Wal-Mart Is Facing Latest Salvo From Union

[petros]

Take away that protective shroud and the unions are toothless.

Skilled trades have the economy by the balls. If trade Unionists walked off the job in all aspects of oil, the industry would be ****ed. Some goes for commercial and industrial construction.

Look at CLAC as an example.Non-Union but try acting like one. Taking on contracts and falling short heavily on skilled guys? Why? Why are they failing so horribly as a labour pool?

in Northern SK mines are punting the non-union guys and going with union because it's cheaper and far higher quality.

It was **** labour that cost Cameco a fortune of a high grade ore mine being flooded and they aren't going to let that happen again. 5 years of losses during all time high uranium prices thanks to piss poor so called "skilled" labour put the union guy back in.

 

[cranky]

It is hard to beleive that everyone would be able to negotiate a better salary. It is absurd to sugeest that they know how to greive or dispute arbitrary decisions and discriminatory practises made by lazy incompetant managers.

 

[captain morgan]

Skilled trades have the economy by the balls. If trade Unionists walked off the job in all aspects of oil, the industry would be ****ed. Some goes for commercial and industrial construction.

So, you're saying that the only skilled tradesmen are unionized and that they (as a union) control the entire economy?.... Truly impressive.

Here's the first 1/2 of the equation; without an investment/capital entity that forms under a corporate body, you don't have an economy in which a trade union can exist.

It was **** labour that cost Cameco a fortune of a high grade ore mine being flooded and they aren't going to let that happen again. 5 years of losses during all time high uranium prices thanks to piss poor so called "skilled" labour put the union guy back in.

That's one interesting example... Cominco, New Holland and Weyheuser are also interesting examples.

 

[taxslave]

You must live in a dream world. Rarely have I encountered a situation where individual workers in a chain store have any bargaining power regardless of their work ethic. In fact I know of cases in which good workers in stores like Staples were refused full time work in spite of having superior work records simply to make sure that they were denied benefits. The history of the trade union movement shows that individual workers have few if any leverage when it comes to bargaining with an employer. Thousands of them banding together do.



Read my reply to Taxslave.

Never worked in a chain store so I will have to take your word for it. But in my industries good workers even sometimes in large companies have been able to negotiate side deals. IMO any company that does not do this is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face. Granted it probably would not work in government but even there bonuses can be used to retain good employees.
Thousands of workers banding together have also forced the closure of businesses putting all of them out of work. That does not strike me as a particularly smart move to loose your job on a principle. This has happened many times in the forest industry.
This is also what is going to happen with the militant and not too bright postal workers. They are going to fall because they are not willing to give up some of the excessive bennies they have which is not sustainable. Much like what is happening in Greece where the country is bankrupt yet the socialists are demanding their entitlements even if their grandchildren have to pay for their greed. So how is their union helping them?

It is hard to beleive that everyone would be able to negotiate a better salary. It is absurd to sugeest that they know how to greive or dispute arbitrary decisions and discriminatory practises made by lazy incompetant managers.

That is true and one of the main reasons to have a union. However when they walk off the job because someone got fired for being drunk on the job they loose all credibility Or shutting down a mine because the oranges were not union picked. Ridged adherence to job descriptions also adds to cost for no reason and can make a company non competitive. Used to call it featherbedding.

 

[cranky]

Never worked in a chain store so I will have to take your word for it. But in my industries good workers even sometimes in large companies have been able to negotiate side deals. IMO any company that does not do this is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face. Granted it probably would not work in government but even there bonuses can be used to retain good employees.
Thousands of workers banding together have also forced the closure of businesses putting all of them out of work. That does not strike me as a particularly smart move to loose your job on a principle. This has happened many times in the forest industry.
This is also what is going to happen with the militant and not too bright postal workers. They are going to fall because they are not willing to give up some of the excessive bennies they have which is not sustainable. Much like what is happening in Greece where the country is bankrupt yet the socialists are demanding their entitlements even if their grandchildren have to pay for their greed. So how is their union helping them?



That is true and one of the main reasons to have a union. However when they walk off the job because someone got fired for being drunk on the job they loose all credibility Or shutting down a mine because the oranges were not union picked. Ridged adherence to job descriptions also adds to cost for no reason and can make a company non competitive. Used to call it featherbedding.

It is managements right and responsibility to screen their workforce.

When a workforce walks off the job for a bad worker, it is ussually a lazy incompetant manager that is to blame. Poor managers will often ignore the performance of bad employees until one day they get fed up and say "thats it, im firing this guy here and now"

The problem with this approach, the poor manager uses a discriminatory reason to fire the poor worker, leaving the union in a bad position because in order to oppose the discrimination they are having to defend a worker that no one respects.

 

[captain morgan]

It is managements right and responsibility to screen their workforce.

The do screen, but the system isn't infallible.

When a workforce walks off the job for a bad worker,

... And that's problem #1, the union bends over backwards to preserve the position of that bad worker.

The problem with this approach, the poor manager uses a discriminatory reason to fire the poor worker, leaving the union in a bad position because in order to oppose the discrimination they are having to defend a worker that no one respects.

Here's problem #2: The union employs absolutely no reason or logic in protecting a substandard worker, they do it for the brotherhood and it results in all of them looking like idiots.

 

[taxslave]

It is managements right and responsibility to screen their workforce.

When a workforce walks off the job for a bad worker, it is ussually a lazy incompetant manager that is to blame. Poor managers will often ignore the performance of bad employees until one day they get fed up and say "thats it, im firing this guy here and now"

The problem with this approach, the poor manager uses a discriminatory reason to fire the poor worker, leaving the union in a bad position because in order to oppose the discrimination they are having to defend a worker that no one respects.

I would have to say that you have never been a manager in a unionized work place. It is not that simple to fire a union worker unless they have been there less than 30 days. Often other workers will help cover up a problem as well.

 

[cranky]

I would have to say that you have never been a manager in a unionized work place. It is not that simple to fire a union worker unless they have been there less than 30 days. Often other workers will help cover up a problem as well.

Management requires a brain, when they start to fill the management positions with comppetitant staff, there will be no reason to use lazy and discriminatory practises to screen their workforce.

 

[captain morgan]

Management requires a brain, when they start to fill the management positions with comppetitant staff, there will be no reason to use lazy and discriminatory practises to screen their workforce.

Correction: Management needs only slightly more of a brain than the unionized workforce.

 

[cranky]

Why

Correction: Management needs only slightly more of a brain than the unionized workforce.

why are there more competant shop stuarts than competant managers?

 

[captain morgan]

Whywhy are there more competant shop stuarts than competant managers?

Competent in what areas?

 

[cranky]

Honouring procedure and policy rather than trying to get away with discriminatory actions. Imo, every time a manager fails to do their job, it costs the union and company alot of time and money. Companies would be doing themselves a favor if they fired management more often

 

[captain morgan]

Back up the bus here cranky.. Both management and the union can have their own unique policies and procedures. And if you want to speak of discriminatory practices, please explain how it is that the union doesn't discriminate against those above-average workers by inhibiting their advancement or (deserved) pay increases.

Everytime that an incompetent worker f*cks-up or the union demands that sick days can be banked as holiday, costs a hell of a lot more money than a poor manager.. On that note, sub standard managers are weeded-out, unlike an poorly performing union worker.

 

[petros]

So, you're saying that the only skilled tradesmen are unionized and that they (as a union) control the entire economy?.... Truly impressive.

Here's the first 1/2 of the equation; without an investment/capital entity that forms under a corporate body, you don't have an economy in which a trade union can exist.

That's one interesting example... Cominco, New Holland and Weyheuser are also interesting examples.

Nope you said that. I said they have them by the balls because of the numbers and the skill pool is unbeatable. Is there another way to make a handfull of phonecalls to get a project going without delay and trial and error on staffing?

Weyerhauser ( taken many many a Socialist bail out) was killed by tree huggers and the FTA. Well known I don't know why you didn't know that.

Cominco Killed by tree huggers, rock bottom mineral prices, mergers and FTA.

Why did FIAT, owners of Case/New Holland need your's and my money for a bail out? Was that because of labour?

You knew that in 2007 our Socialist Harper Govt loaned money to Buhler Versatile to to keep the Winnipeg plant running?

What do Unions have to have to do with tree huggers, they've always opposed NA(FTA) and lack of VA products rather than raw goods exportation and whatever happened to there being a Canadian division of foreign corps so they had to pay full taxes and reinvest into Canada?

Last spring I slapped down over $500K on a new New Holland combine and Tier 4A tractor and a couple other odds and ends.

How much of that half million was labour and materials?

 

[cranky]

Back up the bus here cranky.. Both management and the union can have their own unique policies and procedures. And if you want to speak of discriminatory practices, please explain how it is that the union doesn't discriminate against those above-average workers by inhibiting their advancement or (deserved) pay increases.

Everytime that an incompetent worker f*cks-up or the union demands that sick days can be banked as holiday, costs a hell of a lot more money than a poor manager.. On that note, sub standard managers are weeded-out, unlike an poorly performing union worker.

Only an incompetant manager would spend time focused on arbitrary and discriminatory bench marks to define the terms 'superior' and 'substandard' yet still remain in total ignorance of the existing policies and procedure that are agreed upon by all. If management spent more time doing their jobs, and less time whining and crying about stuff that has yet to be agreed upon, the company would make more profit.

 

[captain morgan]

Nope you said that. I said they have them by the balls because of the numbers and the skill pool is unbeatable. Is there another way to make a handfull of phonecalls to get a project going without delay and trial and error on staffing?

The trades people are mercenaries to begin with and the advent of more accommodating service companies from overseas will dictate that message to the NA trade unions really fast.

Regardless, the fact still remains that trade unions do not exist without a corporate body that has the capital... Scare-off the capital and the union dissolves (read Canadian Airlines International).

Weyerhauser ( taken many many a Socialist bail out) was killed by tree huggers and the FTA. Well known I don't know why you didn't know that. Cominco Killed by tree huggers, rock bottom mineral prices, mergers and FTA.

Both companies couldn't compete because of gvt intervention & regulation and taxes as well as the high cost of labor... Commodities prices are beyond their control, but during those times when the prices are low, the unions, once again, demand raises and impractical benefits packages that tip the scale too far.

The trade unions in both cases achieved nothing more than driving down the cost of their services in the marketplace as there are now fewer jobs for more people.

Why did FIAT, owners of Case/New Holland need your's and my money for a bail out? Was that because of labour?

You tell me?.. Think it might have had anything to do with the cost of doing business in Canada?... No wonder the unions oppose any kind of free trade agreement, now they have to actually compete in terms of service, quality, price and efficiency.

You knew that in 2007 our Socialist Harper Govt loaned money to Buhler Versatile to to keep the Winnipeg plant running?

What do Unions have to have to do with tree huggers, they've always opposed NA(FTA) and lack of VA products rather than raw goods exportation and whatever happened to there being a Canadian division of foreign corps so they had to pay full taxes and reinvest into Canada?

Last spring I slapped down over $500K on a new New Holland combine and Tier 4A tractor and a couple other odds and ends.

You should have hired a trade union to plant and pull your crops off of the field.

 

[petros]

Regardless, the fact still remains that trade unions do not exist without a
corporate body that has the capital... Scare-off the capital and the union
dissolves (read Canadian Airlines International).

They are pretty handy at creating their own work using pension capital. It has saved many a plant closure that would have otherwise decimated a town or small city. If you look into what CPP is investing and what Unions are investing in and it is very much parallel.

Did you get a chance to review some of the investments Unions have made into urban development. How many Union pension funds are invested in the very things that are keeping the economy going?

Go over this handful of Unions and their investment into Canada in just one fund....

Welcome to Concert – A Developer With A Difference

Exclusively Owned by Canadians

All company shareholders are union and management pension funds, representing Canadian workers. They are the strength behind Concert's success and take great pride in our achievements.
Because of our shareholders' commitment to Concert, we have been able to create more than 16.6 million person hours of on-site employment for members of the BC & Yukon Building Trades and the Federation of Labour, and contributed more than $72.3 million back to affiliated pension, health and welfare plans.




Pension plans that invest in Concert are:

• Boilermakers' Pension Trust Fund
• Bricklayers and Masons Pension Plan
• Carpentry Workers' Pension Plan of B.C.
• Ceramic Tile Workers' Pension Plan
• Local 213 Electrical Workers Pension Plan
• Floorlayers' Industry Pension Plan
• Heat & Frost Local 118 Union Pension Plan
• IWA - Forest Industry Pension Plan
• B.C. Labourers' Pension Plan
• Marine and Shipbuilders Local 506 Pension Plan
• Operating Engineers' Pension Plan
• Piledrivers, Divers, Bridge, Dock & Wharf Builders Pension Plan
• The Plumbers Union Local 170 Pension Plan
• The Pulp and Paper Industry Pension Plan
• Shopworkers Industrial Union Local 1928 Pension Plan
• Teamsters (Local 213) Pension Plan
• Teamsters Canadian Pension Plan
• Telecommunication Workers Pension Plan
• United Food and Commercial Workers Union Pension Plan

The trades people are mercenaries to begin with and the advent of more
accommodating service companies from overseas will dictate that message to the
NA trade unions really fast.

That's ****ing hillarious! Unions are all over the planet. Majority of investment has been coming from European UNION.

Regardless, the fact still remains that trade unions do not exist without a
corporate body that has the capital... Scare-off the capital and the union
dissolves (read Canadian Airlines International).

Wages were never an issue. They bascially got a handful of peanuts which barely covers inflation and that was fine by them.

Both companies couldn't compete because of gvt intervention & regulation
and taxes as well as the high cost of labor... Commodities prices are beyond
their control, but during those times when the prices are low, the unions, once
again, demand raises and impractical benefits packages that tip the scale too
far.

The trade unions in both cases achieved nothing more than driving down the
cost of their services in the marketplace as there are now fewer jobs for more
people.

Labour cost have never been a issue. Like I asked out of $500k how much was labour and materials for New Holland? I paid shipping and dealer set-up costs ontop of the purchase price as well. What are their profits per unit @ a cost of $250K

You tell me?.. Think it might have had anything to do with the cost of doing
business in Canada?... No wonder the unions oppose any kind of free trade
agreement, now they have to actually compete in terms of service, quality, price
and efficiency.

Really. Guess what sunshine. Harper, the US and Mexico are working out deals for labour mobility. If you have your Red Seal and are a Yank. Canada awaits. Harper is a Socialist because NAU is going to be Socialist.

You should have hired a trade union to plant and pull your crops off of the
field.

Nah, I'll hire a Mexican under Harper's NAU Socialist Human Capital invesment plan where we have to pay to educated Mexicans so they can come work here using NAU Socialist Worker mobilty permits and give them full Canadian benefits while here working. I'll pay him minimum wage ($10 & something an hr in SK) and make him pay $800 a month to live in a grain bin.

Harpo Marx is a dandy Socialist. He and Jack Lenin and BobTrotsky will turn this nation upside down in no time. You're gonna hate it.

 

[taxslave]

And then there is the Ontario Teachers pension plan that is/was a major shareholder in Timberwest. The company that closed all their mills, fired all their company loggers, contracted out all the logging including engineering and planing and sell all their timber overseas. Now that is union greed at its finest. But everyone knows that fat pensions for teachers in Ontario are more important than paycheques for families in smalltown BC

Only an incompetant manager would spend time focused on arbitrary and discriminatory bench marks to define the terms 'superior' and 'substandard' yet still remain in total ignorance of the existing policies and procedure that are agreed upon by all. If management spent more time doing their jobs, and less time whining and crying about stuff that has yet to be agreed upon, the company would make more profit.

That depends. Often the manager is simply a middleman. Head office negotiates the collective agreement for the entire company and then directs the branch manager to push the terms as hard as he/she can. And the manager does because his job is on the line.

 

[petros]

And then there is the Ontario Teachers pension plan that is/was a major shareholder in Timberwest. The company that closed all their mills, fired all their company loggers, contracted out all the logging including engineering and planing and sell all their timber overseas. Now that is union greed at its finest. But everyone knows that fat pensions for teachers in Ontario are more important than paycheques for families in smalltown BC

You've got something against Capitalism? I suppose they are the reason the Maple Leafs suck too because they own them?

 

[Tonington]

Now that is union greed at its finest.

That's capitalism.