What's your opinion on United States Of America?

[Bar Sinister]

It depends on how one defines greatest. Certainly the US dominates the world in a manner no other nation has ever done, and it has achieved much in the way of scientific, cultural, and economic development. For awhile the US probably offered opportunities to its citizens that were not available anywhere else. Currently, however, many nations of the world have caught up and even surpassed the US in many areas. In terms of social and political equality the US now lags behind many of the nations of Western Europe, and economically it is in danger of being overtaken by China. This is not to say that the US is still not a wonderful place to live and visit, it means only that there are many things the US could do to make it as great a nation as many Americans proclaim it to be. Under Obama it has taken a hesitant first step in the reform of its health care system; it now needs to reform itself politically and economically in order to catch up to nations that once used to trail it.

 

[JLM]

A plus for the USA: Lake Tahoe. It's one of my favorite places in the world (well, out of all the places I've been).

Yeah, especially the Nevada side, actually came out ahead in some of those casinos. There is about five of them.

 

[AnnaG]

Good for those countries, but I mean, try setting up an education system that is meant to take care of about 50 million children. It's not easy.

It can't be that much different than setting one up for 50,000 or even 5000. Once you set standards and hire enough people to educate and administer the standards, the population numbers don't really matter.
Sometimes slinging large numbers around just isn't impressive to people.

 

[Icarus27k]

It can't be that much different than setting one up for 50,000.

I must disagree. That is about 50 million individual children that the USA has set up an ideal to teach each one as an individual. Come on, the USA doesn't even get points for that?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

My opinion of the United States of America... turned out to be a surprisingly complex and difficult question to answer honestly once I started thinking about it deeply. It's the richest, most powerful, most globally dominant nation in the history of human civilization, no doubt about that, founded on the noblest of Enlightenment principles, no doubt about that either (just read the founding documents), and certainly one of the most generous and open and magnanimous nations there's ever been, that's clear from the history of the Marshall Plan that rebuilt a devastated Europe after WW2 and its behaviour during the post war occupation of Japan. But--there's always a but, because no nation is perfect--I think America has lost her way to some degree in the post WW2 era, lost sight of her founding values, and become just one more in a succession of imperial powers that have tried to run the world for its own benefit. It too will fall, eventually, and that'll be a very sad day, because its successor is very unlikely to be as civilized.

 

[AnnaG]

I must disagree. That is about 50 million individual children that the USA has set up an ideal to teach each one as an individual. Come on, the USA doesn't even get points for that?

I posted the numbers on education. Besides once the standards are set it is up to each individual locale to rig their school system to meet the standards.
If you have a 10 room house and have to vacuum it it would take a shorter time period to vacuum than a 100 room house but it isn't any more difficult.

 

[AnnaG]

My opinion of the United States of America... turned out to be a surprisingly complex and difficult question to answer honestly once I started thinking about it deeply. It's the richest, most powerful, most globally dominant nation in the history of human civilization, no doubt about that, founded on the noblest of Enlightenment principles, no doubt about that either (just read the founding documents), and certainly one of the most generous and open and magnanimous nations there's ever been, that's clear from the history of the Marshall Plan that rebuilt a devastated Europe after WW2 and its behaviour during the post war occupation of Japan. But--there's always a but, because no nation is perfect--I think America has lost her way to some degree in the post WW2 era, lost sight of her founding values, and become just one more in a succession of imperial powers that have tried to run the world for its own benefit. It too will fall, eventually, and that'll be a very sad day, because its successor is very unlikely to be as civilized.

Yup. Like I said, it would seem to me that the job of a country is to keep its citizens safe and happy, however. I posted the links about happiness.

 

[Icarus27k]

You can even look at the list you provided. There's gotta to be more than a coincidence why the other most populous countries (China, India, Indonesia) don't make it.

Sure, there are things that work regardless of population, but there are other things that make the job of the countries with the more people harder.

 

[Icarus27k]

I'm sorry, but when you have a problem with overpopulation at public schools, and the drain on resources that comes along with it, it certainly does seem like the number of kids matter.

 

[AnnaG]

You can even look at the list you provided. There's gotta to be more than a coincidence why the other most populous countries (China, India, Indonesia) don't make it.

If you want to go this route, Ic, you'll have to include other factors such as resources, too. For instance, the US has huge resources and yet it cannot educate its people as well as a din ky little place like Iceland? Iceland's population is 100th the size of the USA BUT its net worth is loads less than the USA's.

Sure, there are things that work regardless of population, but there are other things that make the job of the countries with the more people harder.

Apparently feeding and housing them suffers, yes. That was one of my points earlier. As Dexter said, the USA is a very good nation over all but I don't think I'd call it the greatest. It's only the greatest in some things. Education isn't one of those things.

 

[AnnaG]

I'm sorry, but when you have a problem with overpopulation at public schools, and the drain on resources that comes along with it, it certainly does seem like the number of kids matter.

Ic, you are just bolstering my position that the USA isn't all that great, at least concerning education.

 

[Icarus27k]

I stand by my comparison to the other most populous countries and why it's difficult for them to make it onto the list of best education systems. They can't all be stumbling in their use of resources. It's more difficult for a society to educate and take care nearly 50 million children than for a significantly less population.

You can't teach each of the 49.8 million as individuals and it not be more difficult than, say, teaching 10 million as individuals.

It's an amazing feat that the USA can do that every year.

 

[Icarus27k]

Come to think of it, as this discussion has progressed, I don't know how one can make some comparisons about qualities of countries without taking populations into account. There has to be a weighting system of some sort.

It makes sense that a higher population is going to face slightly different problems than a lower population.

 

[AnnaG]

I stand by my comparison to the other most populous countries and why it's difficult for them to make it onto the list of best education systems. They can't all be stumbling in their use of resources. It's more difficult for a society to educate and take care nearly 50 million children than for a significantly less population.

Like I said, if you want to go this road you have to consider more than just the factor of population. How many more teachers does the US have over say, Iceland? It should be easier to teach kids with more teachers. How many schools are there in comparison to Iceland? How much money does the US throw into its schools over Iceland?

You can't teach each of the 49.8 million as individuals and it not be more difficult than, say, teaching 10 million as individuals.

Why?

It's an amazing feat that the USA can do that every year.

It's an amazing feat for any developed country to educate their kids.

 

[AnnaG]

Come to think of it, as this discussion has progressed, I don't know how one can make some comparisons about qualities of countries without taking populations into account. There has to be a weighting system of some sort.

There is. That's why people that assess countries' abilities and stuff do so on a per capita basis.

It makes sense that a higher population is going to face slightly different problems than a lower population.

Ya think? Different is not necessarily defined as more difficult.

 

[Cliffy]

My list:
1. American people are just people, like any other. Some are great, some are morons.
2. Their political system could use a redesign. Ya can't tell the Dems from the Reps. Both are in the pocket of the bankers and large corporations. They need to repress half the world to keep their military busy. They elect some scapegoat every four years so they have someone to burn in effigy everytime things don't go their way.
3. Their military may be one of the most technologically advanced, but they abuse that superiority and should have their pee pees whacked.
4. American industry has a "the world is our oyster" attitude, no matter who they have to screw over to get what they want, which is just about everything.
5. They have one of the highest crime rates because the country is run by criminals; an elite that thinks it lives outside the law. Lately they've been getting caught with their pants down (literally).
6. Their education system produces zombies for the factory, much like Canada, only worse.

That is it in a nut shell, and because they have 10 times more people, they have at least ten times more nut cases.

 

[AnnaG]

My list:
1. American people are just people, like any other. Some are great, some are morons.
2. Their political system could use a redesign. Ya can't tell the Dems from the Reps. Both are in the pocket of the bankers and large corporations. They need to repress half the world to keep their military busy. They elect some scapegoat every four years so they have someone to burn in effigy everytime things don't go their way.
3. Their military may be one of the most technologically advanced, but they abuse that superiority and should have their pee pees whacked.
4. American industry has a "the world is our oyster" attitude, no matter who they have to screw over to get what they want, which is just about everything.
5. They have one of the highest crime rates because the country is run by criminals; an elite that thinks it lives outside the law. Lately they've been getting caught with their pants down (literally).
6. Their education system produces zombies for the factory, much like Canada, only worse.

That is it in a nut shell, and because they have 10 times more people, they have at least ten times more nut cases.

1. Yup. 2. IMO, they should return to the design that their forefathers had for the country. 3. I think their idea of "defense" has become a bit warped alright. 4. Yeah, well, I think that's true for more than just the USA. 5. No. They have lots of crime because of the disparity between those who have and those who have not.
6. No. There are some awfully bright minds that come from US schools that are not profit driven. Same as any other developed country. They are 10th on the list which isn't terribly bad.

 

[Icarus27k]

I submit that there is some factor beyond resources at work, and that's why the most populous countries are missing from your list.

Why is it more difficult to teach a higher population? Because when you look at each of the members of the population as an equal individual, taking proper care of one is a hard task, much less more than one. The respect afforded to the individual student just implies that more individuals mean more difficult work. That's what is beyond resources in determining difficulity of work.

Taking care of nearly 50 million sons and daughters earns the USA some accomplishment points.

 

[Icarus27k]

I think any reasonable person would give higher population countries/areas more slack because I know the problems they face are more difficult. I do that. Just for the simple facts that people are equal individuals and population doesn't necessarily imply resources.

 

[AnnaG]

I submit that there is some factor beyond resources at work, and that's why the most populous countries are missing from your list.

It isn't my list. I just found it. The experts on such matters developed the list.

Why is it more difficult to teach a higher population? Because when you look at each of the members of the population as an equal individual, taking proper care of one is a hard task, much less more than one. The respect afforded to the individual student just implies that more individuals mean more difficult work. That's what is beyond resources in determining difficulity of work.

It isn't as if their are 50 million different types of kids, you know. If there was, setting a public standard for their education would literally be impossible.
I can teach two kids the same type just as well as I can teach one. (I coach soccer).

Taking care of nearly 50 million sons and daughters earns the USA some accomplishment points.

That's fine, but it isn't the topic of the thread.

So it would seem that Americans are pretty much the only people that think their country is the greatest ever and they don't take realities into account.