Russian Planes Approach Canadian Airspace

[Tyr]

The North Pole is not ... repeat NOT ... Canadian territory. If you're so brilliant, look at a map. Two questions:

1/...Is there any land within 12 miles?
2/...Do you even know where the North Pole is?

Northwest Passage? That can be argued ... and claimed as Canadian water.

1/...Change the 12 miles to 200 and you'd be a touch closer to being correct

The Northwest Passage is and has been for the last 140 yrs, Canadian waters. There have been a few weak and lame objections from Russia, USA and Denmark), but htey are pretty much discounted as political posturing. The real issue is the mass beyond Canada's 200 mile inclusion zone (i.e. Alpha Ridge and Lomonosov Ridge) and how far they extend into Canadian waters

 

[Francis2004]

Anyone find it a bit remarkable for a 'first world country' with over 2 million barrels of oil exported a day would be a hair above Tonga in military expenditure?

No.


Hmm.. Possibly because countries with a higher expenditure to GDP have a higher percieved threat....

Who does Canada percieve as a threat? Nobody today. 8-9 yrs from today - United States is the only real threat on the horizon

But what do you think brought down the Berlin wall

a backhoe?

Tyr, I didn't answer Rich because nothing can ever make him happy unless we would have superior military to the US, a bigger economy to the US and more population to the US.. See a pattern here and I agree with MHz that he should have a US Flag not Canadian to his name..

Now as far as the Canadian Military

• Today: More than 2,900 members of the Armed Forces are deployed overseas.
• Second World War: More than one million served and approximately 45,000 died.
• First World War: Almost 620,000 Canadians served in First World War and 66,000 died.
• Canada in NATO: Of NATO's 26 member countries, Canada is...First in land area (9,093,507 sq. km), and sixth in total military spending ($13 billion)

CBC News In Depth: Canada's Military

This as you pointed out with no immediate border Country other then the US.

 

[#juan]

Hey Juan, you're so isolated up there you mistake someone who can put facts in your face you don't like as a troll.
Canada spends 1.1% of it's GDP on it's military. Your tied with the Central African Republic and just ahead of Bhutan.

Military expenditures - percent of GDP - Country Comparison

Anyone find it a bit remarkable for a 'first world country' with over 2 million barrels of oil exported a day would be a hair above Tonga in military expenditure?
Who wouldn't want to be free of military alliance responsibilities and have no military budget? But what do you think brought down the Berlin wall or broke up the Soviet Union? Norway's military budget as a ratio of GDP is much higher than Canada's. I wonder why that is?
Rather than be called a troll again in the same thread, I will bite my tongue on the concept of Canadian conscription.

First of all, Tonga has a GDP of $219 million, Norway $246 billion and Canada's is $1.12 trillion so your statement and numbers are meaningless. I don't think we spend nearly enough money on our military but If you look at the Canadian casualties in Afghanistan compared with countries like Germany and France and other countries that have a greater population than Canada, we must be just unlucky.

 

[L Gilbert]

Just out of curiosity, do planes actually have to be on the ground in order to be scrambled rather than on routine patrol or on exercises?

 

[lone wolf]

1/...Change the 12 miles to 200 and you'd be a touch closer to being correct

A touch closer for economic sake - like fishing or oil exploration. The Bear had neither net nor drilling probe. For actual territorial water, the hard line is still twelve miles.

I know.... You're some sort of military expert.

 

[Tyr]

Just out of curiosity, do planes actually have to be on the ground in order to be scrambled rather than on routine patrol or on exercises?

Yes. That's the scrambling part. They scramble for their aircraft

 

[Spade]

Hi Gilbert,
You asked, "Just out of curiosity, do planes actually have to be on the ground in order to be scrambled rather than on routine patrol or on exercises?"

From the original CTV story...
Quote:
"The jets took off from Cold Lake, Alta., to intercept the aircraft, which has been reported as either a Tupolev Tu-95 bomber or its newer sister, the Tu-160."

 

[petros]

From the original CTV story...
Quote:
"The jets took off from Cold Lake, Alta., to intercept the aircraft, which has been reported as either a Tupolev Tu-95 bomber or its newer sister, the Tu-160."

Fairbanks had the night off for the Bob Hope/Jewel revue at the USO.

 

[lone wolf]

Funny thing, that.... I recall being diverted from routine patrol to investigate reports of freighters dumping pollutants or illegal fishing - and even the occasional submarine - while serving on Argus. If the asset is available....

 

[#juan]

Just out of curiosity, do planes actually have to be on the ground in order to be scrambled rather than on routine patrol or on exercises?

No they don't but jets burn a hell of a lot of fuel so in the air defense mode, unless you know exactly where your "enemy" is coming from, you might as well stay on the ground. In another role, dealing with an enemy on the ground, routine patrols make a lot of sense.

 

[Spade]

Fairbanks had the night off for the Bob Hope/Jewel revue at the USO.

Must have. This story has more holes than a blindfolded swiss cheese on the wrong side of a firing squad!

 

[Tyr]

A touch closer for economic sake - like fishing or oil exploration. The Bear had neither net nor drilling probe. For actual territorial water, the hard line is still twelve miles.

I know.... You're some sort of military expert.

True enough. Do you think the USA would let a Russian sub get within 12 miles of Los Angeles?

Legally the border is 12 miles from the furthest headland or island. The Canadian border is less than 24 miles at the strait between Victoria Island and the mainland. How do you get through without traversing Canadian waters?

 

[lone wolf]

True enough. Do you think the USA would let a russina sub get within 12 miles of Los Angeles?

They would prefer it if the sub never left Vidyaevo.... Somebody catches hell when a boomer gets in close.

 

[L Gilbert]

Lemme see, Tyr says that planes need to be on the ground in order to be scrambled and Juan says they don't and Spade didn't answer my question but posted a clip from the article about planes taking off from Cold Lake. Yup, it's all clear now.

 

[Tyr]

Some of the (current) issues around the territorial borders

A coastal state, Canada has sovereign rights over the continental shelf defined as the area of seabed which extends 200 nautical miles (370km) from the shore. These rights include exploration and exploitation of its resources and give Canada jurisdiction over marine science research and environmental protection throughout this 200 nautical miles exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Coastal States may submit a recommendation to the United Nation’s Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (UNCLOS) to increase their EEZ where the shelf’s outer boundaries extend beyond 200 miles. Canada is currently preparing its claim and has until 2013 to submit it to UNCLOS. The EEZ is often set from outlying islands of unresolved ownership, resulting in various levels of disputes with other countries. In the Beaufort Sea where several countries converge, the stage has been set for a territorial race to win claims that will increase their rights to seabeds and natural resources (see map below).

1. North Pole: Russia leaves its flag on the seabed, at 4,000m beneath the surface.
2. Lomonosov Ridge: Russia argues that this underwater feature is an extension of its continental territory — currently collecting data-supporting evidence to make a claim
3. 200-nautical mile (370km) line: Shows how far countries’ economic zone extends beyond their coastline. Often set from outlying islands
4. Russian-claimed territory: The bid to claim a vast area is being closely watched by other countries who could follow suit.

There are currently three contentious issues pertaining to Canadian Sovereignty in the Arctic. The first one is in relation to territorial sovereignty while the other two deal with maritime rights. They are:

• the Hans Island dispute with Denmark,
• the status of the Northwest passage with the US, and
• the Canada/US boundary line extension into the Beaufort Sea.

Maybe they thought they were over Russian terrirtory

 

[MHz]

True enough. Do you think the USA would let a Russian sub get within 12 miles of Los Angeles?

Legally the border is 12 miles from the furthest headland or island. The Canadian border is less than 24 miles at the strait between Victoria Island and the mainland. How do you get through without traversing Canadian waters?

The path from the 'B' in Baffin 'B'ay going west is more than 40 miles yet none of that is considered as international waters, nor is Hudson's Bay. To get through the Arctic a boat would have to enter from the east side of Greenland

That 200 mile limit wasn't quite enough to cover the Grand Banks, the fish were simply taken from the tip that was not covered. In the Arctic the shelf drops off well before 200 miles, for Russia the distance is as far as 600 miles, you can bet your bottom dollar they will claim mineral right to that area and they should get it because that shelf is attached to their country.

 

[Spade]

Sorry, Gilbert. "Scramble" means to put a crew on board and get the aircraft into the air as quickly as possible. Even a looser interpretation still raises questions about this article.

 

[MHz]

Our northern border is still better protected than either NY,NY or Washington,DC

 

[ironsides]

Now you brought up something interesting. Should a person be granted full citizenship if they reject conscription for any reason? As was brought up in the story "Starship Troopers" by Robert A. Heinlein.

In the story, those who refused conscription for what ever reason paid higher income taxes were sort of second class citizens. no voting rights, families regulated as to how many children but otherwise lived pretty normal lives. Something like this I would worry about, not creating boogey men all the time. The only reason the story was news worthy was that it hadn't happened since the cold war ended.

 

[ironsides]

Spade, a plane traveling at 1610 KPH would have no problem making that intercept. Your right about your definition of scramble, but everything associated with the military is a scramble. They they don't take off at leisure.