Zionist Control of US Policy

[darkbeaver]

I'll expand on what Tracy said, although she is correct.

First of all, seperation of Church and State is an AMERICAN concept, not Canadian, as so aptly demonstrated by the fact that our Head of State is also head of the Anglican Church.

Secondly, even in the USA, the constitutional divide is very slight.....it simply requires that Congress make no law establishing an official gov't religion........that is it. That has been wildly expanded by the "living Constitution" crew, as sorry a bunch as one can imagine IMHO.

Thirdly, you can not seperate Church and State in a nation that is a democracy.....and very religious. If religion is a major factor in peoples' lives, it will influence how they vote and what they expect from gov't.....so the divide is never that wide.....

Nice tidy explanation Colpy. Now if religion could be replaced with the truth we would have nirvana.

 

[Cannuck]

Now if religion could be replaced with the truth we would have nirvana.

But if we replaced religion would we not lose nirvana. Isn't the concept derived from Buddhism and Jainism. Why don't we such say we would have a really great high.

 

[Scott Free]

Although I'm now gonna try and tear it apart.......

I should hope so ;-)

I doubt the USA would have been "overwhelmed" by Jewish refugees, as they could have done the same as Canada, and simply refused to take them in.....with the full compliance of the general population.

Not likely if the USA was the reason that Israel couldn't form. It was also US policy not to side with the Arabs. It was their intention to stay neutral and leave the tough stuff to Britain, however, that didn't work out so well.

You are dead on that the USA used Israel as a counter to Soviet presence in the ME during the Cold War.

Well a guy can't be wrong all the time - can they? :lol:

But I think you missed the reason for continued American support for Israel, which is, let's face it, very ofter counter-productive to American interest in the region.......I think there are four basic reasons for it:

1. History: the Jewish state used to be the darling of the progressives with the Kibbutz and the powerful Labour party and the fact so many were persecuted by the Nazis, and they were seen as the underdog........I remember the awe, the admiration, the glee at Israeli success in the Six Day War.........little Israel, nation of a devasted ethnic group, the 99 pound guy that was always beaten up, kicks the bully-boy (Egypt) in the kneecaps, and when the bully's buddies come to save him, little Israel pounds the bejesus out of all comers, in very little time....truth or not, that is the "inspiring" vision most Americans had at the time.

An emotional response was not Truman's reason. I suspect he worried that the Jews would seek the aid of the USSR at that time. It was a very big concern that Zionism was a kind of communism.

2. Ideology: the Jewish state is seen as being "one of us" with a working constitution, a viable robust democratic tradition, a dedication to western values.........they are seen as a natural ally surrounded by vicious Arab despots, the best of which is an actual King, fer God's sake.......worthy of our aid.......

That is modern rhetoric and as I said in my original argument it is easier to sustain established friendships then forge new ones and this alone is why it seems as though the two have similar interests.

The reality is that the Americans were doing great business in the ME and were having no problems with the Arabs. The US is only ever concerned with democracy and freedom when that concern is in their best interest. We see an example of that in their lack of support for Hamas and Chavez who were both democratically elected and should therefore warrant US support and also in Saudi Arabia which is now going to own a brand new shiny US nuclear reactor!

3. Militarily: A dependable foothold in a strategic position. Very strategiic.

It is only now. The US could have forged an alliance with any ME country before they aligned with Israel - even Iran or Palestine! The problems and differences we see today stem solely from the USA's support of Israel and are not ideological (though they are spun that way to rally popular support).

4. As Israel was the baby of the intellectual moderate left, it is now the baby of the religious right.......how could any good bible-thumper, be anti-Israel?????

You have got to be kidding me. The lunatic right supports Isreal only because they think once they have their country god will wipe them out - hardly supportive - and then Mithra, oops... I mean Jesus, will return.

It is very difficult for me to write out all the quotes and evidence for my statements but they mostly come from this source: Power, Faith and Fantasy by Michael B. Oren. It seems to be an excellent book on this topic. I'm certainly no expert but he for sure is. The version of things your giving is the fantasy and propaganda that always contributes to the cloud of war, which BTW I fully understand, since I too subscribed to the popular rhetoric until I had read this more neutral matter of fact version of events.

 

[Zzarchov]

You are saying that Gazans are better off than First Nation reserves are here in Canada??? I admit the state of many First Nation Reserves are a disgrace, but you can't expect anyone to take you seriously with comments like the above.

Are you serious? Thats your utter tragedy?

Broken houses? 10,000 homeless out of 1.5 million people, do the math on that one. Do you know what MOST of Gaza looks like? Not that. Most of it is untouched.

Even those images, ya..you do see things like that on native resereves through disrepair and lack of income instead of bombs though.

The difference is that instead of being fixed by government (Israeli or Canadian) aid in a month, families will continue to live in dillapidated structures.

You have such a very sheltered view of the world. If you don't know how our own country is, I can only guess at how horrible this Gaza issue must seem to you.

But its not as big as you make it out to be. People just care more about what Israel is doing than the suffering of Natives, or Africans, or South Americans or South Asians etcetera etcetera.

 

[einmensch]

Oh Gimme a break!

Olmert hardly has any influence in Israel, much less Washington.

My guess is that Olmert offered to do the unilateral ceasefire in so many days.......bargaining for time.

This stuff is simply idiotic.....and perhaps you could explain why Bush et al have refused repeatedly (and unwisely) to support an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites?

Broken puppet strings? :roll:

Why would you want another break?

Explain why we had a 14-0 vote with the USA abstaining? 8O

 

[einmensch]

Oh Zz-You visited Gaza? Or did you get a pamphlet, that this is the official word ?

 

[Zzarchov]

Oh Zz-You visited Gaza? Or did you get a pamphlet, that this is the official word ?

Have you? Can you prove that is even a signifigant minority of the region let alone a majority?

Tens of Thousands homeless but 1.5 million people. Basic math.

 

[einmensch]

Have you? Can you prove that is even a signifigant minority of the region let alone a majority?

Tens of Thousands homeless but 1.5 million people. Basic math.

Everything is just wonderful in the Gaza Ghetto. Thank you for your unbiased point of view.

 

[Zzarchov]

Everything is just wonderful in the Gaza Ghetto. Thank you for your unbiased point of view.

And apparently everyone is dead in Gaza, everyone, in your unbiased view.

Except you have made your distinct hatred for Jews quite well known, while I have nothing distincly for or against either group, seeing them as simply human beings.

 

[earth_as_one]

Get serious Z. I've been to native reserves and communities throughout Ontario, Manitoba and Nunavut. Yes many have problems. Yes Canada should be ashamed regarding some of them. But no not a single one I've seen is worse than Gaza.

UN chief visits Gaza as forces leave
By Ethan Bronner Published: January 21, 2009

...Ban, the highest-ranking international figure to come to Gaza since the war, visited the United Nations compound, damaged by an Israeli airstrike. He called the attack "outrageous" and demanded an investigation. He said Israel had used excessive force in Gaza. After touring the area, Ban called the destruction "shocking and alarming."

Later, he visited Sderot, the southern Israeli town that had long borne the brunt of Hamas rocket fire, and called such projectiles "appalling," saying their use violates international law. Still, he said, Israel should lift the border closing it had imposed on Gaza, strangling its economy...

UN chief visits Gaza as forces leave - International Herald Tribune

But we are off topic.

 

[einmensch]

And apparently everyone is dead in Gaza, everyone, in your unbiased view.

Except you have made your distinct hatred for Jews quite well known, while I have nothing distincly for or against either group, seeing them as simply human beings.

Do you feel hated? Abnormal as it is, it is part of your personality. Death toll in Gaza Ghetto 1284 dead, 4336 wounded. 894 of the dead were civilians, including 280 children and minors 17 and under, as well as 111 women. 70% murdered by Israelis were civilians. Israel doesn't target civilians they just have accidents 70% of the time. Guess what 4 out ofthe 10 soldiers killed were killed by Israelis. So 40% of the time by accident they kill their own. Oh Zz you are such a mensch.

 

[Zzarchov]

Get serious Z. I've been to native reserves and communities throughout Ontario, Manitoba and Nunavut. Yes many have problems. Yes Canada should be ashamed regarding some of them. But no not a single one I've seen is worse than Gaza.




But we are off topic.

No, its on Topic. When did you go to Gaza? If you've looked around and honestly believe a place that even HAS hospitals is worse than any reserve in Canada, then that kinda settles it now doesnt it?

 

[Colpy]

Do you feel hated? Abnormal as it is, it is part of your personality. Death toll in Gaza Ghetto 1284 dead, 4336 wounded. 894 of the dead were civilians, including 280 children and minors 17 and under, as well as 111 women. 70% murdered by Israelis were civilians. Israel doesn't target civilians they just have accidents 70% of the time. Guess what 4 out ofthe 10 soldiers killed were killed by Israelis. So 40% of the time by accident they kill their own. Oh Zz you are such a mensch.

First of all, let's set out some facts:

Gaza has i.5 million people. Hamas claims 35,000 armed militants in Gaza (doubtful, but we'll take it on that.....)

1284 dead. 4336 wounded. 5620 Gazan casualties total.

It is claimed 894 of the dead were civilians, 390 were militants, which is a 70:30 split innocents to militant casualties.

But wait! Israel claims they can prove 700 dead militants! That is a 46:54 split innocent casualties to militant casualties.

Let's deal with the Israeli claims first....... 46:54 leaves us with 2586 civilian casualties. that means one out of every 580 civilians was harmed, according to the Israelis. As for militants: the Israeli claim would mean 3034 militant casualties, or one out of every 12 militants. That means you were 48 times more apt to be a casualty if you were a militant, by Israeli calculation.

But, Israel is not always perfectly truthful, so lets us the other figues, the 7:3 ratio innocent to militant casualty......even that means 1 out of every 381 Gazan civilians was wounded or killed. One out of every 20 Hamas militants was wounded or killed. That means you were 19 times more apt to be a casualty if you were a militant.......

Israel attacked for 20 days, using the most sophisticated conventional weapons on earth, firing at an enemy hiding amongest the densest population on earth......yet managed to make being a militant AT LEAST19 times as dangerous as being a civilian in Gaza, perhaps as much as 48 times as dangerous.

Targeting civilians?????

Hardly..

 

[darkbeaver]

Israel, what a disgusting bunch of psycopaths. Who's going to miss them when they're gone?
When you target civilian infrastructure you target civilians. Is that simple enough for you Colpy? Israel and the USA are the same nation.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Israel, what a disgusting bunch of psycopaths. Who's going to miss them when they're gone?
When you target civilian infrastructure you target civilians. Is that simple enough for you Colpy? Israel and the USA are the same nation.

So that makes you both a zionist and a yank since Canada is just a satellite state of the US? Must be tough being a zionist beaver these days... :x

 

[darkbeaver]

So that makes you both a zionist and a yank since Canada is just a satellite state of the US? Must be tough being a zionist beaver these days... :x

You are right Durka, I'll off myself soon as I finish the beer.;-)

 

[einmensch]

With sofisticated weapons and GPS co-ordinates provided Israel hit a UN compound. 20,000 buildings-they were all occupied by Hamas fighters. It's sad Colpy. I know what a bombed city looks like and Loon probably does as well. Agreed, the leaders all lie. Poor mothers, children and old--

 

[Zzarchov]

With sofisticated weapons and GPS co-ordinates provided Israel hit a UN compound. 20,000 buildings-they were all occupied by Hamas fighters. It's sad Colpy. I know what a bombed city looks like and Loon probably does as well. Agreed, the leaders all lie. Poor mothers, children and old--

Then you should know that in a "bombed out city" of 1.5 million, in a region of 5 million, there are double digit percentages of homeless, not tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands.

 

[einmensch]

Then you should know that in a "bombed out city" of 1.5 million, in a region of 5 million, there are double digit percentages of homeless, not tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands.

You are correct Zz since it seems that many of these house sheltered circa 25 persons each 20,000 X 25=500,000 homless. Just imagine 500,000 or 10% of the Jews being homeless, no food, now hydro, no fuel, no water and sealed in by a monster. Warsaw Ghetto you say--only in Palestine in 2009

 

[Gilgamesh]

January 17, 2009

Zionist Control of US Policy


Source

I was recently asked to answer the following question: In the original post there is mention of Israel controlling US policy. How exactly does that work?

The short answer is this: A highly influential and extremely well bankrolled collection of groups directs energy simultaneously in a number of directions: Political, media, academic, inter-faith, and other areas, in order to create consent for Israel's policies and to sway politicians to support those policies. The rest of this article examines this process in greater detail, primarily through the words of academics who have studied it for years.

To my mind, Israel's actions, and the extent to which they are enabled by the power of the Zionist lobby is -- or at least should be -- the central moral question confronting Jewish people worldwide, and especially in the US.

To the extent that it isn't, is the clearest indication of the moral degeneration, and ironically, the existential purposelessness which Zionism -- as an answer -- has provided to the Jewish people.

Israel's actions should be of equal concern to any human concerned with Justice and minimizing human suffering, especially Americans and Europeans whose governments support these unjust and genocidal polices, which potentially threaten to escalate and consume the entire world

MORE........ Atheo News: Zionist Control of US Policy

You are not only a sick moronic fool, you are also a liar. The true enemy of society today is the secret agents of the Klingon Empire.