA "live and let live", "what goes around comes around", and "what ye sow, so shall ye reap". Mr. Liberalman, EG, seems to spew contempt for people so it looks like that's what he gets back. The "Golden Rule" works.

 

[MHz]

when I came back BEFORE they zapped me?

LOL, ever think that is why they zapped you??? Just kidding.
You don't believe in the Bible, so what? Even you must have some 'types of people' you don't hand around with after work. A serial killer would be considered a sinner in the Bible, does that mean you would go out of your way to make friends with them?

And no that was not the call back from the grave the verse mentions. You will see the grave in your future, when He calls you from there you never go back.

God is going to gitcha Wolfy!

Actually it is something we will all go through at some point or another.

Ro:3:10:
As it is written,
There is none righteous,
no,
not one:


Heb:12:5:
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son,
despise not thou the chastening of the Lord,
nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb:12:6:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb:12:7:
If ye endure chastening,
God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb:12:8:
But if ye be without chastisement,
whereof all are partakers,
then are ye bastards,
and not sons.

 

[MHz]

Poorly written and plum full of contradictions, equivocal comments, and just straight out crappy pseudo-science.

Since not all would agree with that statement perhaps it is just your personal ability to understand the words in the given context.

Exactly. The "Golden Rule" beats the 10 commandments every which way to Sunday: treat others as you would have them treat you, AKA "live and let live", "what goes around comes around", and "what ye sow, so shall ye reap". Mr. Liberalman, EG, seems to spew contempt for people so it looks like that's what he gets back. The "Golden Rule" works.

They are one and the same.
Ro:13:9:
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[AnnaG]

Since not all would agree with that statement perhaps it is just your personal ability to understand the words in the given context.

I don't expect everyone to agree with it. I expect rather the reverse. There are always some people around who argue in the face of the evidence. If the Bible was so clear-cut, why have people taken a couple thousand years to date in studying it's meanings so hard and still can't agree? Are you some sort of authority on the contexts of the Bible or just have your own interpretation?
As I said, the message the Bible seems to have been intended to convey could be boiled down to a 2 page pamphlet if people had intended it to be clear.

They are one and the same.
Ro:13:9:
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

What are one and the same?

 

[Unforgiven]

Actually it is something we will all go through at some point or another.

Not me. I've already taken care of all of that. Your God, as real and wonderful and furious as he is, has been relegated to the mythical legends like all those other Gods before him. Sorry, but that is how it is. Don't let that slow you down though.

 

[karrie]

Jesus came and formed a new covenant. Leviticus is irrelevant in Christianity. We eat pork, we don't quarantine our women and douse the house in holy water when they get their periods... there are a huge number of things we let drop because Christianity is based on the New Testament. The only time people listen to the book of Leviticus is to pop out some hate filled bull about gays.

Leviticus was all about keeping people clean and healthy as possible. Now we have running water to take care of that. Easy peasy.

I suggest you listen to Anna and pay a little more attention to the basis of Christianity, OR, as an alternative, look into Judaism if you want to live according to the Old Testament.

 

[Cliffy]

They are one and the same.
Ro:13:9:
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

They are all one and the same because they are just rewording of the law of Karma: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. No god necessary.

 

[MHz]

I don't expect everyone to agree with it. I expect rather the reverse. There are always some people around who argue in the face of the evidence. If the Bible was so clear-cut, why have people taken a couple thousand years to date in studying it's meanings so hard and still can't agree?

Perhaps one important reason is that in past times it was read by a few and taught to many (who did no reading). Today there are more readers and they do challenge what traditional teachings proposed. Tearing down false teachings does create some disarray, so what, you end up with a more accurate picture on what God intended us to understand.
Evidence such as???

Are you some sort of authority on the contexts of the Bible or just have your own interpretation?

With the advent of an e-bible it doesn't take any special talent to find verses that relate to each other. A search for the word grace brings up a certain number of verses. Read those and you have a basic understanding of that word means. L Read the passages that those verses come from and you should have improved your understanding even more (especially when more than one passage has the words 'God forbid' included). That method can certainly be used for most topics the Bible covers. The feast for the eagles and beasts of the field is a described event in Revelation. That makes it a future event. There are a few places in the OT that deals with prophecies that deal with the day of the Lord that cover that very event also. Put all those together and you have as much info as God had put into writing.
I'm more a dedicated reader that believes all that was written. It could be argued if that is so

As I said, the message the Bible seems to have been intended to convey could be boiled down to a 2 page pamphlet if people had intended it to be clear.

Really....you may have missed some of the finer points in the 'how not to be deceived' section. The issue of salvation could certainly be made into a two pager.
What is it and is there a plan already in place to make sure it comes about as planned. Yes there is, not everybody is interested in the finer details. This verse excludes the Bible ever being reduced in size (and therefore complexity).

Isa:42:9:
Behold,
the former things are come to pass,
and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.

What are one and the same?

Treat your neighbors kindly and the commandments they cover are not the whole 10. Christ's 1st Law is about belief in God so the neighbor rule is more properly the 2nd golden rule.

Christians are not under the exact same 'conditions'. For instance a verse says if you desire a woman who is not your wife in thought alone you are considered to have committed a sin. OT was under physical acts and harsh punishment, NT is under thoughts also can find you guilty of sin. That isn't widely preached so I doubt many would be repenting such acts (within Christianity itself)

 

[lone wolf]

OT was under physical acts and harsh punishment, NT is under thoughts also can find you guilty of sin. That isn't widely preached so I doubt many would be repenting such acts (within Christianity itself)

Why sure they'd have to bring impure thoughts into it. That's what head games are all about. If you can play on peoples' guilt, you're guaranteed to sell more tickets on the train to Heaven. What does it matter if you have people moved to the point where life isn't worth living. You can make suicidal thoughts a sin so you can extort more tithe. Church isn't for the comfort of man. It's for the profit of Church.

 

[MHz]

Jesus came and formed a new covenant. Leviticus is irrelevant in Christianity. We eat pork, we don't quarantine our women and douse the house in holy water when they get their periods... there are a huge number of things we let drop because Christianity is based on the New Testament. The only time people listen to the book of Leviticus is to pop out some hate filled bull about gays.

Leviticus was all about keeping people clean and healthy as possible. Now we have running water to take care of that. Easy peasy.

I suggest you listen to Anna and pay a little more attention to the basis of Christianity, OR, as an alternative, look into Judaism if you want to live according to the Old Testament.

What would you say are the definitions of adulterers and fornicators as used in places like this verse.?
M't:15:19:
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,
murders,
adulteries,
fornications,
thefts,
false witness,
blasphemies:

They would seem to include two separate groups of people. Adulterers are men and women who engage in intimate sex when not married to each other and fornicators could include all other situations, gay sex being one on the list.

Bringing this topic up (repeatedly) would seem to be more in the lines with gays bashing God (and therefore all Scripture) for His totally wrong view on what society can and cannot do. In this age especially.

 

[MHz]

They are all one and the same because they are just rewording of the law of Karma: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. No god necessary.

Karma would only seem to cover a person while he is drawing breath. God , on the other hand can and will follow a person after death.
There is no 'opposite reaction' for sin, we have our social laws that punish sinners once they sin, there is no blanket protection from sinners that prevents the sins from happening. The only course this world is on the gap between the haves and the have not's is expanding. Karma has nothing to do with willful manipulation, be it by organized religion (corporation status) or any other form of 'supposed authority'.

Why sure they'd have to bring impure thoughts into it. That's what head games are all about. If you can play on peoples' guilt, you're guaranteed to sell more tickets on the train to Heaven. What does it matter if you have people moved to the point where life isn't worth living. You can make suicidal thoughts a sin so you can extort more tithe. Church isn't for the comfort of man. It's for the profit of Church.

The Churches preach grace will cover all sins, that isn't true. Once grace is known a person cannot have grace cover a sin when they sin because they are convinced grace will cover it. Reading it for yourself would certainly clear up the price of the ticket, it's free and it is a one-way ticket.

Not me. I've already taken care of all of that. Your God, as real and wonderful and furious as he is, has been relegated to the mythical legends like all those other Gods before him. Sorry, but that is how it is. Don't let that slow you down though.

NP

 

[JLM]

Exactly. The "Golden Rule" beats the 10 commandments every which way to Sunday: treat others as you would have them treat you, AKA "live and let live", "what goes around comes around", and "what ye sow, so shall ye reap". Mr. Liberalman, EG, seems to spew contempt for people so it looks like that's what he gets back. The "Golden Rule" works.

Yep- the Golden Rule handles pretty well everything, it's just plain old common sense. You can abide by that without necessarily being religious. I know think the average person needs to go to the Bible to figure out what's right and wrong, if it's detrimental to others it's probably wrong, if it's beneficial it's probably right. A lot of people seem to think that sitting in a church for an hour on a Sunday makes them better people. Biggest hypocrites I met in life went to Church every Sunday and by 2 o'clock the guy was drunk and bad mouthing everyone in the community. The drunk part I don't object to, it just didn't improve him..........:lol::lol:

 

[Liberalman]

Leviticus is irrelevant in Christianity. We eat pork, we don't quarantine our women

Karrie

Are you saying then that the ten commandments does not apply since it is in the old testament?

Since Jesus saves us all then why use the old testement, we're saved

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...why use the old testement...

Because the New Testament says the laws given in the Old Testament apply forever, so presumably we should keep a record of them:

Matthew 5: 18
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There are a dozen more passages that suggest the law is forever. And of course it also says the contrary in at least 10 places, such as:

Romans 7: 4 - 6
Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ...But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Take your pick, believe anything you like, you can probably find support for it somewhere in the Bible. It doesn't really make sense to use the Bible as an authority, it's too easy to cherry pick, it's often wrong and inconsistent, and it's mostly fiction anyway. Personally, I think citing scripture as a justification for a position is the last refuge of people who can't think of anything else.

 

[JLM]

Because the New Testament says the laws given in the Old Testament apply forever, so presumably we should keep a record of them:

Matthew 5: 18
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There are a dozen more passages that suggest the law is forever. And of course it also says the contrary in at least 10 places, such as:

Romans 7: 4 - 6
Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ...But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Take your pick, believe anything you like, you can probably find support for it somewhere in the Bible. It doesn't really make sense to use the Bible as an authority, it's too easy to cherry pick, it's often wrong and inconsistent, and it's mostly fiction anyway. Personally, I think citing scripture as a justification for a position is the last refuge of people who can't think of anything else.

If someone passed a law and told me it "appied forever", I might be a tad skeptical.