Israel...
- Thread starter dancing-loon
- Start date
Don't you know how to post something to back up your theories?
If Christians and Muslims are forbidden from running banks then they would have no use for money. Transactions would be on a different base.
Slaves, given control of the money system of any Nation, sure.....what country held the Rothchild family as slaves? In the beginning and at this current time.
Ummmm.... source: The News
The above is the reply received from Just the Facts when I requested a source for his rediculous statemnt. He expects to be taken seriously yet can provide the source that are in the News.
The Ummm is good!
Seriously? You are familiar with medieval bankers but not medieval banking laws?
Are you not aware that even today Islamic Banking differs from western banking (which has legalized Usary, or rather made Usury only unreasonable interest)
How about you pick up a damn book! I mean its like you are asking me to prove muslim's don't wash down bacon sandwhiches with a nice mug of beer or that Christians don't support lying and adultery.
Here are some links
Let me google that for youhttp://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Usury+
http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Riba+Islam
Thanks for the link.
"The Christian prohibition on usury eventually provides an opportunity for bankers of another religion. European prosperity needs finance. The Jews, barred from most other forms of employment, supply this need. But their success, and their extreme visibility as a religious sect, brings dangers."
I assume that covers the majority of time before. Jews were moneylenders @ interest. The article suggests Jews could charge interest and not break any Religious Laws.
Ex:22:25: If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
((Jews cannot charge interest to loans made to the poor (line drawn by the income of the banker's own wealth. In todays practise there are loans made but only @interest, or no loans are made to the poor. Even just having them hold onto money for you is @ interest.
The verses below is confirmation of the above verse. This might not cover how a Jewish banker deals with Gentiles ))
Le:25:36: Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Le:25:37: Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.
De:23:19: Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:
((Are there separate rates of loans when comparing a Jew and a Gentile with very similar social status?
This next verse would have allowed usury when dealing with other individuals or Nations. The cross messed that up as that marked the time Jews and Christians (Gentiles) became brothers in the eyes of God, the stranger is dead as far as 'interest' is concerned. ))
De:23:20: Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
"They (Templars)too, an exclusive sect with private rituals, easily fall prey to rumour, suspicion and persecution."
A group similar to the Jews also suffered that same sort of treatment. Banking @ interest was the root cause, their religion was a minor item.
Since the Jews lost some of the control over banking did the persecution taper off some in those two centuries?
This is the sort of support I would use as to why usury even today should be abolished. People making money for doing nothing while all others lead a poorer life.
Usury: A Short History of Banking
Never needed to know the banking laws for that time before now.
How they operated is widely known. If a religion forbids usury then today both Christians and Jews would be going against their won Laws.
Changing a law to allow Christians or Jews to 'lend' only makes them sinners, the Laws in Scriptures do not change at mans discretion.
The only solution would be loans to individuals who make less than a banker (top wage) should get all loans at 0% interest. Loans to those who make more can be done at interest (just enough to cover costs, no profits or outlandish salaries), corporations would also fit that class. That would seem to be the only way to actually do it legally. The old fixes did not stop the crime of usury.
So can I get an interest free loan at a Muslim bank if I am poorer than the banker? That feature would draw a lot of clients.
Ok you need a history lesson in religion and politics and the nature of centralized versus decentralized religion.
Strongly centralized and organized religions (which you can be punished for violating the codes of) would often interfere against money lending (Islam and Christian nations).
Jews, not being of the dominant religion (anywhere) could thus be used as bankers. There could in theory have also been Muslim bankers in Christian countries and Christian bankers in Muslim countries, but with the way the two religions kept fighting with each other (both being expansionist) it never occurred on a large scale.
Strongly centralized and organized religions (which you can be punished for violating the codes of) would often interfere against money lending (Islam and Christian nations).
Jews, not being of the dominant religion (anywhere) could thus be used as bankers. There could in theory have also been Muslim bankers in Christian countries and Christian bankers in Muslim countries, but with the way the two religions kept fighting with each other (both being expansionist) it never occurred on a large scale.
In March 2007, settlers moved into a house in the middle of a heavily populated Palestinian neighborhood in Hebron and defied government eviction orders for over a year.
Swift? 9 months to move 200 Jews out of a house that is not contested as it was proven a year ago-Right Israel!
How long would it take to move out 200 Palestinians ?-2 hours or just shoot them as militants
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Play Video Mideast Video: Beirut's art of war Reuters -
Play Video Mideast Video: Israeli airstrike kills Hamas militant AP -
Play Video Mideast Video: Palestinian prisoners riot Reuters
Swift? 9 months to move 200 Jews out of a house that is not contested as it was proven a year ago-Right Israel!
How long would it take to move out 200 Palestinians ?-2 hours or just shoot them as militants
Colpy- I also read your source re no Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza in German only there it gave your view from the Globe and Mail and a conflicting source from The Independent.
Your view must be that there are no humans in Gaza and so there can be no humantarian crisis.
On Monday morning residents awoke to closed petrol stations and shuttered bakeries unable to bake bread - a staple food in Gaza.
Generators are supplying critical power to hospitals
Generators are being used to maintain critical power supplies to hospitals but there are fears that supplies of diesel could soon run out. -----Mr Olmert insists the Israeli action is limited to cutting fuel supplies for vehicles.
More than 200 rockets and mortars have hit Israel from Gaza since an Israeli operation against militants on Tuesday that left 18 Palestinians dead, the Israeli military says.
What not a single Israeli death ? Just a lot of soiled pants?
YouTube - Gaza food shortage - ct'd <- All lies, anti semitic lies
Does anyone have truthful youtube clips?
Your view must be that there are no humans in Gaza and so there can be no humantarian crisis.
On Monday morning residents awoke to closed petrol stations and shuttered bakeries unable to bake bread - a staple food in Gaza.
Generators are being used to maintain critical power supplies to hospitals but there are fears that supplies of diesel could soon run out. -----Mr Olmert insists the Israeli action is limited to cutting fuel supplies for vehicles.
More than 200 rockets and mortars have hit Israel from Gaza since an Israeli operation against militants on Tuesday that left 18 Palestinians dead, the Israeli military says.
What not a single Israeli death ? Just a lot of soiled pants?
YouTube - Gaza food shortage - ct'd <- All lies, anti semitic lies
Does anyone have truthful youtube clips?
404 Not Found is Just the Facts and others
Peacemann is willing to let the white sheep from Gaza go to the West Bank Pasture-How nice of him. Baah
Peacemann is willing to let the white sheep from Gaza go to the West Bank Pasture-How nice of him. Baah
Nice recap for people who may have skipped the entire thread and went straight to Einmenchs' posts.
Thank you Einmencsh for the astute summation. The following is a simple google search conducted by my developmentally delayed pet monkey, who can teach lessons on basic 21st century research to one Einmensch:
hijacked iranian dying pirates - Google Search=
As you can see, the information requested of Just the Facts by Einmensch was highly esoteric and would be very difficult to obtain by any researchers with a functioning level below that of the volunteer sleuth. Therefore, thank you retarded monkey for your kind and selfless help in this matter.
What an ignorant comment, lots of Israeli's have been killed by the rocket fire.
Oh yeah, you're not interested in The News, and you don't use search engines. How could you be expected to know.
And if the rockets are so useless, why fire them? You tell me children are starving because they can't get food in. No problem importing rockets and explosives though, eh what?
Just about. Anti-semitic denial, anyway. From the clip: "No control over the vital food and aid that Israel won't let in." How about "nothing will be allowed in because of continued rocket attacks".
Think about that.
"No control over the vital food and aid that Israel won't let in."
No control. Palestinian Arabs are pre-programmed to fire rockets at Jews? They have no choice? They are compelled, and must fire rockets and mortars at Israelis?
"No control over the vital food and aid that Israel won't let in."
What a joke. They have COMPLETE control. Just stop bombing Israelis. What could be more simple?
JTF: I am unable to find any evidence that even a single Israeli has died as a result of a rocket attack from Gaza during this truce. In fact no one has been killed by the "barrages" of rockets since the end of the truce. I admit, that's partially due to luck, but also because these rockets aren't effective weapons.
On the other hand, Israel killed 49 Palestinians during the "truce".
Hamas refrained from firing a single rocket at Israel until after Israel sent soldiers into Gaza and killed seven members of Hamas in violation of the ceasefire terms.
Another misperception you have is that Israel started starving Gaza in ersponse to rocket attacks from Gaza. But the truth is Israel started the blockade after Hamas won democratic elections and then began starving Gazans when Hamas defeated an Israeli/US supported coup attempt by Fatah to overthrow democratically elected Hamas. The coup was successful in the West Back, but hamas managed to hang onto power in Gaza. That's when the Israeli blockade became an attempt to starve Gazans into submission.
I expect Israel will enter Gaza soon. When they do, I expect Hamas will be ready for them. I suspect Hamas has been busy implementing the same types of defenses which defeated Israel in Lebanon in 2006.
I don't wish for war, but I see what Israel does as a crime against humanity which is being ignored by the world. At least the world won't be able to ignore an Israeli invasion. I expect the horrific conditions Israel has imposed on the people of Gaza will finally be seen by the world.
All Gazan civilians should evacuate Gaza now, through the tunnels to Egypt. I doubt Israel will distinguish civilian from militant during the coming battle.
On the other hand, Israel killed 49 Palestinians during the "truce".
Hamas refrained from firing a single rocket at Israel until after Israel sent soldiers into Gaza and killed seven members of Hamas in violation of the ceasefire terms.
Another misperception you have is that Israel started starving Gaza in ersponse to rocket attacks from Gaza. But the truth is Israel started the blockade after Hamas won democratic elections and then began starving Gazans when Hamas defeated an Israeli/US supported coup attempt by Fatah to overthrow democratically elected Hamas. The coup was successful in the West Back, but hamas managed to hang onto power in Gaza. That's when the Israeli blockade became an attempt to starve Gazans into submission.
....Israel claims ad nauseam that its Nazi-like blockade of Gaza, which is a brazen violation of international law, is in response to the firing by Gaza guerrillas of generally ineffective home-made projectiles known as Qassams.
This is simply a big lie. The Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip began immediately after Hamas won the legislative election in January 2006, and the main driving goal was to punish, as much as internationally acceptable, the people of Gaza and Palestinians in general for electing a government that Israel didn’t like....
...Israel did violate the ceasefire understanding several times, killing as many as 49 Palestinians from June-19 when the truce began to December-19 when it ended.
During that period, not a single Israeli civilian was killed by Palestinian factions in the Gaza strip....
Dissident Voice : Strangling Gaza to Near Death while Pretending to Be Victim
I expect Israel will enter Gaza soon. When they do, I expect Hamas will be ready for them. I suspect Hamas has been busy implementing the same types of defenses which defeated Israel in Lebanon in 2006.
I don't wish for war, but I see what Israel does as a crime against humanity which is being ignored by the world. At least the world won't be able to ignore an Israeli invasion. I expect the horrific conditions Israel has imposed on the people of Gaza will finally be seen by the world.
All Gazan civilians should evacuate Gaza now, through the tunnels to Egypt. I doubt Israel will distinguish civilian from militant during the coming battle.
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Happy Hanukah JtF
May your conditions be as Great as they are in Gaza. You deserve it.
Thanks for the source-Strange that the ships crew didn't get sick and die. Nice that we know so much about the pirates but not what caused their illness and deaths.
May your conditions be as Great as they are in Gaza. You deserve it.
Thanks for the source-Strange that the ships crew didn't get sick and die. Nice that we know so much about the pirates but not what caused their illness and deaths.
Hamas was democratically elected. Fatah and Hamas agreed to work together. But Israel and the US armed Fatah fighters directly in Gaza and pressured Fatah to oust Hamas in a coup. The result was a mini-civil war in Gaza won by Hamas and Fatah seizing control in the West Bank:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and President George W. Bush, whose secret Palestinian intervention backfired in a big way. Photo illustration by Chris Mueller; left, by Debbie Hill/Sipa Press; right, by Issam Rimawi/ApaImages/Polaris; background by Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters/Corbis.
The Gaza Bombshell
After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.
by David Rose April 2008
The Gaza Bombshell: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com
Israeli US attempts to arm Fatah in Gaza ended up arming Hamas. Even before Hamas successfully defeated the Fatah coup attempt in Gaza, they were intercepting Fatah bound conveys and seizing their weapons.
Which is why Hamas does not need tunnels to smuggle in small arms and munitions. They already have thousands of small arms and millions of rounds bought and paid for by the US and Israel.
I imagine their main focus would be acquiring RPGs and MANPADS capable of defending themselves from Israeli tanks and aircraft. Some evidence exists that Hamas has acquired these weapons along with more powerful longer range surface to surface missiles:
Due to the terms of the Egypt/Israeli peace treaty, Egypt can only field a limited number of police soldiers in the Sinai. Which is why they have no ability to stop the smuggling. Likely far more gets into Gaza than is intercepted.
Which is why Hamas does not need tunnels to smuggle in small arms and munitions. They already have thousands of small arms and millions of rounds bought and paid for by the US and Israel.
I imagine their main focus would be acquiring RPGs and MANPADS capable of defending themselves from Israeli tanks and aircraft. Some evidence exists that Hamas has acquired these weapons along with more powerful longer range surface to surface missiles:
Due to the terms of the Egypt/Israeli peace treaty, Egypt can only field a limited number of police soldiers in the Sinai. Which is why they have no ability to stop the smuggling. Likely far more gets into Gaza than is intercepted.
Thank you very much, I'll be sure to send you some fresh fruit and maybe some souvenir Kassam and Greenhouse parts. I trust you will support me as I fire rockets indiscriminately at my neighbors. :lol:
It's quite possible that the story is made up, no doubt about it, which is why I said "Maybe, maybe not".
Still, it's not hard to figure out why the crew didn't get sick. I suspect they weren't the ones pillaging through the cargo holds.
Have a very merry Christmas!!
EAO it's no secret that the U.S. and Israel support Fatah over Hamas, they're quite open about that. They're training Fatah security forces who apparently are making a difference in the West Bank.
Personally I think they're kidding themselves, it's just a matter of time before those forces are used against Israel. Still, here's to hoping.ccasion5:
It's news to me that Fatah were the aggressors over Hamas in Gaza, I always read it to be the other way around. I'll read your info when I have time.
Have a very merry Christmas!!
Personally I think they're kidding themselves, it's just a matter of time before those forces are used against Israel. Still, here's to hoping.
ccasion5:It's news to me that Fatah were the aggressors over Hamas in Gaza, I always read it to be the other way around. I'll read your info when I have time.
Have a very merry Christmas!!
Earth as One, I would love to hear you actually answer this one:
Where does the UN ever say Embargos and Sanctions are the incorrect response to attack?
Please, please tell me where the UN says that is illegal, all I find is the UN saying that is the correct response.
Also, If no Israeli's are dying, why is Hamas firing them? No matter how you slice it, Hamas CHOOSES to have this sanction. If they don't want a confrontation, they should stop firing rockets.
No matter what you post, until you address those key points and solidly address them, you cannot logically show Hamas as anything but in the wrong.
Where does the UN ever say Embargos and Sanctions are the incorrect response to attack?
Please, please tell me where the UN says that is illegal, all I find is the UN saying that is the correct response.
Also, If no Israeli's are dying, why is Hamas firing them? No matter how you slice it, Hamas CHOOSES to have this sanction. If they don't want a confrontation, they should stop firing rockets.
No matter what you post, until you address those key points and solidly address them, you cannot logically show Hamas as anything but in the wrong.
Abbas is an example of what cooperation with the US and Israel gets a Palestinians leader.
As Israel continues to detain, torture and kill Palestinian in Abbas controlled West Bank, they have also accelerated their illegal Jewish only settlement expansion.
Meanwhile Abbas gets to fly around the world, attend galas thrown in his honor, wine and dine with the rich and famous. By the way who pays for that?
Palestinians have noticed he hardly spends any time in the West Bank anymore:
Abbas is a model of US/Israeli bought cooperation. While he has profitted personally, the people he is supposed to represent have suffered.
Release some Palestinians just before they hae to anyway, detain some more. Sounds like a shell game. Most of the people Israel holds have never committed a violent act and qualify as political prisoners.
People in the "Abbas controlled" West Bank are slowly being coralled into ever smaller enclaves, but at least they aren't being starved.
I can see how cooperating with Israel and the US has benefitted Abbas personally, but perhaps someone would like to explain the benefits Abbas' cooperation with Israel to the people in the West Bank? As their land shrinks and they become encircled by walls, should they be grateful that they aren't starving like the people in Gaza?
Many Israeli apologists have claimed repeated in this string that in order for Palestinians to be treated as human beings by Israel, they need only stop firing rockets at israel. Perhaps you can explain the West Bank?
Seems to me Abbas' cooperation with Israel hasn't helped the people in the West Bank gain freedom or justice and has helped Israel annex more West Bank land for their illegal Jewish only settlements.
As Israel continues to detain, torture and kill Palestinian in Abbas controlled West Bank, they have also accelerated their illegal Jewish only settlement expansion.
Meanwhile Abbas gets to fly around the world, attend galas thrown in his honor, wine and dine with the rich and famous. By the way who pays for that?
Palestinians have noticed he hardly spends any time in the West Bank anymore:
Abbas is a model of US/Israeli bought cooperation. While he has profitted personally, the people he is supposed to represent have suffered.
Release some Palestinians just before they hae to anyway, detain some more. Sounds like a shell game. Most of the people Israel holds have never committed a violent act and qualify as political prisoners.
People in the "Abbas controlled" West Bank are slowly being coralled into ever smaller enclaves, but at least they aren't being starved.
I can see how cooperating with Israel and the US has benefitted Abbas personally, but perhaps someone would like to explain the benefits Abbas' cooperation with Israel to the people in the West Bank? As their land shrinks and they become encircled by walls, should they be grateful that they aren't starving like the people in Gaza?
Many Israeli apologists have claimed repeated in this string that in order for Palestinians to be treated as human beings by Israel, they need only stop firing rockets at israel. Perhaps you can explain the West Bank?
Seems to me Abbas' cooperation with Israel hasn't helped the people in the West Bank gain freedom or justice and has helped Israel annex more West Bank land for their illegal Jewish only settlements.