Oil Sands are Alberta staples
- Thread starter Durry
- Start date
Yeah, my cost might be a little high all right. I thought I came accross this number somewhere.
But I think it depends if it's a mining operation or a SAGD operation.
I would think the mining operation would be far more expensive than SAGD.
So, maybe one has to state the technology being used when stating the cost/bbl.
I'll check around and see if I can come up with a better cost number.
This web site says costs are $27/bbl.
Are Canadian Tar Sands Profitable?
Will have to look at other articles.
Here a copy from a Wiki article.
"The capital cost of the equipment required to mine the sands and haul it to processing is a major consideration in starting production. The NEB estimates that capital costs raise the total cost of production to C$18 to C$20 per barrel for a new mining operation and C$18 to C$22 per barrel for a SAGD operation. This does not include the cost of upgrading the crude bitumen to synthetic crude oil, which makes the final costs C$36 to C$40 per barrel for a new mining operation."
I guess one really has to put a lot of parameters around the costs whenever stating the cost/bbl
Typically in these type of risky investments, they like to see it pay off in 2 to 3 yrs.
Risky? Why do you think oil is around $100 a barrel? That what is needed to deveope several major projects on the planet. AB Oil Sands is just one of them. Same with Orinoco heavy oil, Madagascar oil sands, Northern Iraq oil sands.....
Not off the top of my head. Can't remember where I read about it either. Probably MacLeans or Vancouver Sun business section. I don't follow the oil patch very closely but as I recall the article related it to how US lumber interests play both sides of the fence in the softwood lumber agreement. That one is twisted but goes something like this: Whyrehouser sp? and others has mills and timber on both sides of the border but has actively pursued a protectionist stance. It has to do with the payments our lumber companies have to make to the US lumber barons so by penalizing their Canadian operations somehow the US parent comes out ahead from the loot the tariffs bring in. The US lumber interests also finance anti logging protesters in Canada in an effort to cut imports to raise the domestic price, in effect ripping off their own people.
SAGD will be the flavor of the month due to the smear campaign over the strip mining operations....which is actually only a small percent of the recovery process in the sands...
I say with some pride that I was involved in the AOSTRA pilot project for the first SAGD experiment.....
I say with some pride that I was involved in the AOSTRA pilot project for the first SAGD experiment.....
I'm glad oil sands is taking all the heat off the nuclear resource developement...
Merry Christmas!!!
Merry Christmas!!!
That actually seems to be quite reasonable when you consider the amount of work that went on from the first road and the first barrel of finished product. Some 'costs' that don't make it to the books is the fresh water.
Synthetic usually means oil that is 'slicker' than oil that doesn't contain a certain type of carbon. (I assume)
Basically soot qualifies as a source of carbon in the same structure as the stitching on a soccer-ball. Since they are very tiny and very smooth they provide the least amount of friction when put between to moving pieces, especially heavy ones. The carbon in the tarsands might be rich in soot rather than being closer to liquid-coal.
What sort of raw material would you get from a tropical jungle that gets a layer of 'cool ash' to the depth of a meter and then a heat-wave in the 100's of degrees would heat the ash and that would 'cook the vegetation so it turned to pure carbon', the gasses that would have been released would have been volatile so by the time they finished venting and burning the land would have been sterile again, waiting for wind and birds to bring the seeds that would start the process of a new layer that would eventually suffer the same fate. Regular forest fires need a dry season and tropical places would burn like a wet sponge. Volcanic ash is sharp, so is the sand in the tar-sands and depending on the layout on the ground it could have been moved by 'extreme forces' like glaciers advancing and retreating
Anyway that would be a pretty expensive operation just to be able to add soot to oil to make it many times more efficient. You can make (or find) soot anyplace a carbon fire is burning with less than 100% efficiency, for a car it would be found in most exhaust piles. Something held low in a candle-flame will collect large amounts of soot. Soot is also refereed to as Bucky-balls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene
If the huge area has various grades of product I assume the place being explored now is one that is rich in 'tar' and not so much 'sand'. The places with more 'sand' than 'tar' might be the right combination to have a use that closer to being used 'raw', Say the 'garbage' that Sask/Manitoba might have has a ratio that makes it ideal for building high waterproof levees, a raw building material that could be shipped like normal dry sand yet when lightly compacted in a warm place it would bind together is one solid moisture resistant 'brick'. (without having any 'oil slicks' leeching out, about the same rate as oxidized asphalt would be ideal in a crop growing area)
You know what they say about assuming....
Really? I know of an oil company that bought an aquifer from a city. The city made a fortune.
I'm not sure what you are on about MHz....there is no" soot" in the oil sands...it is coke and when removed looks and has similar properties to coal. Also you don't want soot in the synthetic crude..it is highly valued because there is no coke or sulfur in it ..
The coke and sulfer are highly prized all on their own.
If heavy oil and bitumen were halted today, the entire aviation fleet of Canada, the CDN Air Force, the American Air Force, a big chiunk of ships at sea, trucks that deliver your food and porn, and trains that deliver all our goods to exports would all grind to a halt too.
Are any of you prepared to see that happen?
If heavy oil and bitumen were halted today, the entire aviation fleet of Canada, the CDN Air Force, the American Air Force, a big chiunk of ships at sea, trucks that deliver your food and porn, and trains that deliver all our goods to exports would all grind to a halt too.
Are any of you prepared to see that happen?
"Synthetic crude is then shipped to oil refineries where it is further upgraded into finished products."
What would be the product list? Cold Lake is close by and it is known for it's heavy crude rather than aviation fuel.
How many does that leave that use fresh water and no money is ever collected for the Province as a natural resource that is used?
Heavy crude is pumped from the ground. Bitumen is mined. Ft Crack isn't the upgrader and refinery that makes the fuels I just mentioned. It's not even in Alberta
Too bad, that would make it valuable as a lubricating agent. I still don't know what each barrels is manufactured into
Petros, what does that mean? There are upgraders in Ft. Mac and Edmonton....and heavy oil upgrader in Lloydminster....
Mhz...Resouces are a provincial matter...of course they get the proceeds of sellilng oil and gas...the trick is to keep Ottawa's greedy meat hooks out...like the great dirtbag Trudeau once tried to do...
Mhz...Resouces are a provincial matter...of course they get the proceeds of sellilng oil and gas...the trick is to keep Ottawa's greedy meat hooks out...like the great dirtbag Trudeau once tried to do...
Some processes use steam injection to heat it up so it will flow. Venezuela uses natural gas to be used to pressure up the hole so it flows, when the hole is dead the gas is collected and sent to market. I'm not sure if we do that method or not
In the find below would it be mined or pumped? 200M overburden
Tar Sands slowly Expanding into northwest Saskatchewan | Oil Sands Truth: Shut down the Tar Sands
The one that makes the jet fuel, bunker oil and diesel that keeps the goods moving and the planes in the air is in Regina and it's getting far far far bigger.
Mining is not feasible with 200m of overburden..it will be produced by SAGD methods....
"shut down the oil sands" haha kind of a silly site...ain't gonna happen...
Yes I believe there is one in Regina as well but it would use heavy or light crude for feedstock..
"shut down the oil sands" haha kind of a silly site...ain't gonna happen...
Yes I believe there is one in Regina as well but it would use heavy or light crude for feedstock..