Your thoughts on the Libertarian Party's platform?

Corduroy

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I'd guess that if employers are overly exploitative, that the popularity of unions would grow. If employers treat workers well, unions would shrink naturally.

The libertarian position is that employers will treat workers well to attract better workers and discourage unionism. It's a hyper-rationalist and hyper-optimistic view of the economy. We have historical examples of laissez faire economics. Has business historically treated workers well when given a free reign?

Because libertarians are very pro-personal-liberty in principle, I could imagine some libertarians supporting right to work legislation to prohibit a company from making union membership compulsory. On the flip side, because libertarianism supports deregulation, I could imagine some libertarians opposing such laws, since that itself would be a form if regulation. But even libertarians who should support right to work laws would likely recognize that if employers treat workers unfairly, more people would choose to join a union
.

Supporting the legislation you described would not be ideologically consistent for libertarianism. But the platform you posted does contain compromises, so maybe they could support that kind of legislation.
 

Machjo

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The libertarian position is that employers will treat workers well to attract better workers and discourage unionism. It's a hyper-rationalist and hyper-optimistic view of the economy. We have historical examples of laissez faire economics. Has business historically treated workers well when given a free reign?

.

Supporting the legislation you described would not be ideologically consistent for libertarianism. But the platform you posted does contain compromises, so maybe they could support that kind of legislation.

For all their flaws, I think we can agree that a few Libertarian MP's in Parliament won't have to power to implement their entire platform anyway, just enough to make the CPC fearful of vote splitting.
 

Machjo

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I also agree that the Libertarian Party position on deregulation if the banking sector is foolish.
 

petros

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The Libertarian Party platform states that it would cut corporate subsidies.
Subsidies or tax credits? Very very very few get subsidies. Things like R&D, green tech, infrastructure get subsidies.

For all their flaws, I think we can agree that a few Libertarian MP's in Parliament won't have to power to implement their entire platform anyway, just enough to make the CPC fearful of vote splitting.
Have the Greens swayed a vote? How many did the Bloc throw?
 

Curious Cdn

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Really? I regularly give to charity. Lower my taxes and I'd give more to charity. If government spending was actually going towards helping the neediest, I'd vote NDP, but doesn't. It goes to special interests instead. I don't volunteer much due to time constraints, but I do give money. Though I'm not ideologically libertarian, I can see it as a good place to park my vote till other parties smarten up. So, am I a sociopath?
Since your political views are shared by only 10-12% of Canadians ... well, by definition ...

If you are one of those few percent of your "I'll do whatever the hell I want to and nobody is going to stop me" anarchist brethren, the two groups together probably amount to something like 15% of the populace. The occurance of that sort of mind space is probably similar to the incidence of homosexuality in relation to the greater population. That doesn't make you a sociopath but it certainly does make your behaviour "fringe".
 

taxslave

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Fossil fuel subsidies.


Anyway, Libertarianism is just as nebulous as the other political terms like right wing, left wing, conservatism, authoritarianism, dictatorship, etc.

It encapsulates varying degrees of intensity and can therefore make for people with contradictory views belonging to the same group.

Who gets fossil fuel subsidies? We know it is not oil companies or working people. So that leaves the government and those that choose not to work.
 

Machjo

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Subsidies or tax credits? Very very very few get subsidies. Things like R&D, green tech, infrastructure get subsidies.


Have the Greens swayed a vote? How many did the Bloc throw?

Should Libertarians run candidates nationwide, this could pose a serious vote-splitting threat to precarious Conservative ridings, which would result in the CPC wanting to try to court it.
 

taxslave

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Both are harmful to society and so should be discouraged. Clients of escorts ought to be fined with a doubling of the fine for repeat offences. I oppose imprisonment because of the cost.

Drug dealers ought to suffer prison labour for life or execution.

Yeah I'm far more conservative on those points but if a candidate has other good ideas, it's not a deal breaker for my vote.

Big pharma is the biggest drug dealer in the country. Even have the government providing protection and collections for them.
 

Curious Cdn

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Should Libertarians run candidates nationwide, this could pose a serious vote-splitting threat to precarious Conservative ridings, which would result in the CPC wanting to try to court it.

You don,'t have that much traction. This country is nothing like Arizona. It's a lot more like Denmark.
 

Machjo

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Since your political views are shared by only 10-12% of Canadians ... well, by definition ...

If you are one of those few percent of your "I'll do whatever the hell I want to and nobody is going to stop me" anarchist brethren, the two groups together probably amount to something like 15% of the populace. The occurance of that sort of mind space is probably similar to the incidence of homosexuality in relation to the greater population. That doesn't make you a sociopath but it certainly does make your behaviour "fringe".

The abolition of slavery and universal suffrage for women used to be fringe too.
 

Corduroy

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For all their flaws, I think we can agree that a few Libertarian MP's in Parliament won't have to power to implement their entire platform anyway, just enough to make the CPC fearful of vote splitting.

I wouldn't mind libertarians in parliament, but I wouldn't want any representing me. Let Alberta suffer them.

And I wouldn't want the Conservative party to have to move further to the right to fend off vote splitting from the libertarians. Chances are they would calculate it too risky to lose the centre for the sake of a few nuts.
 

Machjo

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You don,'t have that much traction. This country is nothing like Arizona. It's a lot more like Denmark.

Honestly, if the NDP had policies that were way more like Sweden's overall (though I disagree with some Swedish policies too), I could see myself voting for it. I'm not fundamentally libertarian, but if the government is going to spend stupidly and pass stupid laws, then the Libertarian Party might be a good place to park my vote in the mean time, depending on the local candidate of course.

So was National Socialism and the Bolsheviks

Lol. True enough, true enough.

I wouldn't mind libertarians in parliament, but I wouldn't want any representing me. Let Alberta suffer them.

And I wouldn't want the Conservative party to have to move further to the right to fend off vote splitting from the libertarians. Chances are they would calculate it too risky to lose the centre for the sake of a few nuts.

But are they really nuts? How so?

I also stand corrected on a previous comment. The Libertarian Party of Ontario now supports a voucher programme the details of which I am unfamiliar. The Libertarian Party of Canada would not initiate the removal of separate schools from the constitution but would do so at Ontario's request for Ontario. So unless we have an Libertarian Ontario government, the Federal Libertarians would leave it alone.

Aside from that, they would eliminate official bilingualism or at least reduce it.

They are very open to an internationally open labour market. Many good points.
 

Curious Cdn

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I wouldn't mind libertarians in parliament, but I wouldn't want any representing me. Let Alberta suffer them.

And I wouldn't want the Conservative party to have to move further to the right to fend off vote splitting from the libertarians. Chances are they would calculate it too risky to lose the centre for the sake of a few nuts.

You have Libertarians periodically in Parliament . They always start out as Conservative MPs and then they get pissed off at their party for one thing or another ... a pro abortion stance .. an anti abortion stance ... Cripes, a stance of any kind that runs agasinst their grain and "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" and lo and behold, another independent MP from jerkwater some-where-or-other. The have been times when the centrifugal forces represented by "tough guys" like that have threatened the party's ability to get elected.

Stay home, for gawd sakes. Yell at the CBC , throw your empty beer cans at the screen and stop trying to make the Conservative party less electable. There WILL NOT be a Tea Bag movement, here. It is a different country with a different culture and history and Libertarianism will never fly, Orville.
 
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petros

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Should Libertarians run candidates nationwide, this could pose a serious vote-splitting threat to precarious Conservative ridings, which would result in the CPC wanting to try to court it.
There are Libertarian candidates in SK. Ridings that were NDP strongholds 10 years ago are all now Conservative. Not a one remains and lonely Liberal Ralph remains.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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You have Libertarians periodically in Parliament . They always start out as Conservative MPs and then they get pissed off at their party for one thing or another ... a pro abortion stance .. an anti abortion stance ... Cripes, a stance of any kind that runs agasinst their grain and "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" and lo and behold, another independent MP from jerkwater some-where-or-other. The have been times when the centrifugal forces represented by "tough guys" like that have threatened the party's ability to get elected.

Stay home, for gawd sakes. Yell at the CBC , throw your empty beer cans at the screen and stop trying to make the Conservative party less electable. There WILL NOT be a Tea Bag movement, here. It is a different country with a different culture and history and Libertarianism will never fly, Orville.

As strange as it might sound to you, Federally I've voted NDP and Green candidates... when I didn't cast a blank ballot that is. Provincially, Progressive Conservative, Libertarian, NDP, and Green. I voted Progressive Conservative last election cause the local Libertarian candidate wasn't very competent.

It's not always predictable how a party would split the vote. In my case ironically, Federally at least, the Libertarian Party could steal my vote from any of the major parties including Green. There are things in it even social democrats can appreciate.