May I recommend a war against the recession.

[Nuggler]

Guaranteed Anual Income (GAI) would eliminate the worst of poverty and exact a better distribution of wealth, of course nothing will work leaving the present capitalist model in place. We need most of all radical change in economics and governance.
This economic downturn (freefall) is already in the early stages of depression and the following war is already set in motion. Canadians have been working away at it for decades, Hati and Afghanistan are our two most hienous crimes against humanity and our national part in the crime of global domination both economically and militarily.

I remember the idea of the GAI. Quite a few years ago now, we were going to have a GAI, shorter work week, more vacation, better pay, job security.

Someone musta heard us thinking.

Treating people like they were not piles of dog ****, would probably just "make them lazy"


:lol:

 

[Said1]

Yes, and that has resulted in considerable waste. Among some of the 'brilliant' 'investments' of CIDA (a government make-work and international PR scheme marketting itself as a federal aid agency) include:

A tractor donation. This was under Trudeau years ago, but gives an idea of how it works. The tractor industry was in recession at the time, so they decided to buy a bunch of tractors to give to people in what country I forget, but they couldn't buy the friggin parts if the tractor broke down, couldn't afford gas for the tractor, etc. So guess what, ten years later all the tractors were rusting in the fields.

A water pump. Now this was in some African country. Some Canadian 'experts' went out to build a water pump for a community in Africa in need of water, but neglescted to consult the local 'savages'. As it turned out these locals beleived that the spirits of their ancestors lived in the ground, so would refuse to drink water that would come out of the ground. So after figuring out the problem, these 'experts' had to spend money again to build condensation sieves.

Food donation. On another occasion, CIDA wanted to get rid of excess Canadian food, so dumped it on Haiti I think it was. The local farmers were pissed off and nearly lost their businesses, which could have made the country even more dependent.

English textbooks fro China. These books don't benefit the poor Chinese at all. It's the middle class Chinese that benefit from this project.

So if we're going to give money in aid that way, then please, just cut our taxes and let us give it out of our own pockets, no strings attached. And if you refuse to do that, then let's not give any money at all and just develop Canada instead, because such politically laden 'aid' is a pure waste of money.

It also comes back in the form of FDI and interest payments, which I"ll assume is used for development ect in Canada. Underdeveloped nations are often more difficult to work with than developing nations (which is what I was talking about, initially) because they are lacking in so many fundamental areas. The government also gives money to UNICEF and other international charities, already (on top of private donations).

Just out of curiousity, under your system, how does UNICEF allocate funds, per nation? Given that UNICEF is also quite dependent on the host nation for cooperation, what happens to countries who do not allow UNICEF workers to operate in their countries, in the way UNICEF wants? Also, I thought UNICEF was primarily a relief agency aimed at helping children, and not a development agency?

 

[TenPenny]

We've had a war against drugs, and a war against child poverty, and neither one has done **** all, so I politely suggest that a war against the recession would be a waste of effort.

 

[JLM]

We've had a war against drugs, and a war against child poverty, and neither one has done **** all, so I politely suggest that a war against the recession would be a waste of effort.

No doubt - how would you even start? The people who are suffering from the recession can't fight it - they're hunkering down with K.D. and beans and sewing patches over patches & those activities don't provide much employment.

 

[darkbeaver]

Poverty can be eliminated by eliminating the upper class and redistribution of wealth which labour creates. Scocial Credit or death. As long as we are ruled by the wealthy psycopathic elite there will be divisions and disparities which of course are designed by those very same wealthy who cannot exist as an elite class without a vast underclass maintained decade after decade for that express purpose.

 

[JLM]

Poverty can be eliminated by eliminating the upper class and redistribution of wealth which labour creates. Scocial Credit or death. As long as we are ruled by the wealthy psycopathic elite there will be divisions and disparities which of course are designed by those very same wealthy who cannot exist as an elite class without a vast underclass maintained decade after decade for that express purpose.

You're about 1/2 right, there's a few wrinkles that would have to be worked on for it to work. If you remove the "upper class", then there isn't anything left for the young,intelligent ambitious person to aspire to- like brain surgerin' or just ordinary doctorin' or engineer and eventually for the race to survive we're gonna need some of those boys.

 

[Machjo]

It also comes back in the form of FDI and interest payments, which I"ll assume is used for development ect in Canada. Underdeveloped nations are often more difficult to work with than developing nations (which is what I was talking about, initially) because they are lacking in so many fundamental areas. The government also gives money to UNICEF and other international charities, already (on top of private donations).

Just out of curiousity, under your system, how does UNICEF allocate funds, per nation? Given that UNICEF is also quite dependent on the host nation for cooperation, what happens to countries who do not allow UNICEF workers to operate in their countries, in the way UNICEF wants? Also, I thought UNICEF was primarily a relief agency aimed at helping children, and not a development agency?

I don't know all the details here, but I do know that it also provides elementary education, which is more permanent than temporary relief after a short emergency.

But I admit I can't answer the rest of your questions there.

But I think it's pretty clear that liquidating CIDA would be a wise move owing to its repeated blunders over the decades till today.

 

[Zzarchov]

Poverty can be eliminated by eliminating the upper class and redistribution of wealth which labour creates. Scocial Credit or death. As long as we are ruled by the wealthy psycopathic elite there will be divisions and disparities which of course are designed by those very same wealthy who cannot exist as an elite class without a vast underclass maintained decade after decade for that express purpose.

People only labour so they can either become wealthy and lazy, or have their children become wealthy and lazy.

Take away the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and all of a sudden just killing people and taking their stuff looks like a better idea. Its human nature, even you are suggesting it right now.

 

[Said1]

I don't know all the details here, but I do know that it also provides elementary education, which is more permanent than temporary relief after a short emergency.

But I admit I can't answer the rest of your questions there.

But I think it's pretty clear that liquidating CIDA would be a wise move owing to its repeated blunders over the decades till today.

I don't think CIDA has done that terrible. A lot of the projects they fund are multilateral projects around the world including other UN agencies aside from UNICEF. They're also not the only ones sending tractors to Africa (although I did not know Trudeau did that, I thought his pet project in Tanzania was relatively successful, up until the late 80'S), there is a Christian charity that does that still, today.

 

[Machjo]

I'd seen one of CIDA's projects in China. Shockingly enough, I would not have known about it had I not gone to China. Essentially, it was just an EFL textbook project for middle-class Chinese kids. If we're helping the third world, shouldn't we be helping th epoor and not the middle class? If thsoe parents can afford those textbooks and have their kids take those courses, then they're far from being poor by Chinese standards. Most Chinese don't even get to go to high school, and CIDA is funding middle-class EFL projects?

Come on!

 

[Said1]

EFL text books? I have no idea what that means.

Would EFL textbooks help a poor village community in China?

CIDA is independantlyn involved in numerous education projects in China, even though China is not a third world country. Hundreds of millions is given for development projects that in no way benefit the poor in rural areas.


CIDA is a development/aid/ relief agency, maybe that's the problem. I'm sure there is lots of interdepartmental competion for project funding.

 

[Toro]

Poverty can be eliminated by eliminating the upper class and redistribution of wealth which labour creates. Scocial Credit or death. As long as we are ruled by the wealthy psycopathic elite there will be divisions and disparities which of course are designed by those very same wealthy who cannot exist as an elite class without a vast underclass maintained decade after decade for that express purpose.

I missed ya when I was gone, DB...

 

[talloola]

Of course, but if we give the money to the auto industry, same result, the difference being that the money given goes to auto execs and highly paid union workers. Like I said in the original post. I'd rather the government not bail out, but clearly that's what the idiots of the country want, so if it must be that way, then at least give the money to the poor so that they'll be able to withstand the inflation.

before doing that, how do you differentiate between the truly poor, no fault of
their own, and the poor who wish to live off the rest of the population, and
are just as greedy and selfish as the powerful elite.

 

[Machjo]

EFL text books? I have no idea what that means.

Would EFL textbooks help a poor village community in China?

CIDA is independantlyn involved in numerous education projects in China, even though China is not a third world country. Hundreds of millions is given for development projects that in no way benefit the poor in rural areas.


CIDA is a development/aid/ relief agency, maybe that's the problem. I'm sure there is lots of interdepartmental competion for project funding.

EFL = English as a Foreign Language. Claude Piron, a poliglot who speaks all of the UN's official languages and seven languages in total, a former UN interpreter and now professor of psychology at the University fo Geneva, estimated that to learn English well as a second language, you need to invest from 10 to 20 thousand hours of study time. There is no way that the average Chinese high school graduate will have put in that amount of time yet, and only the middle class, or the extremely lucky will get to go on to higher education.

So to invest in teaching EFL to a poor child who will not even go on to senior secondary school is a complete waste of money for that child! The only ones who could possibly benefit from this project are middle-to-upper-class children. So why on God's green earth are we subsidizing textbooks that are but a burden on the poor with no return on their investment of time and money in English learning, and that are of benefit to none other than middle to uppoer class kids. This means that we are subsidizing a textbook that is of benefit to China's elites and a burden to its poor! Explain the bloody logic in that.

 

[Machjo]

before doing that, how do you differentiate between the truly poor, no fault of
their own, and the poor who wish to live off the rest of the population, and
are just as greedy and selfish as the powerful elite.

I can see two solutions to this:

1. Don't give them money. Provide them with a dormitory room and a cafeteria. Then find out why they landed in the mess they're in. Then provide what they need to get them on their feet, but never give them the money. If lack of skills is the problem, then upgrade their skills. Language skills, literacy skills, vocational skills, whatever. If it's another problem, then deal with that. Drug problem? Send them to rehab, compulsory. Psychological, suicidal tendencies? Find out why? Parental abuse or neglect? Whatever, provide them with appropriate therapy. Don't know how to make a resume, then teach them that. No suit and tie for a job interview, or no soap to wash with or toothbrush to brush with, give them that. But do not give them any money. We give them services or tools, or amenities, whatver, but never money.

2. Just cut taxes and leave it up to us to give the money to charity. And each charity can decide on its own standards for giving out the money.

These are two options I can consider.

In fact, in some cases we might even find that it's our fault. imagine, for example, that we find out that some person who had a job, was happy, and knew how to save before but who is now in debt, unemployed, depressed, etc. ended up that way as either a direct or indirect result of some government law or buraucratic issue, then that might be a chance for us not only to help him but also to find out how this law or buraucratic glitch pushed him down, and how we can rectify this glitch to make sure it never happens again.

This could be especially common among Canadians who marry a foreigner, and end up tangled in Canada's immigration system, not only a financial issue but also emotional and perhaps even emotionally devastating. If you're down on your knees emotionally, chances are it won't be long before you become poor, no matter how much money you've got saved up.

I knew one case of a man who became an alcoholic after his son died of a car accident. And he lost everything. I know of some cases of Canadians committing suicide after finding out that their wife married them for citizenship. Others didn't go that far but were emotionally knocked down never the less. We never know what it is in life that will just smack us across the head with a spiked iron base ball bat.

 

[Said1]

EFL = English as a Foreign Language. Claude Piron, a poliglot who speaks all of the UN's official languages and seven languages in total, a former UN interpreter and now professor of psychology at the University fo Geneva, estimated that to learn English well as a second language, you need to invest from 10 to 20 thousand hours of study time. There is no way that the average Chinese high school graduate will have put in that amount of time yet, and only the middle class, or the extremely lucky will get to go on to higher education.

So to invest in teaching EFL to a poor child who will not even go on to senior secondary school is a complete waste of money for that child! The only ones who could possibly benefit from this project are middle-to-upper-class children. So why on God's green earth are we subsidizing textbooks that are but a burden on the poor with no return on their investment of time and money in English learning, and that are of benefit to none other than middle to uppoer class kids. This means that we are subsidizing a textbook that is of benefit to China's elites and a burden to its poor! Explain the bloody logic in that.

I didn't say all development projects made a lot of sense. If you think textbooks are bad, look into funding that goes to other projects, in China. But it's still a development project and like it or not, learning english contributes to the future development of China. CIDA also contributes to rural education programs implemeneted through UNICEF, in China.

Either way, I don't know a lot about the projects so I can't say much for the time being.

 

[Machjo]

I didn't say all development projects made a lot of sense. If you think textbooks are bad, look into funding that goes to other projects, in China. But it's still a development project and like it or not, learning english contributes to the future development of China. CIDA also contributes to rural education programs implemeneted through UNICEF, in China.

Either way, I don't know a lot about the projects so I can't say much for the time being.

The problem though is this. if a Chinese can afford to keep his child in school long enough for him to learn English well enough for him to be able to put it to practical use, then he doesn'e need a friggin' subsidy from the Canadian government; he's already among China's elites.

Now I'd have no qualms about a project helping a poor Chinese kid with literacy in his mother tongue before he finishes junior middle school and then goes out to find a job. The problem there though is it doesn't create jobs for Canadian EFL 'experts'. For Canada to fund a Chinese literacy programme would involve giving them the money to hire their own experts in their own language to teach their poorest members. While I could agree with something like this (more along the lines of what UNICEF does), CIDA would never support it because it gives no economic advantage to China, like the tractor project that could create jobs for tractor factories, or EFL texbooks which create jobs for Canadian EFL experts. So in the end, the whole thing is a PR scam aiming to benefit Canada, not the host country.

 

[Machjo]

I should point out that English only benefits the elites who have the chance to learn it, so let them fund it themselves, not with CIDA's money, our tax dollars.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

"Machjo; The only jobs that government can create are government jobs. Since the government is the largest single employer in the country you would think that this would be a cinch, and really, it is. The problem is that in order for an economy to be dynamic it needs to create wealth." There are only two basic ways of creating wealth, by mining something or killing something.

JLM; I know you were quoting me, anyway, there are far more ways of creating wealth. All it is is adding value to something. You farm it, sell it, market it, re-sell it, that creates wealth. Providing services, entertainment, or goods creates wealth. You can't expect people to work for free, not for long anyway. BTW, you always have to kill something in order to eat, we generally call it the food chain.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Poverty can be eliminated by eliminating the upper class and redistribution of wealth which labour creates. Scocial Credit or death. As long as we are ruled by the wealthy psycopathic elite there will be divisions and disparities which of course are designed by those very same wealthy who cannot exist as an elite class without a vast underclass maintained decade after decade for that express purpose.

Karl Marx student, eh? I hate to tell you this, it's already been tried. All eliminataing the "upper class" accomplishes is supplanting a ruling class in its stead. As for eliminating poverty, it only guarantees everyone the right to sleep in a shoebox under a bridge. Hey, misery loves company.