Manufactured Crisis

[Scott Free]

Manufactured Crisis

I'm curious to know how many people think the current Canadian crisis was manufactured?

Or did Harper really just "accidentally" miscalculated the oppositions reaction to his draconian measures (which remember he never mentioned in the election).

 

[Scott Free]

It does seem like it doesn't it?

I wonder if there is a way to know?

 

[Colpy]

Yep.

It was manufactured by the NDP and Bloc, who worked out basics of giving the Bloc power, then sat and waited for the opportune moment to drag in the Liberals.....

I'm gonna say it again.......there were things in the Conservative update that I did not like......the removal of the right to strike, for instance, but overall it was a prudent, reasonable document........the Liberals paniced over loss of their subsidy money, nothing else, so, drunk with fear and loathing, they fell into bed with Layton and the Separatists.....

They are going to regret it in the morning.

Realizing the public would certainly not be outraged at the prospect of political parties losing a chunck of public money......especially when the CPC lost the biggest chunk by far, the Coalition grasped desperately onto the economic "crisis" in an attempt (failed) to make it appear to Canadians that they were acting in the best interests of the nation.

Outrageous!!!!!

Canadians were not fooled. Polls today show a loathing of the coalition, with support only in 35 percentile range, with "do not support the coalition" at 58%. If a vote was held today, Harper would get around 45% of the vote, and a majority.

The only poll that counts, however, is an election.

Let's have one!

(Funny, I see all those coalition supporters that were screaming about "democracy" running for the door)

 

[Scott Free]

Yep.

It was manufactured by the NDP and Bloc, who worked out basics of giving the Bloc power, then sat and waited for the opportune moment to drag in the Liberals.....

Alright, but how can you think you live in a democracy and hold it's OK to stop the process just because you don't like the mandate of some lawfully elected MPs?

I understand what you're saying but it seems to me the Bloc has every right to be part of a coalition and Harper set a new prescience to stop them.

How can you possibly think that is democratic?

Remember we don't elect a Prime Minister, we elect a Parliament. Harper is not (or at least wasn't) a President.

 

[JLM]

Manufactured Crisis

I'm curious to know how many people think the current Canadian crisis was manufactured?

Or did Harper really just "accidentally" miscalculated the oppositions reaction to his draconian measures (which remember he never mentioned in the election).

Not by the real definition of the word- more a bad REACTION.

 

[JLM]

I was going to add- "by a bunch of dimwits" but that wouldn't be nice.

 

[Colpy]

Alright, but how can you think you live in a democracy and hold it's OK to stop the process just because you don't like the mandate of some lawfully elected MPs?

I understand what you're saying but it seems to me the Bloc has every right to be part of a coalition and Harper set a new prescience to stop them.

How can you possibly think that is democratic?

Remember we don't elect a Prime Minister, we elect a Parliament. Harper is not (or at least wasn't) a President.

No, I do not think stopping the process was acceptable. I think the GG was in error in allowing it to happen.

The Bloc is, by definition, disloyal (as is their right) to the nation. To allow them to have any part in the gov't of that nation is idiotic in the extreme. To pay them off, to accord them influence, to have them as a de facto member of the coalition.....outrageous!

There should have been an election call. To me, constitutional crisis cries out for an election

I understand how Parliament works......I believe it would be best for the country if the NDP and Liberals came together as one party. If they beat the Cons.....well, sobeit.......but I refuse to be ruled by the Bloc. In any way.

 

[karrie]

Remember we don't elect a Prime Minister, we elect a Parliament. Harper is not (or at least wasn't) a President.

I think our electoral process should have to make up its mind then. While in theory we vote only on our individual MP's, in reality, the parties campaign their MP's, they campaign their party platform, and they also campaign a man who they have destined for PM. So, Canadians have to split one vote along three decisions. If it's true that we're not voting on these men in part, then the parties should be expected to stop campaigning them. Theory versus the reality doesn't pan out with the 'we don't elect a leader' stance.

 

[Scott Free]

No, I do not think stopping the process was acceptable. I think the GG was in error in allowing it to happen.

The Bloc is, by definition, disloyal (as is their right) to the nation. To allow them to have any part in the gov't of that nation is idiotic in the extreme. To pay them off, to accord them influence, to have them as a de facto member of the coalition.....outrageous!

There should have been an election call. To me, constitutional crisis cries out for an election

I understand how Parliament works......I believe it would be best for the country if the NDP and Liberals came together as one party. If they beat the Cons.....well, sobeit.......but I refuse to be ruled by the Bloc. In any way.

OK, I can see your point - I don't agree but I see it.

I don't think a coalition would have been bad either and certainly better IMO than suspending our democracy.

I guess we'll know by watching what happens next. I hope Harper doesn't destroy Canada or push a bunch of neocon laws though. There is nothing standing in his way now - I guess that's what I find most unnerving.

 

[Scott Free]

I think our electoral process should have to make up its mind then. While in theory we vote only on our individual MP's, in reality, the parties campaign their MP's, they campaign their party platform, and they also campaign a man who they have destined for PM. So, Canadians have to split one vote along three decisions. If it's true that we're not voting on these men in part, then the parties should be expected to stop campaigning them. Theory versus the reality doesn't pan out with the 'we don't elect a leader' stance.

This might be true if you (I don't mean you specifically) watch too much American TV and don't understand our system.

You do not vote for the PM. You never have. You might even have thought you did but you didn't.

You can vote for a party, you can vote for a person, or both - if that isn't good enough you can run as an independent.

 

[karrie]

I guess we'll know by watching what happens next. I hope Harper doesn't destroy Canada or push a bunch of neocon laws though. There is nothing standing in his way now - I guess that's what I find most unnerving.

I guess it would depend on the types of laws Scott.

Part of why the gg didn't just hand things over to the coalition, is due to the nature of what these men are scrapping over. Budgets and campaign funding (and my jaded side says, mainly campaign funding). It doesn't come down to something which solidly, provably, is right or wrong, or effects the Canadian people drastically. Now, when it comes to laws, you've got a whole other ballgame. If the PM is pushing through laws no one wants to see, and Canadians in a clear majority get their voices up over it, that is precisely what these loopholes are there for, and that is precisely when a coalition will get strong backing from the gg.

 

[karrie]

This might be true if you watch too much American TV and don't understand our system.

You do not vote for the PM. You never have. You might even have thought you did but you didn't.

You can vote for a party, you can vote for a person, or both - if that isn't good enough you can run as an independent.

Start a poll Scott... even with the amount people on here know about our political system, see if the leader of the party effects whether or not they vote for that party, that MP in their area. It's very clearly a factor to many people. If it wasn't, the Libs wouldn't have been calling for Dion to step down, and blaming their loss on him.

 

[Scott Free]

I guess it would depend on the types of laws Scott.

Part of why the gg didn't just hand things over to the coalition, is due to the nature of what these men are scrapping over.

That's too bad. She really is incompetent then.

Budgets and campaign funding (and my jaded side says, mainly campaign funding). It doesn't come down to something which solidly, provably, is right or wrong, or effects the Canadian people drastically.

I would say taking peoples right to strike away and taking pay equity away is pretty drastic; especially when there was no reason for it.

Now, when it comes to laws, you've got a whole other ballgame. If the PM is pushing through laws no one wants to see, and Canadians in a clear majority get their voices up over it, that is precisely what these loopholes are there for, and that is precisely when a coalition will get strong backing from the gg.

Except for one small detail: it didn't get her backing.

The coalition did exactly have more support. That was why Harper had a minority.

 

[Scott Free]

Start a poll Scott... even with the amount people on here know about our political system, see if the leader of the party effects whether or not they vote for that party, that MP in their area. It's very clearly a factor to many people. If it wasn't, the Libs wouldn't have been calling for Dion to step down, and blaming their loss on him.

I agree, our school system and politicians are responsible for that mess too. They pander after it though because it is the easier coarse I suppose than educating people.

I remember once talking to a fellow that was raised in Canada and he asked me who our current President was. He was a bright guy just pig ass ignorant. The scary part is that he isn't in the minority.

 

[lone wolf]

Harper broke his own election date rules in order to get the best terms possible for himself. He lied to all of us in assuring us there would be no recession. He knew it was coming. How couldn't he? He also knew it's the generally trusting nature of Canadians to believe in their governments. Harper won his seat - but his party did NOT win the vote. His party was in minority, yet he continued to rule as he was king. When desperate measures are called for to knock down a bully, the oddest of alliances are formed. Read history. It's nothing new. It only becomes a bad thing when it's your side who's in the wrong. The opposition did what they are paid to do. They opposed a bully.

 

[Trex]

Manufactured Crisis

I'm curious to know how many people think the current Canadian crisis was manufactured?

Or did Harper really just "accidentally" miscalculated the oppositions reaction to his draconian measures (which remember he never mentioned in the election).

Harper isn't enough of a gambler .

Taliban Jack is, with nothing to loose either.

Trex

 

[#juan]

Yep.

It was manufactured by the NDP and Bloc, who worked out basics of giving the Bloc power, then sat and waited for the opportune moment to drag in the Liberals.....

I'm gonna say it again.......there were things in the Conservative update that I did not like......the removal of the right to strike, for instance, but overall it was a prudent, reasonable document........the Liberals paniced over loss of their subsidy money, nothing else, so, drunk with fear and loathing, they fell into bed with Layton and the Separatists.....

They are going to regret it in the morning.

Realizing the public would certainly not be outraged at the prospect of political parties losing a chunck of public money......especially when the CPC lost the biggest chunk by far, the Coalition grasped desperately onto the economic "crisis" in an attempt (failed) to make it appear to Canadians that they were acting in the best interests of the nation.

Outrageous!!!!!

Canadians were not fooled. Polls today show a loathing of the coalition, with support only in 35 percentile range, with "do not support the coalition" at 58%. If a vote was held today, Harper would get around 45% of the vote, and a majority.

The only poll that counts, however, is an election.

Let's have one!

(Funny, I see all those coalition supporters that were screaming about "democracy" running for the door)

Colpy you've been showing your hatred for anything but the right wing for so long now that it no longer has any impact. Harper built this crisis, and if he has his way, the basta-d with have us in yet another bloody election that costs the taxpayer about a hundred and fifty million a crack.
The stimulation measures Harper mentioned outside the parliament buildings were the first inkling anybody heard of any stimulation measures by Harper and his henchmen except for selling off assets. Harper won't get another vote in Quebec because of the crap he spouted yesterday and his bull in a china shop tactics in the last while. Funny, Newfoundland won't have him and they have a conservative government.
Btw Colpy. You didn't complain when Harper was courting the blocheads. Why is it different when done by somebody else.

 

[Stretch]

Manufactured....to keep us distracted.

 

[Lester]

I don't particularly agree with Colpy a lot of the time, but I agree with him today. I will not be ruled by traitors to Canada and that's exactly what the bloc is a collection of traitors, and anyone who consorts with them is guilty by association. If Harper is the manufacturer of this crisis then he is a political mastermind and the opposition should quit as theyare sorely outclassed.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't particularly agree with Colpy a lot of the time, but I agree with him today. I will not be ruled by traitors to Canada and that's exactly what the bloc is a collection of traitors, and anyone who consorts with them is guilty by association. If Harper is the manufacturer of this crisis then he is a political mastermind and the opposition should quit as theyare sorely outclassed.

Isn't it funny how you'll allow yourself to be ruled by someone who wants to stir up that separatist stuff again just in time for a Quebec provincial election. Face it ... the coalition is the lesser of two evils....

If Harper is the manufacturer of this crisis (and I have no doubt it's a part of his game) then he is a manipulative SOB who deserves nothing better than to be found beaten and bloody in a gutter somewhere - because that's the dues for being a cheating scum.