Israel...

[Zzarchov]

So what you are saying is that co-operation is useless?

Ok, then fine, Hamas can choose to pick a fight and suffer sanctions and worse as a result. No matter how you slice it, once you choose to resort to trying to kill people, you get what comes to you.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

You seem somehow perplexed that when Hamas tries to kill people, there is somehow blowback? Israel isn't surprised when Hamas tries to kill them, they understand the nature of basic human interaction.


In the end you can't justify this as anything other than the choice of Hamas.

 

[einmensch]

Just the Facts -Have a good holiday with you family--Paul

 

[earth_as_one]

Z,

Israel intends to take all of Palestine whether Palestinians are cooperative like Abbas or aggressive like Hamas. Palestinians can either die slowly begging on their knees or stand up and fight on their feet. Abbas is well compensated personally for his "cooperation". But effectively he represesents his own interests and Palestinians know this. He is extremely unpopular and considered by many Palestinians to be a traitor. Israel has accelerated their rolling annexation of the West Bank while Abbas attends international galas. Israel is free to attack detain and murder Palestinians in the West Bank.

But let me be clear. I do not agree with Hamas or other militant groups who choose to fight with violence. Israel uses Palestinian violence to justify their atrocities.

I wish that all Palestinians would embrace this approach:

Speaking Out for Non-violent Resistance: The Story of Bil’in Comes to the UK
by Olivia Snaije / May 3rd, 2008

LONDON — Anyone who has brought up the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at a social gathering will have realized that it has the capacity to elicit violence even among those who aren’t directly involved. So it is easy to imagine how the spiral of violence is an every day occurrence on the ground in the region itself. But non-violent resistance in the occupied territories appears to be gaining a certain momentum, and some Palestinians are coming to the conclusion that this form of resistance is a more efficient way of getting their message across.

Demonstrations and court cases launched by West Bank Palestinian villages such a Boudros or Mas’ha, where the Israeli Wall all scythes across the land have provided inspiration for other villages directly affected by the Wall.

“We benefited from the experience of Boudros.” Says Palestinian Iyad Burnat, head of the Bil’in popular committee. Hosted by the UK non-profit organization, The Peace Cycle, Burnat is on a speaking tour in the UK and Ireland this month along with George S. Rishmawi, co-founder of the International Solidarity Movement and a resident of Beit Sahour, a Palestinian suburb of Bethlehem known for non-violent resistance. Burnat and Rishmawi, who is a Christian Palestinian, will be speaking in universities, churches and interfaith groups and showing the documentary Bil’in Habibti (Bil’in My Love), which won an award at the Jerusalem International Film Festival in 2006.

Perhaps more than any other West Bank village, Bil’in has become a symbol of the Palestinian struggle against the Wall, with villagers, and an increasing number of Israelis and international peace activists, including Jewish Voices for Justice and Peace, Gush Shalom and Peace Now, demonstrating on a weekly and sometimes daily basis since 2004. With a population of 1,600, Bil’in, which is situated 16 kilometres west of Ramallah, has seen 60% of its land appropriated by Israel and the construction of an illegal settlement on this land.

Burnat participated in the first Intifada at age 17 and says he was arrested and put in an Israeli prison for two years. He believes in peaceful resistance because “all sectors of the population can participate and you can achieve what you want faster on the international front… Our goal is to send a message to the world that the Israeli propaganda about the Wall having to do with security is a big lie and that it is all about grabbing more land and building more settlements.”

Olives and olive oil production are vital to Bil’in’s livelihood. Villagers own approximately 20,000 olive trees on 1,000 acres, but since the construction of the Wall, most of the trees lie on the other side, moreover the Israeli army has uprooted 1000 of the older, more productive trees. The villagers’ tenacity and commitment to a non-violent approach has attracted widespread attention from peace activists who have participated in various events coordinated by the villagers such as chaining themselves to olive trees, or setting up a cage next to Israeli soldiers. In 2005 Rabbis for Human Rights helped Bil’in villagers with their partial olive harvest. But protesters have not been spared the violence of the Israeli army and have suffered numerous injuries over the years, some of which have been serious...

Dissident Voice : Speaking Out for Non-violent Resistance: The Story of Bil’in Comes to the UK

I believe the Zionist state of Israel can be defeated through non-violence. Non-violent protest attacks Israel's manufactured perception of victim underdog and threatens Israel where it is most vulnerable: US military and economic support.

A few pictures of old men, women and children being beaten by Israeli soldiers making the US news would hurt Israel far more than any rocket.

 

[darkbeaver]

The problem of non-violent protest has been solved by near blanket Zionist control of the media. It is now possible to convincingly portray a mouse as an elephant. Israel will fail of it's own greed, a lesson long in the making and absolutely necessary to the health of the global Jewish community. Zionisms first and primary victim is the Jew.

 

[Zzarchov]

Z,

Israel intends to take all of Palestine whether Palestinians are cooperative like Abbas or aggressive like Hamas. Palestinians can either die slowly begging on their knees or stand up and fight on their feet. .

Well if they believe that and want to fight then go for it. But you do know when you try and kill people, that getting sanctions is a slap on the wrist.

No people who engage in violence should complain about any hardships. If you don't like it, don't engage in violence.

 

[earth_as_one]

A recent example of what Palestinians living the West Bank have to endure from their Jewish settler neighbors:

Settler fires at Palestinians in Hebron, 4 Dec. '08

On 4 December, settlers attacked Palestinian houses in the city during the eviction of settlers in the Ras neighborhood of Hebron, A particularly serious incident occurred in the al-Hussein neighborhood, near the house where the Mitriyeh and Abu S'aifan families live. The incident was documented by Jamal Abu S'aifan with a camera he received from B'Tselem's camera distribution project. In the incident, a settler fired from very close range at three members of the Mitriyeh family, wounding them. Another settler fired into the air and at the cameraman, and tried to grab the camera from him. A third settler fired into the air and at the house. B'Tselem provided the video to the police the same day.

Witness the incident yourself here:
B'Tselem - Video - Camera distribution project - Settler fires at Palestinians in Hebron, 4 Dec. '08

The incident was not considered newsworthy here but it did make the Israeli news:

ANALYSIS / Hebron settler riots were out and out pogroms - Haaretz - Israel News

BTW, if you want to lesson in selective truth propaganda, compare the two video clips. The video clip at B'Tselem is more complete. The ANALYSIS video only shows the Palestinians beating the settler, it doesn't showing him shooting three Palestinians first.

More accounts of the same incident:

CAIRO - An innocent Palestinian woman cried for help as masked settlers surrounded her family, seeking to lynch them.

Israeli settlers shot and wounded three Palestinians and torched a number of Palestinian homes, fields and cars in Al-Khalil (Reuters.

"It is a pogrom in the worst sense of the word," veteran Israeli writer Avi Issacharoff writes in Haartez on Friday, December 5.

Issacharoff joined a group of journalists in covering Israeli settlers' assaults on an innocent Palestinian family in the West Bank town of Al-Khalil (Hebron) after being evicted from the family's house.

A group of masked settlers surrounded nearly 20 members of the Abu Sa'afan family, mostly women and children, seeking to lynch them.

First, the settlers set fire to their laundry and tried to set ablaze one of the rooms of the house.

"The cries rain down, much like the hail of stones the masked men hurled at the Abu Sa'afan family in the house," says Issacharoff.

The settlers shot and wounded three Palestinians and torched a number of Palestinian homes, fields and cars.

Issacharoff sought help from soldiers to intervene to stop the settlers' assaults but to no avail.

"We call for the security guards from Kiryat Arba to intervene and put a halt to the lynch," he said.

"But they surround the home to prevent the arrival of Palestinian aid," added the shocked journalist.

Issacharoff and fellow journalists found no other option but to intervene.

"They break into the home and save the lives of the people inside," he says.

Shame

Being inside the house, the Israeli journalists were shocked at what they have seen.

"The home is destroyed and the fear is palpable on the faces of the children," Issacharoff recalled.

"One of the women, Jihad, is sprawled on the floor, half-unconscious. The son, who is gripping a large stick, prepares for the moment he will be forced to face the rioters. Tahana, one of the daughters, refuses to calm down. "Look at what they did to the house, look."

Some of the Israeli journalist's fellows could not hold back their tears over the tragic scenes.

"The tears do not stem from fear. It is shame, shame at the sight of these occurrences, the deeds of youths who call themselves Jews," he said.

"Shame that we share the same religion."

About 500 settlers are housed in several tiny enclaves built since 1980 in the heart of Al-Khalil, home to more than 167,000 Palestinians.

Israeli settlers repeatedly assault Palestinians in the West Bank, occupied by Israel during the 1967 Middle East war.

With Israeli police turning a blind eye to repeated attacks by armed settlers, Palestinians are now using cameras as their frontline defense to record assaults by Israeli settlers.

Issacharoff feels ashamed of the settlers' assaults.

"Leaving the home, one can hear a settler yell at a police officer: "Nazis, shame on you." Indeed. Shame on you."

Settler 'Pogrom' for Palestinians - IslamOnline.net - News

Personally testimony
B'Tselem - Testimony of Rajaa Matariyah December 2008

Events like the above are common. Often Jewish settlers kill Palestinians and nothing happens. As far as I know, no one has been arrested in connection with the above event. Settlers can usually get away with claiming they were defending themselves from Palestinian militants.

 

[Zzarchov]

Well, lets get technical here,

The "settlers" in Hebron are Palestinian Refugees granted "Right of Return" now aren't they? Or do Jewish Palestinians evicted in the 40's not have a right to return, only muslims?

(for the record, I believe neither have a right).

But what do you expect to happen when you wrench people our of their house they paid for? All the talk I hear about "Not their House", never mentioned the half a million they paid for it was taken by the owner, if not for the house then what for?

I think both sides get what they deserve for the **** disturbing they are playing out over the most stupid of crap. In riots like that, charges are rarely pressed as you cannot prove who was the instigator and who the defender in each case. Thats no different than anywhere.

Even if you know , realistically, who caused each individual event, you still need proof beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[earth_as_one]

From what I understand the orignal owner intended to sell the property, but claims he cancelled the deal when he found out the new owners were Jewish settler extremists. Unable to acquire the house legally, the settlers seized the house while it was vacant, changed the locks and barricaded themselves inside. When the police showed up, they presented documents "proving" ownership.

The original owner has a legal deed of ownership and was able to prove the settler's documents proving ownership are forgeries. While the settlers have now been evicted, the original owner still does not have their house back. A court is still trying to determine if the house was sold or not. The original owner has to prove he cancelled the deal in order to get his house back. I cannot find any evidence to support they claim that they actually paid for the house.

For now, the house is being held by the state until a final decision can be made.

Meanwhile the settler extremists angry at being evicted went on a rampage attempting to burn other Palestinian homes in the neighborhood and assaulting any Palestinians that dared step outside their homes. The B'Tselem video above shows armed settlers shooting three unarmed Palestinians as they resisted the settler's attempts to burn down their house.

So far no one has been arrested for arson or attempted murder despite the video evidence and Palestinian testimony of what was clearly a "pogrom".

A pogrom is a form of riot directed against a particular group, whether ethnic, religious, or other, and characterized by the killing and destruction of their homes, businesses, and religious centers. The term in English is often used to denote extensive violence against Jews — either spontaneous or premeditated — but it has also been applied to similar incidents against other minority groups.

In this case, Jewish settlers randomly attacked Palestinians and set their homes on fire.

 

[gopher]

-- Jewish settlers randomly attacked Palestinians and set their homes on fire.--


A modern day anti Muslim pogrom. Where's the UN to stop it?

 

[Just the Facts]

The B'Tselem video above shows armed settlers shooting three unarmed Palestinians as they resisted the settler's attempts to burn down their house.

Apparently they got to him just in time, as this particular armed settler was famous for being able to hold a pistol in one hand and lob matches 50 yards with the other. :lol:

 

[earth_as_one]

More video has been posted on the B'Tselem website regarding this incident here:

B'Tselem - Settler violence - 10 Dec. '08: Hebron: Willful abandonment by security forces

The first video is the same as the above. It shows two Jewish settlers attacking a lone Palestinian which attracts the attention of other Palestinians nearby. Three Palestinians come to the aid of the lone Palestinian being attacked and try to get the two Jewish settlers to leave. One does, but the other pulls a gun and begins shooting. He appears to hit three of the four Palestinians but misses one who then tackles the Jewish settler. Other Palestinians arrive and they lay a beating on the Jewish settler.

In the second video, you can see an angry mob of Jewish settlers destroying Palestinian homes while the few Israel soldiers on the scene appear unwilling or unable to stop the riot. The soldiers are armed, but they do not fire any shots in the air or take any steps to intervene.

In the third video, you can see at least three fires burning.

While these images were being captured, Jewish settlers "also attacked Palestinians elsewhere in the West Bank. These attacks included stone throwing at houses and cars, destroying property, setting fires, and spraying graffiti on the walls of mosques."

 

[Zzarchov]

From what I understand the orignal owner intended to sell the property, but claims he cancelled the deal when he found out the new owners were Jewish settler extremists. Unable to acquire the house legally, the settlers seized the house while it was vacant, changed the locks and barricaded themselves inside. When the police showed up, they presented documents "proving" ownership.
.

It says they gave him half a millions dollars. If he didn't want to go through with the deal, he should probably give back the half a million dollars.

If I go out an buy a house, and pay for it, then Im told the guy cancelled the deal as he wants to keep the house, I would expect at the very least he gives the money back.

If the laws allow for a buyers/sellers remorse period..thats cool...but you can't keep the money and the house.

 

[einmensch]

Israel

The Israeli government finally did what it should have done months ago and forcibly evicted 200 hardline settlers from the House of Dispute in Hebron after the Supreme Court ruled that the building had been ‘appropriated’ from the Palestinian owner based on fraud. Settlers had turned the building into a virtual headquarters of resistance to Israeli state authority and a showcase for violent opposition to a Palestinian presence.

 

[einmensch]

Israel

Now this is what we're gonnadoo, Israel. We show the world how good we are. We let medicines , food, humanitarian trucks into Gaza today and tommorow after they get it into storage, we blow up the Hospitals, and the medicine and food warehouses. They have no defense. We can kill thousands without them ever getting a shot at us. This is how we treat people. Tomorrow we cry about the 6 million that were murdered by Nazis and all the anti-Semitism.
That may help us to stop Iran from obtaining defensive arms so we can blow them up without resistance. If it weren't so sad it would be unbearably funny.

Just think Israel -you have just created another 10,000 that dream nightly of killing Jews, any jew will do

USA Today [FONT=verdana,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Sun, 28 Dec 2008 7:45 AM PST[/SIZE][/FONT]
The publisher of a disputed Holocaust memoir has canceled the book, adding the name Herman Rosenblat to an increasingly long line of literary fakers and bringing down with a crash his story embraced by Oprah Winfrey among others of meeting his future wife at a Nazi concentration camp.

 

[Zzarchov]

Uh huh, 1.) The fakery was that a nice german girl threw food to him and even in bad regimes there are good people as I recall.

It was pointed out there was no way any german girl could have thrown him food over the fences.



If you feel so strongly against shooting at people who shoot at you, does that mean you think war is never the answer?

 

[einmensch]

Israel

One medium-range rocket fired at the Israeli city of Ashkelon killed an Arab construction worker there Monday and wounded several others. He was the second Israeli killed since the beginning of the offensive
Before he was killed he was an animal now he is and Israeli-Right Zz

If it is produced in Israel and it is Brown--it is Kosher chocolate of the finest grade and you expect others to eat it-don't try to feed it to us-> feed it to your brothers

HERE is the story --
Rosenblat, 79, has been married to the former Roma Radzicky for 50 years, since meeting her on a blind date in New York. In a statement issued Saturday through his agent, he described himself as an advocate of love and tolerance who falsified his past to better spread his message.

Money to be made from Holocaust lies>>>the movie will be sacred to you Zz-light a candle or two

FOXNews.com - News of Fabricated Holocaust Memoir Sparks Anger, Sadness - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News this is from Fox News-Zz

 

[Zzarchov]

One medium-range rocket fired at the Israeli city of Ashkelon killed an Arab construction worker there Monday and wounded several others. He was the second Israeli killed since the beginning of the offensive
Before he was killed he was an animal now he is and Israeli-Right Zz

If it is produced in Israel and it is Brown--it is Kosher chocolate of the finest grade and you expect others to eat it-don't try to feed it to us-> feed it to your brothers

HERE is the story --
Rosenblat, 79, has been married to the former Roma Radzicky for 50 years, since meeting her on a blind date in New York. In a statement issued Saturday through his agent, he described himself as an advocate of love and tolerance who falsified his past to better spread his message.

Money to be made from Holocaust lies>>>the movie will be sacred to you Zz-light a candle or two

FOXNews.com - News of Fabricated Holocaust Memoir Sparks Anger, Sadness - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News this is from Fox News-Zz

So..you posted that link to agree with me? His fabrication is that a girl threw him food over the fence, when in fact nobody ever threw him food.

On Saturday, Berkley Books canceled Rosenblat's memoir, "Angel at the Fence." Rosenblat acknowledged that he and his wife did not meet, as they had said for years, at a sub-camp of Buchenwald, where she allegedly sneaked him apples and bread. The book was supposed to come out in February.
Rosenblat, 79, has been married to the former Roma Radzicky for 50 years, since meeting her on a blind date in New York. In a statement issued Saturday through his agent, he described himself as an advocate of love and tolerance who falsified his past to better spread his message.

Did you read that? Im guessing no.

As for the construction worker. Where do you get this animal crap? He was an Israeli citizen. you do know that a good chunk of Israeli citizens (both civilian as well as the police, military and elected government) are Arabs and/or Muslims right?

Israel is a Jewish Majority country, its not "only jews" anymore than Canada is "Only whites" because we are a white majority country.

You really are are a lunatic.

 

[dancing-loon]

'Gaza strike is not against Hamas, it's against all Palestinians'

** 'Gaza strike is not against Hamas, it's against all Palestinians'********** : Information Clearing House - ICH

-------------------------------------------------------
A fitting reader's comment

In 1943 S.S. Brigadier-General Jurgen Stroop sent a message to Hitler saying "The Warsaw Ghetto no longer exists" This after the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of men, women and children the majority of whom were Jewish.

Those magnificent and brave people fought tenaciously with whatever was at hand against an overwhelmingly powerful and merciless foe.

Were the Jews 'Terrorists' ? I think not.

One has to wonder when the same message will be sent by a General to the head of Israel stating "The Gaza Ghetto no longer exists"

Shame on Israel - she has forgotten her past.
john wilson

Those Israeli bullies, who cannot negotiate in fairness!:angryfire:

Bully Bush, bully Israel, bully Mugabe... what other bullies are on the loose? Oh, I know... little bully Harper!!! and big bully Putin in Chechnya!!

 

[earth_as_one]

It says they gave him half a millions dollars. If he didn't want to go through with the deal, he should probably give back the half a million dollars.

If I go out an buy a house, and pay for it, then Im told the guy cancelled the deal as he wants to keep the house, I would expect at the very least he gives the money back.

If the laws allow for a buyers/sellers remorse period..thats cool...but you can't keep the money and the house.

Imagine a situation where if a Canadian sells land to an American, that part of Canada becomes part of the US. Effectively that's the situation in the West Bank under Israeli occupation. Parts of the West Bank which are owned by Jews are considered by Israel to be disputed territory and potential part of Israel.

As a result it is a capital crime under West Bank law for Arabs to sell land to Jews. Therefore the Arab did not have the authority or the right to sell this land to a Jew and such a transaction would be illegal.

Under West Bank law it is legal for Americans or other foreigners to buy land in the West Bank.

In this case it appears that an American Jew illegally misrepresented himself when he bought this property from a West Bank Arab. When the Arab found out he was selling land to a Jew (a capital crime) he canceled the deal. Technically the deal wasn't legal. If the original owner isn't prepared to return the money, then that would be also be crime.

 

[einmensch]

Israel

Yes I read it all. Including that Rosenblat's description of Theresienstadt was bull
Media quotes
Nonetheless, that love story is completely bogus,..
But lying about the Holocaust has some larger ramifications, as the AP details later in their story:

but TV talk show host Oprah Winfrey, film producers, journalists, family members and strangers who ignored, or did not know about, the warnings from scholars that his story did not make sense.

adding the book to a growing list of fabricated memoirs.

Waltzer, two European historians and two forensic genealogists set out to determine whether Rosenblat's unlikely tale was true.

Berenbaum now says he saw factual errors, including Rosenblat's description of Theresienstadt, the camp from which he was eventually liberated, but did not think of challenging the love story.

This guy lied for 18 years and visited schools etc and put forth lies as HOLOCAUST Education
Eat your chocolate Zz it nurishes your brain


Hand in Hand runs Israel's first and only network of integrated, bilingual schools where Jews and Arabs study together in both Hebrew and Arabic

Police prejudice

Mazuz said there was insufficient proof for a conviction and that the families of the victims would not allow post-mortems to be carried out for ballistics purposes.

Shawki Khatib, the head of the Follow-up Committee, accused Israel of "giving its backing to the murder of Arab citizens".
Zz -you remember the post where Israel's Minister of Education Stated Publicly that Arab Students didn't need washrooms--they wouldn't know how to use them--they can go outside-- you are eating too much of that chocolate Zz -distorts your perception I knew you were full of chocolate when you stated that your grandparents fled from the bombing of Holland -A one day bombing -another Holocaust truth??