History will vindicate George Bush

Blackleaf

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America and Britain were not only RIGHT to go to war in Iraq (finishing off the interrupted war, which started in 1990) but history will also vindicate George W. Bush. After all, Saddam WAS trying to get WMD. Whether or not he had any mattered not. Should we have waited until a Western city was hit by Saddam's WMD before we went to war with him?

Bruce Anderson: History will vindicate George Bush


In their abuse, his critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality


Monday, 19 January 2009
The Independent


It is not difficult to make the case against George Bush. There have been mistakes. But in their abuse of him, many of his liberal critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality



It is not difficult to make the case against George Bush. There have been mistakes. But in their abuse of him, many of his liberal critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality. In trying to belittle him, they merely reveal their own littleness. George Bush is a much more considerable figure than the caricature version. As he has set great events in motion, it will be impossible to judge his Presidency for many years. It is not impossible that history will offer a partial vindication.

The outgoing President did have one problem, especially in Europe. He may have finished off his father's war against Saddam Hussein. He was not able to avenge his father's defeat at the hands of the English language. Although some of George Bush junior's speeches will rank high in the annals of political oratory, once he was without a text, he often went adrift. But this was not due to lack of ability.

Early on, a friend of mine on the National Security Council went to a Bush Cabinet meeting. He had heard the reports that George Bush was a constitutional monarch with Dick Cheney as his prime minister, so he was interested to see what would happen. He watched as Mr Bush ran proceedings like a strong chief executive, while Mr Cheney did not say a word.

But it all comes back to the Iraq War, which was a tragedy, for a reason worthy of a great tragedian. It was fought in a spirit of excessive idealism. After 11 September, the US Administration asked itself one repeated and agonised question.

Why do these people hate us? The Bush team came up with their answer: because they live in failed states, which offer their young no hope in this world and thus leave them open to the temptations of fanaticism and a better deal in another world.

Baghdad was one of the foremost cities in the Muslim world. Iraq was a rich country with a large educated middle class. Yet it had become a police state and many of its ablest people had fled into exile. Moreover, Saddam had been trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction. We could not be certain that his quest had failed. So should we wait until the certainty of a mushroom cloud? It seemed that all the routes to progress in the Middle East and safety in the West led to Iraq.

There was one problem. Largely because of the malign influence of that fraud and tautology, international law, we have grown squeamish about regime change. As a result, the overwhelming desirability of regime change in Iraq had to be downplayed, and there was a further difficulty: the most unfortunate un-meeting of minds in recent public policy. After 2001, in both Washington and London, there was a split between those who knew Iraq, who were generally hostile to the War, and those who wanted war but usually knew nothing about Iraq. George Bush had little confidence in his Secretary of State, Colin Powell. Unable to sack Mr Powell, he made up for it by not listening to the State Department. Tony Blair never took much notice of his foreign secretaries.

As a result, the Arabists' expertise was disregarded and two vital conversations never took place. I will give the London version. Foreign Secretary: "There is no point in continuing this discussion. The PM has decided to go to war alongside the Americans, and that is that". Permanent Secretary: "All right, Foreign Secretary, but in order to give yourself any chance of success, you have got to do the following..." Foreign Secretary: "Now you're talking. I want a paper explaining all that on my desk by close of play tomorrow, and I will stand over the PM till he's read every word."

That never happened. Instead, the direction of events was left to the neo-conservatives, most of whom were dangerous idealists who believed that democracy was an infallible political antibiotic.

In that onrush of naivety, two crazy decisions were taken: to abolish the Iraqi army and to de-Baathise the civil service. In 1945, the allies were content to employ large numbers of former Nazi party members in the new West German bureaucracy. The practical arguments were equally strong in Iraq. There would have been one problem which had not been present in Germany; the army and civil service were Sunni power-centres, and the Shia would have demanded changes. But that could have been manageable. In a sullen and far from idealistic spirit, large parts of Iraq are now sort of working. But that could have happened much earlier had the mistakes not been made. If so, George Bush's ratings would be much higher.

His critics also insist that he should not have used the phrase "war on terror". That tells us a lot about their unwillingness to face up to a dangerous world. George Bush meant that America could not afford to relax until all terrorist organisations with a global reach had been defeated. That is not inflated rhetoric. It is common sense.

There was one unfortunate side effect of the war on terror: Guantanamo. At the time, it seemed a good idea: a cunning means of preventing American lawyers from undermining America's security. But the US prides itself on being a nation founded upon laws. It follows that a legal vacuum is only tolerable for a brief period. It has now dragged on for far too long. That said, anyone who denies that there are some exceedingly dangerous men in Guantanamo should be forced to live among them.

On the economy, and like Gordon Brown, George Bush could be accused of failing to fix the roof while the sun was shining. But two years' ago, it all seemed to be working. Growth was strong. Even after the Bush tax cuts, tax receipts were at record levels. A country with a young population, America did not have Europe's demographic weaknesses: too few earners and too many pensioners. Back in the days when sub-prime mortgage holders were just ordinary Americans trying to climb the ladder, there were grounds for hoping that the US could grow its way out of deficits and back to fiscal prudence. George Bush did not foresee the crisis. Who did?

It now looks as if there will be many more continuities between the Bush Administration and the Obama one than many of the new President's supporters had hoped. That is a tribute to George Bush. It will not be the last.

independent.co.uk
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
America and Britain were not only RIGHT to go to war in Iraq (finishing off the interrupted war, which started in 1990) but history will also vindicate George W. Bush. After all, Saddam WAS trying to get WMD. Whether or not he had any mattered not. Should we have waited until a Western city was hit by Saddam's WMD before we went to war with him?

Bruce Anderson: History will vindicate George Bush


In their abuse, his critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality


Monday, 19 January 2009
The Independent


It is not difficult to make the case against George Bush. There have been mistakes. But in their abuse of him, many of his liberal critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality



It is not difficult to make the case against George Bush. There have been mistakes. But in their abuse of him, many of his liberal critics demonstrate their own weak hold on reality. In trying to belittle him, they merely reveal their own littleness. George Bush is a much more considerable figure than the caricature version. As he has set great events in motion, it will be impossible to judge his Presidency for many years. It is not impossible that history will offer a partial vindication.

The outgoing President did have one problem, especially in Europe. He may have finished off his father's war against Saddam Hussein. He was not able to avenge his father's defeat at the hands of the English language. Although some of George Bush junior's speeches will rank high in the annals of political oratory, once he was without a text, he often went adrift. But this was not due to lack of ability.

Early on, a friend of mine on the National Security Council went to a Bush Cabinet meeting. He had heard the reports that George Bush was a constitutional monarch with Dick Cheney as his prime minister, so he was interested to see what would happen. He watched as Mr Bush ran proceedings like a strong chief executive, while Mr Cheney did not say a word.

But it all comes back to the Iraq War, which was a tragedy, for a reason worthy of a great tragedian. It was fought in a spirit of excessive idealism. After 11 September, the US Administration asked itself one repeated and agonised question.

Why do these people hate us? The Bush team came up with their answer: because they live in failed states, which offer their young no hope in this world and thus leave them open to the temptations of fanaticism and a better deal in another world.

Baghdad was one of the foremost cities in the Muslim world. Iraq was a rich country with a large educated middle class. Yet it had become a police state and many of its ablest people had fled into exile. Moreover, Saddam had been trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction. We could not be certain that his quest had failed. So should we wait until the certainty of a mushroom cloud? It seemed that all the routes to progress in the Middle East and safety in the West led to Iraq.

There was one problem. Largely because of the malign influence of that fraud and tautology, international law, we have grown squeamish about regime change. As a result, the overwhelming desirability of regime change in Iraq had to be downplayed, and there was a further difficulty: the most unfortunate un-meeting of minds in recent public policy. After 2001, in both Washington and London, there was a split between those who knew Iraq, who were generally hostile to the War, and those who wanted war but usually knew nothing about Iraq. George Bush had little confidence in his Secretary of State, Colin Powell. Unable to sack Mr Powell, he made up for it by not listening to the State Department. Tony Blair never took much notice of his foreign secretaries.

As a result, the Arabists' expertise was disregarded and two vital conversations never took place. I will give the London version. Foreign Secretary: "There is no point in continuing this discussion. The PM has decided to go to war alongside the Americans, and that is that". Permanent Secretary: "All right, Foreign Secretary, but in order to give yourself any chance of success, you have got to do the following..." Foreign Secretary: "Now you're talking. I want a paper explaining all that on my desk by close of play tomorrow, and I will stand over the PM till he's read every word."

That never happened. Instead, the direction of events was left to the neo-conservatives, most of whom were dangerous idealists who believed that democracy was an infallible political antibiotic.

In that onrush of naivety, two crazy decisions were taken: to abolish the Iraqi army and to de-Baathise the civil service. In 1945, the allies were content to employ large numbers of former Nazi party members in the new West German bureaucracy. The practical arguments were equally strong in Iraq. There would have been one problem which had not been present in Germany; the army and civil service were Sunni power-centres, and the Shia would have demanded changes. But that could have been manageable. In a sullen and far from idealistic spirit, large parts of Iraq are now sort of working. But that could have happened much earlier had the mistakes not been made. If so, George Bush's ratings would be much higher.

His critics also insist that he should not have used the phrase "war on terror". That tells us a lot about their unwillingness to face up to a dangerous world. George Bush meant that America could not afford to relax until all terrorist organisations with a global reach had been defeated. That is not inflated rhetoric. It is common sense.

There was one unfortunate side effect of the war on terror: Guantanamo. At the time, it seemed a good idea: a cunning means of preventing American lawyers from undermining America's security. But the US prides itself on being a nation founded upon laws. It follows that a legal vacuum is only tolerable for a brief period. It has now dragged on for far too long. That said, anyone who denies that there are some exceedingly dangerous men in Guantanamo should be forced to live among them.

On the economy, and like Gordon Brown, George Bush could be accused of failing to fix the roof while the sun was shining. But two years' ago, it all seemed to be working. Growth was strong. Even after the Bush tax cuts, tax receipts were at record levels. A country with a young population, America did not have Europe's demographic weaknesses: too few earners and too many pensioners. Back in the days when sub-prime mortgage holders were just ordinary Americans trying to climb the ladder, there were grounds for hoping that the US could grow its way out of deficits and back to fiscal prudence. George Bush did not foresee the crisis. Who did?

It now looks as if there will be many more continuities between the Bush Administration and the Obama one than many of the new President's supporters had hoped. That is a tribute to George Bush. It will not be the last.

independent.co.uk

I don't think there's much doubt about that, although I doubt if he'll go down as one of the "Great Presidents". Right now we are in an era where wars aren't popular albeit sometimes they are necessary. Bush has been getting more than his share of bad mouthing (a lot of it deserved) but when people go overboard they lose a lot of their credibility. Whether he will ever get above the bottom 10 in the ranks is a good question.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
For years, kids have planted pennies and ARE TRYING to grow money trees too. Does that justify the taxman hounding them?

I think you mean: when memories fade and they who pen the history notes insert their versions of the truth, Bush will be vindicated.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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America and Britain were not only RIGHT to go to war in Iraq (finishing off the interrupted war, which started in 1990) but history will also vindicate George W. Bush. After all, Saddam WAS trying to get WMD. Whether or not he had any mattered not. Should we have waited until a Western city was hit by Saddam's WMD before we went to war with him?

You can't be serious.

Oh sure, he WAS trying to get WMD was he? Where's the evidence? Oh let me guess, that evidence was hiding under those hanger roofs, am I right? :roll:

Whether or not he had any doesn't matter? THAT WAS THE WHOLE EXCUSE OF THE FK'N WAR!

Oh.... but he didn't have any, but he might have been trying to get some. Yeah, and I might be a clone of my original self which is locked away in some aluminum tube in a lab.

And you think Saddam/Iraq would have hit a Western country with WMD if he had the chance? Saddam might have been a crazy tyrant, but he wasn't stupid. And not only that, half of the countries over there don't even have any missiles or any other form of weapon that could reach any real distance to be a threat in the first place.

For example, Iran, if they even are working on nukes, might actually be lucky enough to reach Israel...... but certainly no threat to western countries..... and you think Iraq would have done better?

What a joke filled with empty speculation to try and pamper your asses for a stupid mistake.

Face it.... Bush lied to all of our faces and your PM, Tony Blair sucked it all up like a mindless twit..... you can try and find as much justification as you can for the war, but there simply isn't any worthwhile and what justifications you can scrape together for a defense, doesn't cover the damage, costs, deaths of countless innocent, and the fact that you guys didn't find what you were there to find.

The US and the UK screwed up...... you screwed up real good-like.

Suck it up and deal with it.

Bush is still an idiot.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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You can't be serious.

Oh sure, he WAS trying to get WMD was he? Where's the evidence? Oh let me guess, that evidence was hiding under those hanger roofs, am I right? :roll:

Whether or not he had any doesn't matter? THAT WAS THE WHOLE EXCUSE OF THE FK'N WAR!

That was his biggest mistake right there. Hanging his hat on WMDs.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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During the ten years or so since the first gulf war, Iraq was bombed almost daily by the Brits and the Americans. The infrastructure of just about every city in that woe-begone country was destroyed. George W Bush promised to put it all right again but that is unlikely to ever happen...Hell, they don't even have reliable electrical power in Bagdad.
 

pgs

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Nov 29, 2008
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Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.
Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?
 
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lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.
Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?

My guess is Pee Wee Herman made a lot of green too. Funny how that goes, eh?
 

givpeaceachance

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2008
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The only reason why history will vindicate Bush is because American History is written and read by Americans. They have been rewriting history for ages.

If you live in Canada and ever check the weather channel :
Have you even seen this commercial about "How the American's Won the Vietnam War" DVD? I saw this in the summer time. I couldn't believe the crap coming from the tube!! "Learn how the American's won the Vietnam war. History like you've never seen it!" No doubt!! I was shocked that our Canadian Weather Channel people are actually trying to sell this garbage to us. It took me one whole futile hour trying to find a way to contact them via telephone to ask them if they were OUT OF THEIR MINDS?!?! that never materialized because they have conveniently made it an Alcatraz mission to do so!!!

If American's want to believe lies then that's one thing but when I see that kind of indoctrination in MY country, that crosses a line. I wonder how many people bought the stupid DVD??!!
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.
Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?

I love it!
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.

Besides College/University, there isn't a higher one, unless you want me to believe the ol Skull and Bones Booga booga crap.

And in saying that, and since I know more about my education then you do.... like me going through three college course.... I'd say he didn't attain any higher education then I.

And even if he did, clearly it didn't do any good for him..... either that or he simply wasn't paying attention in class.

Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?

Well for starters, I'm not responsible for thousands apon thousands of dead/wounded/displaced innocent, I didn't allow torture to be the normal method of gathering information, I didn't create some stupid Patriot Act that tramples over the US constitution, I haven't dragged the US into the toilet and tossed its reputation down with it, I make enough money for what I need in my life, and I'm still quite young and have enough time to become Prime Minister if I so wish to do so. As a current job, I do a lot of work for a lot of well known companies around the maritimes and beyond......

What have you done besides bitch on a forum?

Yeah, that's what I thought. :roll:
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.
Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?

If his dad was rich enough, and had enough influential friends, Bozo the clown could get an education at Harvard. Bozo Bush drove at least one business into the ground but Daddy Bush bailed him out. Daddy Bush paid for his election and that kept GW from bankruptcy for at least eight years. He probably should have enough money for a while now.....We'll see...:roll:
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Sitting at my laptop
Praxius,yes Bush may be an idiot,
but he attained a higher education than you.
Makes more money than you,and attained the office of president of the United States of America.Not bad for an idiot.
What have you done?


he attained a higher education than you. Daddy Bush arranged it

Makes more money than you again Big George

,and attained the office of president of the United States of America, sorry, Big George again


.....and he's still an idiot :roll:
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
he attained a higher education than you. Daddy Bush arranged it

Makes more money than you again Big George

,and attained the office of president of the United States of America, sorry, Big George again


.....and he's still an idiot :roll:

Agreed... not to mention the oil companies he tried to run before being president that all went tits up..... should have been an obvious sign.... oh but daddy fixed all that for him too.

And now they're trying to tell everybody that Jeb Bush would be a great President next time around.

Bush Sr. only got through one term before he got the boot.... Bush Jr. screwed everything up so much that he'll be remembered as one of the worst presidents in US history right along with Nixon, and now they expect people to go through another Bush as President?

Gag me with a spork.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
38
Sitting at my laptop
The only reason why history will vindicate Bush is because American History is written and read by Americans. They have been rewriting history for ages.

If you live in Canada and ever check the weather channel :
Have you even seen this commercial about "How the American's Won the Vietnam War" DVD? I saw this in the summer time. I couldn't believe the crap coming from the tube!! "Learn how the American's won the Vietnam war. History like you've never seen it!" No doubt!! I was shocked that our Canadian Weather Channel people are actually trying to sell this garbage to us. It took me one whole futile hour trying to find a way to contact them via telephone to ask them if they were OUT OF THEIR MINDS?!?! that never materialized because they have conveniently made it an Alcatraz mission to do so!!!

If American's want to believe lies then that's one thing but when I see that kind of indoctrination in MY country, that crosses a line. I wonder how many people bought the stupid DVD??!!

The same revisionist history was written by Americans regarding the War of 1812 where they got their butt kicked. Read an American history book... they call it a "draw"
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
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Bush did all the right things the wrong way... Sudam didn't know what was coming!(not till it was too late)....Sudam was a ticking time bomb....Bush , like him or not Did make it possible for peace in Iraq..Dodged a couple shoes for proof of possible peace!...By removing a certain threat .He did make the world a safer place...However ...have said that...My Hope is that Obama will lead in peace , not in war!
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Of course you do, because you do nothing else but leech off of other people's comments directed my way and never bother to put anything worthwhile yourself.

Anything to throw at the big evil Praxius.... OoOOoOooooooo..... Booga Booga!

Fight the power man.... :roll:

You have it backwards, I just encourage the intelligent comments.