Your thoughts on Israeli settlements?

[Machjo]

Lately there has been talk of a moratorium on Israeli settlements, and some concern that some settlements might be dismantled, possibly forcefully and with resistance.

(Negotiating With the Israeli Settlers | The American Task Force on Palestine)

While I can certainly respect the fact that many of these settlements were in contravention of international law in the sense that they were being developed on territory not legally recognized as Israeli lands, now that the settlers are already there, while I can understand turning the land over to Palestinian rule, why could settlers not be given the choice to either return to Israeli territory or accept Palestinian citizenship?

Now don't get me wrong. Palestine has no obligation under international law to accept any Israeli citizen, and it's certainly within Palestine's right to ask that those settlers be removed before handover. On strictly compassionate grounds though, why could Palestine not offer at least the option to the settlers. Sure my guess is most of the settlers would refuse, still insist on staying, and get ready for a showdown with the Israeli Defense Force as had happened once before (Israel in a Showdown with West Bank Settlers - TIME). But why not offer the option anyway as a goodwill gesture? At least this would eliminate any argument on the part of the settlers of their lives being disrupted. Should they choose to stay, they could be granted Palestinian nationality, and still be free to practice their Jewish Faith, but just accept that from there on in their government will be Muslim instead of Jewish and that their children will probably have to learn Arabic as at least their second language in school. Of course they'd be expected to integrate into Palestinian society over time, but otherwise be free to preserve their religion, language and culture in their settlements.

If Israel and Palestine could establish relatively free trade and fee movement of labour, this would also mean that these Jewish settlers would not feel so isolated from other Jews in the region since they could still visit Israel whenever they wished, trade with Israel, receive visitors and tourists from Israel, etc.

At least then it could be shown that the Palestinian side, though perfectly within its rights according to international law to kick those settlers off the land, is willing to show some compassion towards them beyond the call of duty.This would likely also make it easier for Netanyahu too, who clearly does not want to have to face a showdown with the settlers either.

 

[petros]

Let them build settlements but the funding must come from inside of legal Israel.

 

[The Old Medic]

Those settlements were, and always have been illegal. To allow those settlers to stay would be like putting a dagger right in the heart of any future Palestinian state.

The settlements are encouraged by those in the Israeli government that do not want to ever see a Palestinian state, and that truly believe that Israel is entitled to all of what was once the biblical land of Israel.

The problem is, those people that did not move away when the Jews did, became Muslims and ARE the Palestinian people. They all descend from the same ancestors.

And to fail to make a Palestinian state just ensures that Israel will always be in a state of war with her neighbors. Eventually, the neighbors WILL have nuclear weapons too, and Israel will go out of existence in a blaze of glory, as Nukes destroy every major city in the area. Then, no one will be able to live there for a very long time.

Sadly, too many Israeli's have become just like the Nazi's in the 1930's. They see the Palestinians as being 2nd rate people, that have no rights. They see themselves as superior to anyone and everyone else. That will bring eventual disaster to them.

 

[ansutherland]

The entire state of Israel is illegal as far as I am concerned.

 

[Colpy]

The entire state of Israel is illegal as far as I am concerned.

Uh-huh...

Shame them damn Jews didn't line up peacefully for the gas chambers.

Maybe next time. :roll:

As for the settlements, for any peace to be found with Abbass and the West Bank, most, if not all of the settlements will have to be dismantled. As they were in Gaza... (a lot of good THAT did!)

For a Palestinian State to be created, Israel and Abbass will have to ally, invade Gaza, and kill off most of Hamas.

Otherwise, it is a waste of time.

 

[Chiliagon]

what's the going rate on Mortgage rates for that place? anyone know?

 

[CUBert]

The entire state of Israel is illegal as far as I am concerned.

you are right, israel should not exist

Uh-huh...

Shame them damn Jews didn't line up peacefully for the gas chambers.

Maybe next time. :roll:

As for the settlements, for any peace to be found with Abbass and the West Bank, most, if not all of the settlements will have to be dismantled. As they were in Gaza... (a lot of good THAT did!)

For a Palestinian State to be created, Israel and Abbass will have to ally, invade Gaza, and kill off most of Hamas.

Otherwise, it is a waste of time.

who was occupying the land that is now israel before WWII?

 

[Colpy]

you are right, israel should not exist



who was occupying the land that is now israel before WWII?

ahhhh the British?????

As well as Jews, Christians, and Muslims of all different types.

 

[CUBert]

it was dominated by muslims. now jews get their own land called "israel" and effectively displace muslims from their original land.

 

[Colpy]

it was dominated by muslims. now jews get their own land called "israel" and effectively displace muslims from their original land.

The area has been dominated by many groups since the diaspora..........right now it is dominated by Jews.

Jews who treat minority Arabs in the land of Israel better than most of Israels' neighbours treat their own populations.

You know, they vote, have parliamentary representation, basic freedom of speech, they don't get sentenced to public stoning for private matters of the heart...........

Israel is a long, long shot from perfect, but when you hold it up against Lebanon, Egypt, Syria.....it is much superior.

If you are interested in peace, you must deal with realities.....and the reality is Israel is not going anywhere.....

 

[Machjo]

The entire state of Israel is illegal as far as I am concerned.

That's fine. But you are not the arbiter of international law, and international law doe recognize the existence of the state of Israel, just not according to its current borders.

The area has been dominated by many groups since the diaspora..........right now it is dominated by Jews.

Jews who treat minority Arabs in the land of Israel better than most of Israels' neighbours treat their own populations.

You know, they vote, have parliamentary representation, basic freedom of speech, they don't get sentenced to public stoning for private matters of the heart...........

Israel is a long, long shot from perfect, but when you hold it up against Lebanon, Egypt, Syria.....it is much superior.

If you are interested in peace, you must deal with realities.....and the reality is Israel is not going anywhere.....

That said, it still needs to retreat back to within its legal boundaries. Netanyahu is feeling the pressure, and so has ordered a lowdown of Israeli settlements, suggesting a return to 2008 when ironically enough one conflict was between the IDF and not Palestinians, but Israeli settlers.

While I agree with the comments in this thread that Palestine has no legal obligation to accept these settlers as Palestinian citizens, and on request, Israel is bound to remove them, I still think it would be a kind humanitarian gesture for Palestine to at least offer it, of course with the understanding that as Palestinian citizens, they'd be bound to Palestinian laws.

But again, I'm not saying this should be an obligation on Palestine's part, but merely that it would be a kind offer above and beyond the cal of duty. But again, in the end Palestine calls the shots on its legal territory and Israel must comply.

Uh-huh...

Shame them damn Jews didn't line up peacefully for the gas chambers.

Maybe next time. :roll:

As for the settlements, for any peace to be found with Abbass and the West Bank, most, if not all of the settlements will have to be dismantled. As they were in Gaza... (a lot of good THAT did!)

For a Palestinian State to be created, Israel and Abbass will have to ally, invade Gaza, and kill off most of Hamas.

Otherwise, it is a waste of time.

Hmmm...your rhetoric aside (some Zionists of the time were encouraging governments not to accept German Jewish refugees so as to pressure them to go to Palestine! What Jew needs enemies when he has Zionists as friends?), I do agree that Israel and Abbas need to establish a genuine friendship and not just a 'friendship of convenience'. Israel must still recognize though that it still occupies some territory in contravention of international law, which has certainly fueled support for Hamas to at least a degree. Neither side is totally innocent in this.

As for the settlements though, some settlers have likely lived there for years. And yes, Israel should never have allowed them in the first place, but now that they are there, while it is true that Israel should remove them if Palestine requests it, I still think at least offering them the option of Palestinian nationality would be a kind gesture on Palestine's part, regardless of whether the offer is accepted or not. At least it would give those settlers the option should they wish to remain.

But again, if Palestine wants them off their territory, it is well within its rights, granted.

it was dominated by muslims. now jews get their own land called "israel" and effectively displace muslims from their original land.

Yes. But what's done is done. Many Israelis have been born and raised there.

Let's apply this to Canada, shall we.

We could argue that since we'd taken Native lands n a less than ethical manner, we should ship all Canadians back to where their great, grat grandparents came from. First off, those countries would have no obligation to accept us. Secondly, even if they did, we do not know their cultures very well (unless you're of British or French origin and still at least speak their language, though even then such a sudden population explosion in their countries would cause more than a few problems). And thirdly, with many of us being born and raised in Canada, we identify with this land too.

So, to propose all Israelis should just pack up and leave would be the equivalent in Canada of the above.

Going back to Canada, perhaps a more appropriate move might be for the government to promote local languages and cultures in one way or another, but certainly not just kick all Canadians off the land.

Going back to Israel, I see something similar. Sure the government could give Palestinian land back to Palestine, keep land given to Israel, and then build a friendship between the two countries includin travel agreement, etc.

Bear in mind too though that the situation is somewhat different culturally. Whereas Canada's indiginous peoples's cultures are currently indanger of extinction, and so need much more support, palestinian culture is very similar to that of many of its neighbours.

 

[ironsides]

Israel is only settling lands won from the Arabs. Occupying these lands is necessary to prevent any more incursions/attacks against Israel. They are constantly fighting off the Arabs almost everyday, just something common and not reported all the time.

"Painful to watch but necessary to see what happens when you go into Israel in a tank...
Took about a ¼ second for all 5 to die.

What you are about to see is a fully armored Syrian tank being hit by an Israeli laser-guided, steel-penetrating, phosphorous-filled "hand held" rocket. The rocket is small, very portable and is a tightly
controlled weapon, each one is accounted for when they are checked out and back in. There must be no fewer than 2 soldiers present to verify the use, one must be a senior officer with a minimum of 10 years military service. (Sorry, the name and program is kept secret.)

This tank was headed for one of Israel 's settlements, there were four more tanks one mile to the rear of this tank. (They turned around before getting to this area.)

You can hear the ammunition going off after the initial strike. No tank member survived this event.

This event did not make the news, it is an everyday event for our forces and we do not "embed" news sources with our armed forces like the Americans do. This is for our survival, not for "news" or entertainment!"

Tank hit by anti armour missle - Pensacola Fishing Forum

 

[CUBert]

Israel are occupiers and any violence against them is 100% justified.

 

[Colpy]

Israel are occupiers and any violence against them is 100% justified.

Trolling, trolling.................

Perhaps, if you feel so strongly about the existence of our allies in the ME, you could go join the forces standing against them.

You know, maybe you could get on a Syrian tank crew!

Tank hit by anti armour missle - Pensacola Fishing Forum

I do know this, on your departure from Canada to whatever looney Arab nation you choose to serve, the average IQ will go up in both places.

 

[CUBert]

Trolling? It's true, Israel is a terrorist nation. There brutal occupation of the Palestinian territories has been condemned by nearly everyone who isn't a meathead. Even Obama is telling them to cool it a bit on the building on occupied land.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

The area has been dominated by many groups since the diaspora..........right now it is dominated by Jews.

Jews who treat minority Arabs in the land of Israel better than most of Israels' neighbours treat their own populations.

You know, they vote, have parliamentary representation, basic freedom of speech, they don't get sentenced to public stoning for private matters of the heart...........

Israel is a long, long shot from perfect, but when you hold it up against Lebanon, Egypt, Syria.....it is much superior.

If you are interested in peace, you must deal with realities.....and the reality is Israel is not going anywhere.....

The whole region has been volatile for over a century, the Israelis certainly have as good a claim to their portion of the former British protectorate and before that Ottoman empire province as other groups.

The real challenge is to find a compromise that will satisfy enough Palestinians while not crtically weakening Israel...

 

[CUBert]

Humiliating Israeli video condemned
Clip of an Israeli soldier dancing around a female prisoner called illustrative of "sick mentality of occupier".



A video of a male Israeli soldier bellydancing around a bound and blindfolded female prisoner has been received with disgust among Palestinians and in the Middle East.

The video provoked an angry response from the Palestinians on Tuesday.

The clip, which came to light after it was screened on Israel's private Channel 10 television late on Monday, shows a soldier gyrating to rhythmic drumbeat of an Arabic track as the woman, who is wearing a headscarf, huddles against a wall, her hands bound in front of her and her eyes bound with a white cloth.

The soldier, who is wearing sunglasses and smiling broadly, repeatedly brushes up close to the woman who has a Hebrew speech bubble coming out of her mouth reading "Allahu Akbar" - Arabic for "God is greatest".

Humiliating Israeli video condemned - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

 

[Colpy]

Humiliating Israeli video condemned
Clip of an Israeli soldier dancing around a female prisoner called illustrative of "sick mentality of occupier".



A video of a male Israeli soldier bellydancing around a bound and blindfolded female prisoner has been received with disgust among Palestinians and in the Middle East.

The video provoked an angry response from the Palestinians on Tuesday.

The clip, which came to light after it was screened on Israel's private Channel 10 television late on Monday, shows a soldier gyrating to rhythmic drumbeat of an Arabic track as the woman, who is wearing a headscarf, huddles against a wall, her hands bound in front of her and her eyes bound with a white cloth.

The soldier, who is wearing sunglasses and smiling broadly, repeatedly brushes up close to the woman who has a Hebrew speech bubble coming out of her mouth reading "Allahu Akbar" - Arabic for "God is greatest".

Humiliating Israeli video condemned - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

OMG!

The Horror!!! The Horror!!!

I can barely stand it!!!

(insert rolled eyes here!)

 

[CUBert]

Not only do you support the illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, you also support Israeli soldiers humiliating Palestinian women as well.

 

[Colpy]

Not only do you support the illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, you also support Israeli soldiers humiliating Palestinian women as well.

Don't be silly.

The IDF guy is behaving like an arsehole, but he never touches her, he doesn't threaten her, he doesn't even make anything approaching an obscene gesture towards her...............in fact, he doesn't even speak to her.

He is only being a jerk. Somebody should have told him to smarten the %^$# up.........................

But really.........Big deal!!!!