Manufactured Crisis

Was this crisis manufatured?

  • Probably

    Votes: 6 54.5%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • No way

    Votes: 3 27.3%

  • Total voters
    11

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Manufactured....to keep us distracted.

The major Canadian Political celebrities obey the old advisors who advised this manufactureing. The level of disinformation and inflamatory language on both sides leads me to think major distraction. This is just better theatre than usual to suit some economic disaster/terrorist attack. The crisis machine has been wound up a bit tighter the spin machines are on double time patriotism abounds gimme a gun I'll attack Pakistan and save the teddy bears frum Muslims. Harper's not the best choice to introduce Canadians to perpetual war, the A-Team can do it smoothly with a wider based coalition.
 

Lester

Council Member
Sep 28, 2007
1,062
12
38
65
Ardrossan, Alberta
Isn't it funny how you'll allow yourself to be ruled by someone who wants to stir up that separatist stuff again just in time for a Quebec provincial election. Face it ... the coalition is the lesser of two evils....

If Harper is the manufacturer of this crisis (and I have no doubt it's a part of his game) then he is a manipulative SOB who deserves nothing better than to be found beaten and bloody in a gutter somewhere - because that's the dues for being a cheating scum.
This seperatism is all bluff,it's an old card that's well worn. I don't beleive Quebec is a viable country because they are hooked on transfer payments and cannot function without them. I for one am sick of their foot stomping tantrums.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
This seperatism is all bluff,it's an old card that's well worn. I don't beleive Quebec is a viable country because they are hooked on transfer payments and cannot function without them. I for one am sick of their foot stomping tantrums.

If any faction is having a foot stomping tantrum it's Harper and his legion of fat heads. Look what happened when adults took his fascist candy budget away.:lol:
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
38
Sitting at my laptop
Nope. You are giving Harper and his band of happy campers far too much credit. They really don't have the wherewithal to think past the present day
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
This seperatism is all bluff,it's an old card that's well worn. I don't beleive Quebec is a viable country because they are hooked on transfer payments and cannot function without them. I for one am sick of their foot stomping tantrums.

Oh, I know that and you know that but Quebec doesn't ... even if the Quebequois do. They agitate and stir up the public ... then we wind up paying the price. Harper's idiotic game will drive people straight into the arms of PQ. What happens if they're not bluffing this time? I'll wave bye-bye ... and mourn the loss for a moment. I will remember who stirred the pot this time - which makes him lower than an alliance with the Bloc....
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Nope. You are giving Harper and his band of happy campers far too much credit. They really don't have the wherewithal to think past the present day

That's the evident inherant poverty of todays Canadian conservatism, but there is a higher economic power at play here, the titans of industry have decided the world over to replace the bush team with the good guys full of hope driven by benevolent change. They got saint Obama and we get the three wise men.
 

Lester

Council Member
Sep 28, 2007
1,062
12
38
65
Ardrossan, Alberta
Well Tyr you can mull that over right up until he engineers his majority, He spent two hours talking to the GG,and I don't think they were talking about the weather. it's more than likely he has laid out a road map towards his goals. Is Harper ruthless? you bet- exactly the kind of guy I want running this country. These bailouts for the auto industry should wait until Obama gets in, what is he going to do with them? If the US doesn't bailout the parent companies and they go broke - what will happen to the bailout money we give their subsiduaries here in Canada? who's gonna buy these cars? same with forestry, we were already getting stiffed on softwood, plus the added stress caused by the pinebeetle. I can't imagine it getting any better with a recession in full swing in the US. We should carefully pick our way through this minefeild instaed of running headlong into it with suitcases full of money.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
38
Sitting at my laptop
Well Tyr you can mull that over right up until he engineers his majority, He spent two hours talking to the GG,and I don't think they were talking about the weather. it's more than likely he has laid out a road map towards his goals. Is Harper ruthless? you bet- exactly the kind of guy I want running this country. These bailouts for the auto industry should wait until Obama gets in, what is he going to do with them? If the US doesn't bailout the parent companies and they go broke - what will happen to the bailout money we give their subsiduaries here in Canada? who's gonna buy these cars? same with forestry, we were already getting stiffed on softwood, plus the added stress caused by the pinebeetle. I can't imagine it getting any better with a recession in full swing in the US. We should carefully pick our way through this minefeild instaed of running headlong into it with suitcases full of money.

True enough. One thing we can and should do is diversify our import/export base from the USA and make an effort to "pump up the volume" with China, India, Russia, and any other G-20 country with which we have an negative imbalance.

Our reliance on the USA in "times of plenty" has made us complacent in exploring (and yes, exploiting) new markets.

As it stands we, as a country are somewhat like the oil and gas industry in Alberta. When the price is high, the economy "rocks". When the price dives, their economy tanks. They are subject to extreme cyclicals

Canada is in the same boat. If the American economy grows, Canada's follows suit. If it crashes, so do we

Possibly the gov't (whoever that may be) could put an incentive plan in place for trade with anybody in the G-20 other than the USA?
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Quebec...Quebecois or oise. Francophone or Anglophone.

Why does one know and the other does not.

Les bon homme - the little guy - hears only what they who control the news want them to hear. Right now, it's not the people crying for separation - les Qubequois - dominating the news. Let Quebecers (les bom homme) believe they are getting screwed and they get annoyed. Using the public is little game trouble makers and union organizers like to play everywhere - even in Quebec.

Scratch ... don't look for insults and you won't find them, okay?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
My take on it.

1. Right after the election, the GG should have been wary of granting power to any minority party until a majority co-alition could be formed, to which the government would be given. Whether that would be considered excessively interventionist or not, I don't know, but it would seem to be a wise way to avoid problems in the first place, and a good precedent to start in my opinion. After all, how is a minority to govern without support from a majority?

2. Any minority government that truly cares for stability ought to enter into a majority coalition before it does anything. In this respect, all the parties were at fault for having failed to try to create a majority coalition from the start. As soon as the election was over, the Conservatives should have tried to form a majority by aligning themselves with enough independent candidates or another party to form a majority. The Liberals should have been trying to the the same thing. The NDP too. And even independents should have been aligning themselves with someone to form a majority,And of course the Bloc couldn't care less.

So the Bloc aside, they all acted irresponsibly by allowing a minority government to take shape in the first place.

3. Once a minority government was formed, the Conservatives should have recognized their error and vulnerability and tried to establish a majority co-alition at that time before presenting their budget. In this respect, the Conservatives are solely responsible to having put themselves in such a vulnurable position. Had they never accepted to take the government before forming a majority first (probably with the Liberals, let's say), they would never have been so vulnerable in the first place. So the responsibility for having put themselves at risk of failing a confidence motion is squarely the fault of the Conservatives. The GG was at fault for stage 1 above. Any MP who didn't at least try to form a majority as soon as the results of the election came out was equally at fault for stage 2 above. But in this stage 3, where the errors of stages 1 and 2 avbove had been done already, and the government was already formed, the failure to try to form a majority coalition at that stage before presenting the bill was exclusively the fault of the government itself (once the government was formed, the other parties thus officially became 'the opposition', and no longer had any responsibility to support a government of which they were not a part). Harper should have foreseen the possibility of this.

4. The opposition parties began to plan a united allied co-alition, to which they have a right (each MP is free to allie himself with whomever he wishes). No one is to blame here as it is a basic right for any MP to allie himself with whom he wishes.

5. Harper senses the threat, goes on TV and whips up separatist fearmongering, alienating Quebec (even many federalists) even more, thus bringing the threat of separation closer to reality. That is the fault of Harper himself (and not necessarily any other MP, Conservative or otherwise, unless they were involved in promoting this fearmongering themselves) for going on TV to do so.

6. Harper askes the GG to prorogue parliament. If I were the GG, I probably would have taken a more laissez-faire attitude to it and let him learn from his mistake, but having said this, I don't disagree with what she did. It was well within her rights to do so.

I voted maybe above since Harper might have planned all of this, but considering the complexity of it, I can also accept that there was no malicious plan as such. Clearly it was a series of errors on the part of all parties involved at various stages in teh formation of this government, with each party being at fault for each stage in which it made a mistake.