Too Fat To Work - Need More Benefit Money

[Unforgiven]

Anorexia is a psychological disorder more than a physical one. In its simplest terms, yes the people just need to eat more but it obviously goes beyond that. They can't even see their bodies realistically. Overeating isn't the same in terms of the almost immediate physical toll or the psychological issues.

Yeah, a psychological disorder. Do you think that someone who over eats to this point isn't dealing with some sort of psychological disorder? We're not talking about twenty pounds over weight. Security issue, self loathing, all kinds of stuff makes people obese.
Not just laziness and over indulgence.

One thing is for sure, fat people are a target for others to dump on.
People who prey on the emotions of the public for publicity aren't the example of what fat people are about. Nothing wrong with a little joking around but often it simply goes too far.

That's true, but it doesn't change the fact that at least some members of this family could work.

Once you hit about 40 BMI you get pretty limited as to what you can do. Then of course there is the problem of getting someone to hire you. While there are still people who won't allow Black or Brown people to move into upper executive levels in some companies, there are also some who won't hire fatties. Doesn't matter how smart of efficient you are when someone has written you off after seeing what you look like.

I'm sure they are unhappy and have emotional reasons for eating. I'm sure it is a lifelong issue that will be difficult for them to change.

For some it's like an addiction. Most junkies and alkys will tell you they wish they weren't the way they are. But they are at that point powerless to change. They need help to get through it and for some people who are morbidly obese, it takes a number of dedicated people to help them make the changes in their lifestyle in order to regain their health. But that costs money. Lots of money. Not to mention, there is a pretty big industry that does nothing other than sell fat to people who can't control themselves. That makes things a little more difficult.

We wouldn't have gastric bypass procedures if losing weight was easy. I'm even sure heredity plays a part in their weight. That doesn't make them unable to work. Millions of obese people go to their jobs every day. I'm not suggesting they dig ditches for a living because they obviously have physical limitations, but there are a lot of jobs out there which require minimal physical exertion.

Yeah like some lame reality show. Which I suspect the who article is geared for. Imagine the glorious result when we all tune into to the final episode to see that they have over come this and with the help of make overs and stylists and surgery become part of the beautiful culture. We can all take heart that there is hope for us yet.

Sure they can work. Don't fall for the gimmick in the story.

Actually BMI isn't always so accurate in determining if someone is healthy or not. If you are muscular, you'll have a high BMI even if your overall size is normal and you're healthy. A smaller person without muscles can be a normal BMI even if their lifestyle habits are terrible and they have a nice potbelly which is priming them for health problems later in life. BMIs also ignore the more important issue of where you carry your fat. We know now that abdominal fat is much more harmful to health than fat carried around your hips or arms or whatever. So two people with the same BMI who are shaped differently can have very different health issues.

You're right it's not always accurate. But as part of a diagnosis by a doctor it's a much better indicator more often than simply weight alone.

The point I am making in all of this is that people shouldn't be fooled by tabloid news to vilify a group of people who for the most part already have enough trouble as it is.

 

[Machjo]

I guess the Ministry's figure that if they (the gov't) controlled all the money these people got, the people won't know how to handle money when they get a job. The Ministry has made great progress at keeping the handouts low and making sure it's not a comfortable process for those who are able to work to collect a chq.
They should mandate free birthcontrol for recipients.

Valid point, but only once we're sure they can handle it. if a kid doesn't know addition, we don't teach him algebra. Of course he'll have to learn algebra eventually, but one step at a time.

If a person shows an inability to handle his money, then we don't just give it to him right away. We build him up until he reaches the point at which he can handle his money, and then start giving him money, step by setp until finally he's out into the work force again. Just like teaching algebra, one step at a time. No point giving him money if he can't handle it. Even if he could handle it at one point in the past, we never know his current circumstances owing to life changes, trauma, etc.

 

[lone wolf]

I wonder if a sweet kid in a wheelchair or a stick-thin guy with an oxygen tank was depicted would they have so much judgement heaped upon them? Picture this, a very active man suddenly introduced to a sedentary lifestyle by an accident. The appetite is still there ... but it isn't burned in the same way any more. What names can folks call him?

In the OP, it's an easy assumption they're scamming it or just don't know any better. Still, does it make it right because the sight may offend a Vogue state of mind?

 

[Machjo]

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Social services don't have the resources to do everything FOR people. If you want to learn how to lose weight, how about going to a library and getting a book that tells you how? Libraries are free and they're open on weekends. People are making this situation much more complicated than it really is.

I've learnt many things through books and the internet. But don't overestimate people's instincts. We are creatures of habit. If a person has never learnt to work, or look information up, he might not know. Let's teach him how to work, then make him work at least part time for his assistance. In the rest of the time, we teach him how to use a library, how to learn for himself, yes, how to ties his shoes as you put it.

In the end, that will be cheaper than 12 years on social assistance.

I was lucky, as you were, to have good parents and teachers to teach me how to teach myself. But unfortunately there are parents and teachers who don't care and students who slip through the cracks. How else do we explain the true story of a grade 12 student who couldn't understand why Australia is not under water if water flows downhill and Australia is at the bottom of the map? How did her previous teachers not catch on? After twelve years in school, the first time a teacher had figured out that she didn't understand that the world map is but a manmade symbolic representation of the earth which could just as easily have been done with the South on top and the North at the bottom, was when she'd reached 12th grade.

Clearly if such persons should pas through the cracks, it's conceivable that some highschol graduates genuinely don't know how to live in our society. They may very well need to be spoonfed temporarily to help them get on their feet. With the attitude that their lack of quality educaiton is their fault, we're relegating them to permanent dependence and then wondering why they're still on assistance 12 years later. We'd save much money if we'd recognized the problem and helped them instead of just blaming them. Who cares whose fault it is. Let's just deal with the problem and get them back to work without the judgementalism. The sooner they're working, not only do we save our money, but they start paying taxes into the system too. Bigger tax base.

Which do we prefer, our attitude and them permanently on social assistance, or more understanidng and actually getting them off assistance?

 

[Machjo]

I wonder if a sweet kid in a wheelchair or a stick-thin guy with an oxygen tank was depicted would they have so much judgement heaped upon them? Picture this, a very active man suddenly introduced to a sedentary lifestyle by an accident. The appetite is still there ... but it isn't burned in the same way any more. What names can folks call him?

In the OP, it's an easy assumption they're scamming it or just don't know any better. Still, does it make it right because the sight may offend a Vogue state of mind?

I agree that it's not up to us to judge that family. And yes, some here have made some unbecoming comments about them. I'm not judging them thugh, but pitty the fact that no one tried to figure out the source of the problem in twelve years. Had we really cared about them, we would have figured out the problem long ago and they would likely not have been on assistance for more than one or two years at most. Instead, all we did is keep giving them money. That's not their fault, but ours. We equate giving them money with helping them. Or maybe they do have some special medical condition that was not revealed in the article. Possible, in which case who are we to judge then. But I was just going by the article, and based on that, I get the impression that had they been taught properly, they could have been off assistance within two years.

 

[VanIsle]

I think some people here are suggesting that these people are being dumped on because they are over-weight. In today's world - lots of people are over-weight. The funny thing is that I see more heavy set people working today than ever before. Many severely over-weight people didn't stand a chance at getting a job because of the way they looked. Then over the past couple of years there were so many jobs, everyone was hiring everyone. It was like a lucky break for the over-weight. Proof positive that over-weight didn't mean they didn't have a brain. Everyone is pretty used to working with very over-weight people or simply being around or friends with over-weight people. Lots of married couples today are one thin, one fat person. More often than not, it is the woman who is quite over-weight. I was glad to see that over-weight people were finally finding their place.
So I think any one of us can see that this story is more about people who are using weight as an excuse to be lazy and that's what it's about here. It's not about the fact that they are heavy. It's about the fact they are lazy.

 

[Machjo]

I think some people here are suggesting that these people are being dumped on because they are over-weight. In today's world - lots of people are over-weight. The funny thing is that I see more heavy set people working today than ever before. Many severely over-weight people didn't stand a chance at getting a job because of the way they looked. Then over the past couple of years there were so many jobs, everyone was hiring everyone. It was like a lucky break for the over-weight. Proof positive that over-weight didn't mean they didn't have a brain. Everyone is pretty used to working with very over-weight people or simply being around or friends with over-weight people. Lots of married couples today are one thin, one fat person. More often than not, it is the woman who is quite over-weight. I was glad to see that over-weight people were finally finding their place.
So I think any one of us can see that this story is more about people who are using weight as an excuse to be lazy and that's what it's about here. It's not about the fact that they are heavy. It's about the fact they are lazy.

So what's the solution?

Teach them a work ethic? Cut their assistance and let them work or starve?

It's nice to blame, but that alone is worth nothing without offering solutions.

 

[Machjo]

I'd say offer them workfare if available as a possible solution. It would provide them with job experience, on-the-job training, and a reference for their resume. it's a start.

By the way, many who are stuck on assistance are so because of lack of Canadian work experience or Canadian certification.

For some Canadian-born, they might lack any experience or certification, which thus keeps them out of a job, thus preventing them from getting experience, and so eventualy give up. Heck, if i were unemployed for 1 month, I might still be printing resumes and going for interviews. 1 Year, I'd give up. 12 years, It'd be a habit. Would I be lazy? Yes. But then again, it would be a laziness ingrained through a habit that may or may not have been my fault. But even if it wre my fault, of what use is it to just say I''m lazy. After 12 years without work, I'd be lazy, demotivated, probably even depressed, bored, and lacking total confidence in my ability to even find work, and so not even try owing to that lack of confidence.

So which would be more useful or productive:

1. To just stand there and blame me and keep giving me a check, or

2. Give me work experience, a reference, build my confidence in my ability to work, and as my work skills improve, eventualy i would be able to stand on my feet again.

So which would it be. To build me up or to just make me feel like sh!t! Which would be more likely to get me back to work?

 

[VanIsle]

So what's the solution?

Teach them a work ethic? Cut their assistance and let them work or starve?

It's nice to blame, but that alone is worth nothing without offering solutions.

But I'm not blaming. Not blaming anyone regarding anything. I'm saying these people are lazy. I'm saying "fat" has nothing to do with it. Now that the problem has been allowed to go on for so long, the parents need re-training in everything. Dad needs to learn to go to some kind of a job. Mom needs to go to cooking school and learn that meat pies and french fries is not only a fat meal, it's not particularly healthy. I can probably state right out that it's totally un-healthy. Their daughters have been conditioned by them to use the system. If you hang out with a group of people that use the system, don't work, don't do anything for themselves and just hang out each and everyday doing anything they want (or basically - doing nothing at all) and it seemed okay to you, you (or me) would be doing it too. Laziness is actually "contagious". Now most of us have a lazy day or two and then get on with our lives. They've had more than a few lazy years. They will never learn to change on their own and they won't learn in a few weeks. It is going to take months to re-train this family that there is pride in achieving something in this world and in being responsible for ones self. I truly hope they get the help they need.

 

[Machjo]

But I'm not blaming. Not blaming anyone regarding anything. I'm saying these people are lazy. I'm saying "fat" has nothing to do with it. Now that the problem has been allowed to go on for so long, the parents need re-training in everything. Dad needs to learn to go to some kind of a job. Mom needs to go to cooking school and learn that meat pies and french fries is not only a fat meal, it's not particularly healthy. I can probably state right out that it's totally un-healthy. Their daughters have been conditioned by them to use the system. If you hang out with a group of people that use the system, don't work, don't do anything for themselves and just hang out each and everyday doing anything they want (or basically - doing nothing at all) and it seemed okay to you, you (or me) would be doing it too. Laziness is actually "contagious". Now most of us have a lazy day or two and then get on with our lives. They've had more than a few lazy years. They will never learn to change on their own and they won't learn in a few weeks. It is going to take months to re-train this family that there is pride in achieving something in this world and in being responsible for ones self. I truly hope they get the help they need.

Ithought you were blaming them for the laziness. i'd misunderstood you.Sorry about that.

I totally agree with you there. Even devout worker who fails to find work within a month will start to lose confidence in his job search. After a year, he'll certainly become lazy. Again, not necessarily their fault, but a problem none-the-less.

Thanks for clearing that up, and I fuly agree with you that it would be preferable to retrain them than to just let them stay on the system. They will feel happier aobut it too. Once they start to work, they can feel proud of their accomplishments, and we never know, they could turn out to be capable contributors to their commmunities one day as volunteers, etc... if we just give them the training they need.

 

[petros]

I'm too skinny to pay taxes!

 

[Machjo]

I'm too skinny to pay taxes!

Hey, I'm pretty skinny too. Would I qualify for that tax break?

 

[Serryah]

Being overweight - like many have said - comes from other issues than just laziness. Genetics, lack of understanding what's right to eat and what isn't, mental issues, even your work can cause someone to be overweight, or add to a pre-existing problem.

I work all night shifts - five days a week - and though I don't each that much, my weight gradually increased since the time I began my job years ago. Now it's to the point I have to readjust my life. It's hard; I sleep most of the day and am at work all night. I only have a few hours (sometimes barely two or three) where I can be up, prepare a meal and get all my other things done, like mail and groceries and so on.

Ironically I lose weight when on vacation and not only sleep at night and be up during the day, but I am able to "Graze" during the day.

There are lots of factors that can cause someone to gain weight. But I agree with others, it's not an excuse to not work. It makes the work harder because of stress on the knees and back, but it can be done.

 

[TenPenny]

The main reason that people are overweight is because they don't try to not be overweight. Sure, some people need help to overcome it, but it's a decision to make.

I just don't have much sympathy for people who eat 3000 calories a day, and then complain because they're overweight. What did you think, the weight fairy comes by at night and sticks fat on your body? Join the dots, you can figure it out.

Whine snivel, I'm a victim. Sure, but you don't have to keep being one. We're all victims of one thing or another. Don't let it rule your life, and stop looking for someone else to blame for everything.

 

[petros]

Hey, I'm pretty skinny too. Would I qualify for that tax break?

I don't see why not? Those who make the effort to stay healthy and tread lightly on our health care system should be rewarded with a tax credit or a cash rebate.

I'm also all for heavy regs or taxing the snot out of garbage foods. If it doesn't benefit the body it is a toxin and there is no reason for toxins being sold to our kids on the street corner.

Face it sugar is one of those toxins and that god awful aspartame is a neural toxin. Did you know aspartame turns to methyl alcohol in your body once insulin gets a hold of it and further reduces it to formaldehyde? Don't forget folks, alcohol in any form is very addictive and is a depressant.

There is no love in this world when Little Debbie becomes mortally obese Debbie, loses a foot to diabetes and is an alcoholic at age 7 and not by choice or lack of parental care.

To make matter's worse if Debbie drinks enough Diet Coke to go blind she will be rewarded with an iPod from all her iCoke points.

At least she'll still have tunes.

If Coke is sponsoring the Olympics it must be healthy!

 

[Unforgiven]

I don't see why not? Those who make the effort to stay healthy and tread lightly on our health care system should be rewarded with a tax credit or a cash rebate.

I'm also all for heavy regs or taxing the snot out of garbage foods. If it doesn't benefit the body it is a toxin and there is no reason for toxins being sold to our kids on the street corner.

Face it sugar is one of those toxins and that god awful aspartame is a neural toxin. Did you know aspartame turns to methyl alcohol in your body once insulin gets a hold of it and further reduces it to formaldehyde? Don't forget folks, alcohol in any form is very addictive and is a depressant.

There is no love in this world when Little Debbie becomes mortally obese Debbie, loses a foot to diabetes and is an alcoholic at age 7 and not by choice or lack of parental care.

To make matter's worse if Debbie drinks enough Diet Coke to go blind she will be rewarded with an iPod from all her iCoke points.

At least she'll still have tunes.

If Coke is sponsoring the Olympics it must be healthy!

And yet good healthy food is much more expensive. Maybe it would be better to simply reduce the costs of good food to the point where it can cover the same amount of meals that eating unhealthy covers over the course of a month.

 

[petros]

I don't see why not? Those who make the effort to stay healthy and tread lightly on our health care system should be rewarded with a tax credit or a cash rebate.

I'm also all for heavy regs or taxing the snot out of garbage foods. If it doesn't benefit the body it is a toxin and there is no reason for toxins being sold to our kids on the street corner.

Face it sugar is one of those toxins and that god awful aspartame is a neural toxin. Did you know aspartame turns to methyl alcohol in your body once insulin gets a hold of it and further reduces it to formaldehyde? Don't forget folks, alcohol in any form is very addictive and is a depressant.

There is no love in this world when Little Debbie becomes mortally obese Debbie, loses a foot to diabetes and is an alcoholic at age 7 and not by choice or lack of parental care.

To make matter's worse if Debbie drinks enough Diet Coke to go blind she will be rewarded with an iPod from all her iCoke points.

At least she'll still have tunes.

If Coke is sponsoring the Olympics it must be healthy!

Live the olympic dream with Coke and McDonalds.

Who wants to nominate the obese kid in the wheelchair and be their pusher? There is a burger and a Coke in it for ya.

Vancouver 2010 Olympic Torch Relay Nomination | Join the Movement | iCoke.ca

 

[petros]

And yet good healthy food is much more expensive. Maybe it would be better to simply reduce the costs of good food to the point where it can cover the same amount of meals that eating unhealthy covers over the course of a month.

It nearly broke my bank account buying vegetable seeds a couple weks ago.

Pulling the cord on the rototiller might give me a heart attack as well.

 

[petros]

A hydroponic garden uses the same space and energy and costs the same to set up as a TV and cheaper than cable to buy nutrients monthly and seeds but would supply all your fresh veg needs.

LED lighting is super cheap to run and very reasonable to purchase. 90 Watts of energy will feed a family of 4. There is no excuse for not growing your own food saving ****loads of money on energy and food costs.

You don't need to drive to the store to buy veg from 2000 miles away and you don't need a fridge to store your fresh foods either when harvesting daily.

 

[lone wolf]

It nearly broke my bank account buying vegetable seeds a couple weks ago.

Pulling the cord on the rototiller might give me a heart attack as well.

What about renters? What say you bring your tiller over and till my rock?