I don't share your opinion of Mr. Harper. Maybe you see what you want to see because he is a Conservative? There's nothing arrogant about him. The people who know him persoanlly will verify that!
Why The Liberals Were So Badly Beaten
- Thread starter oldrebel
- Start date
I don't think that the things listed at the beginning of this thread had much to do with the Liberals being trounced at all. Most Canadians either don't really give a damn about most of those issues, or they support them.
No, what killed the Liberals was Ignatieff, and the support that his party gave to him. This was the third time that the Liberals forced an election, in a bald faced attempt to seize power ion any way that they could.
The made alliance with two parties that stand for things that the Liberals have always opposed, and made it very clear that people from those parties would be given significant places in the government. In effect, Mike and his cronies said, "We don't care that the Bloc wants to destroy Canada, we will use them in order to advance into the seat of power and given them so REAL standing in our government. And, even though we oppose the NDP's policies, and believe them to be WAY to radical, we will align ourselves with them too, and make their leaders parts of the government."
"We will do ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL, just to keep the Conservatives from power. We do not care WHO we have to make an alliance with, just so long as I become Prime Minister."
In effect, they made a pact with Satan, and they paid the price of that. They proved that the only things that the Liberals actually stood for was gaining power at any cost.
The Bloc was also severely punished, as well they should have been. Many people in Quebec supported the Bloc, and the eventual goal of an independent Quebec, but they learned that their party really didn't stand for that at all. Instead, it was willing to give up its goals, and cooperate with the government, so long as they were thrown a bone or two.
Total and complete duplicity, and a naked quest for power at any cost is what destroyed the Liberals AND the Bloc
No, what killed the Liberals was Ignatieff, and the support that his party gave to him. This was the third time that the Liberals forced an election, in a bald faced attempt to seize power ion any way that they could.
The made alliance with two parties that stand for things that the Liberals have always opposed, and made it very clear that people from those parties would be given significant places in the government. In effect, Mike and his cronies said, "We don't care that the Bloc wants to destroy Canada, we will use them in order to advance into the seat of power and given them so REAL standing in our government. And, even though we oppose the NDP's policies, and believe them to be WAY to radical, we will align ourselves with them too, and make their leaders parts of the government."
"We will do ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL, just to keep the Conservatives from power. We do not care WHO we have to make an alliance with, just so long as I become Prime Minister."
In effect, they made a pact with Satan, and they paid the price of that. They proved that the only things that the Liberals actually stood for was gaining power at any cost.
The Bloc was also severely punished, as well they should have been. Many people in Quebec supported the Bloc, and the eventual goal of an independent Quebec, but they learned that their party really didn't stand for that at all. Instead, it was willing to give up its goals, and cooperate with the government, so long as they were thrown a bone or two.
Total and complete duplicity, and a naked quest for power at any cost is what destroyed the Liberals AND the Bloc
The party moved too far to the left and they had a leader with the personality of a stick.
If this forum is any indication, most Canadians probably don't know what each parties platforms are. They just look and the big picture issues and in that respect, there wasn't a great deal of difference between the Liberals and the Dippers. Layton's "used car salesman" image was more appealing than Iggy's.....um....er...well... Iggy really had no image.
If this forum is any indication, most Canadians probably don't know what each parties platforms are. They just look and the big picture issues and in that respect, there wasn't a great deal of difference between the Liberals and the Dippers. Layton's "used car salesman" image was more appealing than Iggy's.....um....er...well... Iggy really had no image.
I'm so tired of the 'forcing an election' BS.
Harper pushed every button he could, and finally the Oppositions said, 'Enough is enough' over the Contempt of Parliament issue.
The Liberals didn't force an election, it was a failure of the government to maintain confidence of Parliament. It's been coming for two years.
It's been a game of chicken, with the Liberals and the Conservatives both scared to trigger an election, for years, precisely because both felt that they'd be blamed for causing an election. Since this election resulted in a Conservative majority, I would assume that all Conservative supporters would be thanking the Liberals for making the dream come true.
Maybe you want to check into that Health Care thing.... Up and running in Saskatchewan by 1947 by CCF (NDP) then adopted in 1965 by Liberals following a 1957 program implemented by the Conservatives
John Manley on Cross Country Checkup was interesting......he listed factors for the gradual loss of Liberal support over the last 30 years........
He spoke specifically of the NEP, alienating the west, and too much gun control, alienating rural voters.......
interesting
He spoke specifically of the NEP, alienating the west, and too much gun control, alienating rural voters.......
interesting
The Libs have had three weak leaders in a row. No party no matter how monolithic it may well be a spent force.The continued internicine warfare between Chretien & Martin, the long knives after Dion & the coronation of Iggy drove loyal Liberals to friendlier shelters or nt to the ballot box at all. The loss of what it means to be Liberal was a large part of the demise. My own view of "Liberal" is under all circumstance be a "centerist" whether morally, socially or fiscallly., take what's best from the right, take what's best from the left massage it all to a pallitable mixture & SELL it to the electorate. This is what the Liberals have forgotten to SELL THE BRAND.
While I am sure the reasons are numerous in my opinion it can be traced to three main causes
1)Liberal support has bled away to an astonishing degree in Quebec. Had the BQ not been present as an option 6 years ago the NDP would have held far more seats there than the 1 they held prior to 2011. Quebec's dissatisfaction with the red team has been camouflaged to a degree as support for the Bloc. Once Quebecer's decided that a BQ protest vote wasn't getting results it wasn't much of a hard sell for Jack to swing them his way. Liberal support in Quebec is the crucial counter weight to Conservative strength in the west if they ever hope to form a government.
2)Leadership. Polls prior to an election may give a picture of support demographics but they don't accurately predict how hard/easy it will be for other parties to woo those percentage points away. One third of the Grits support proved to be easily swayed by Jack. Ignatiaf's competent but uninspiring campaign was not enough to hold them, nor was it likely to swing any of the far more committed Harper supporters his way.
3) Mathematics! The Liberals could count on a good portion of the 2 party races in Ontario going their way when the NDP was by and large a 3rd place afterthought. Harper's slight support increase in Ontario was a less important contributer to the Con's successes here than was the more even split of the left.
Unless either the NDP or Libs can reduce the current split on to something far more one sided the Conservatives will likely hold power for the forseeable future. Conservative in-roads into Quebec, while always unlikely, will now not even be necessary. The thing with politics is the inumerable dynamic factors make it almost impossible to see 4 days down the road let alone 4 years. I'd like to know what the Vegas odds were on 50+ NDP seats in Quebec 7 weeks.
1)Liberal support has bled away to an astonishing degree in Quebec. Had the BQ not been present as an option 6 years ago the NDP would have held far more seats there than the 1 they held prior to 2011. Quebec's dissatisfaction with the red team has been camouflaged to a degree as support for the Bloc. Once Quebecer's decided that a BQ protest vote wasn't getting results it wasn't much of a hard sell for Jack to swing them his way. Liberal support in Quebec is the crucial counter weight to Conservative strength in the west if they ever hope to form a government.
2)Leadership. Polls prior to an election may give a picture of support demographics but they don't accurately predict how hard/easy it will be for other parties to woo those percentage points away. One third of the Grits support proved to be easily swayed by Jack. Ignatiaf's competent but uninspiring campaign was not enough to hold them, nor was it likely to swing any of the far more committed Harper supporters his way.
3) Mathematics! The Liberals could count on a good portion of the 2 party races in Ontario going their way when the NDP was by and large a 3rd place afterthought. Harper's slight support increase in Ontario was a less important contributer to the Con's successes here than was the more even split of the left.
Unless either the NDP or Libs can reduce the current split on to something far more one sided the Conservatives will likely hold power for the forseeable future. Conservative in-roads into Quebec, while always unlikely, will now not even be necessary. The thing with politics is the inumerable dynamic factors make it almost impossible to see 4 days down the road let alone 4 years. I'd like to know what the Vegas odds were on 50+ NDP seats in Quebec 7 weeks.
the NDP ad showing attendance with Mr. Iggy with the lowest score 38%, Killed that man.
I think Its one of the Defining moments that help shape this campaign, and develop the Orange Crush.
the mass public rewarded Jack and the NDP for is highest attendance score. and in the process split the vote for a conservative majority.
That was the hardness hitting ad iv seen in a long time. It should be in the hall of fame =)
I think Its one of the Defining moments that help shape this campaign, and develop the Orange Crush.
the mass public rewarded Jack and the NDP for is highest attendance score. and in the process split the vote for a conservative majority.
That was the hardness hitting ad iv seen in a long time. It should be in the hall of fame =)
Yep, I think you pretty well covered it...........................oh and one more thing
14. Ignatieff.
stealing taxpayers money under the pretense of "national unity". really pisses people off. passing it around at parties like its freaking popcorn really pisses people off.
besides there is nothing liberal about a firearms act designed to criminalize law abiding people.
besides there is nothing liberal about a firearms act designed to criminalize law abiding people.
I'm all for continuous improvement but lets avoid the urge for sweeping changes just for potential political edge. Lets not forget that thanks to some responsible policy making in the last couple of decades by governments on both sides and prudent but quite moderate governance by the Conservatives in the most recent years we are doing pretty damned well compared to most countries out there.
However, like the US and many countries in Europe the difficulties created by our aging population will soon be upon us. I'd like the next big thing to be a sound plan that allows us to at least maintain our current level of service if the face of greater demand without costing me 2/3rds of my salary in taxes. Lets hope that least for the short term, sound management will prevail over flash.
Hi y'all! First time on here but I do have something to say: Canadians are slow but not stupid. That's why the Liberals got rejected. They (Canadians) wanted to keep our economy relatively stable. Now economics is NOT our only concern; societal issues still resonate with old guys like me. This is where the Conservatives would be smart to put on their earphones and to listen.
Listen up Mr. Harper; this may not mean much to aetheists and small 'L' liberals but I am concerned with the fate of Christian minorities in those Muslim lands presently experiencing tremendous turmoil. Wherever the Muslim Brotherhood takes over they will quickly exterminate ALL Muslims who have become Christians in the past few years. Most of these will then be in North Africa, right from Morocco through to Egypt.
Listen up Mr. Harper; we Canadians alive since the late thirties still bear the guilt of Canadian governments (Canadian people) who turned away Jews fleeing the Nazis in Europe. Should this happen again when you refuse refuge to Christians from N. Africa we will remember who failed us and who refused to hear our cry for mercy. Those persons will be rejected at the polls.
Listen up Mr. Harper; this may not mean much to aetheists and small 'L' liberals but I am concerned with the fate of Christian minorities in those Muslim lands presently experiencing tremendous turmoil. Wherever the Muslim Brotherhood takes over they will quickly exterminate ALL Muslims who have become Christians in the past few years. Most of these will then be in North Africa, right from Morocco through to Egypt.
Listen up Mr. Harper; we Canadians alive since the late thirties still bear the guilt of Canadian governments (Canadian people) who turned away Jews fleeing the Nazis in Europe. Should this happen again when you refuse refuge to Christians from N. Africa we will remember who failed us and who refused to hear our cry for mercy. Those persons will be rejected at the polls.
And the Conservatives aren't involved in much of the above? Sorry, but replace Liberal with Conservative up there and the above would remain true.
Thus, if the above was indeed true about the Liberals, then explain to me how it didn't seem to affect the Conservatives in the same manner.
The reality of this past election and the Liberal's failures are mainly due to the Liberals & their Leader Iggy, having no structured plan or idea laid out, let alone explained effectively to the public to sway their opinions of them. All they did was attack the other parties, while not clearly detailing what they would offer.
And this self-destruction began shortly after Paul Martin took over and Dion took his place..... The Liberals started to lose steam when Paul came into the spotlight..... then when Dion took over, the gates of Oblivion opened up and began to swallow the Liberals...... thus at the time of the last election, the Liberals had their poorest results in their history as a party of Canada and Dion had to be canned.
Rather then trying to fix their problems and faults, they just drop Iggy into the mix to try and save their political asses...... but there still was no direction, there still was no turn around..... and Iggy dragged the party further into Oblivion.
It's not just Iggy, or Paul or Dion's fault..... yes they do take a large chunk of responsibility for their party's failures..... but the party as a whole and those within it are just as responsible for not trying to help get things back on track.
So...... what's the Liberal's last ditch chance to fixing themselves?
I see one of two things:
#1 - They take this time to reflect on how they will revamp their party and their objectives/goals, then come back with a new approach, a new plan, a new leader and a new feel that might work in their favor.
or #2 - They will pull a John McCain and bring out an attention-getter in order to sway more votes (The Sarah Palin Card)..... ie: they'll try and get Justin Trudeau to lead the party to try & sway the younger voters into thinking they're hip and "With It"
I'm thinking they'll try #2 first, simply because it's easier then to try and fix up your screwups.
I must agree with your statement. Given the media-intensive nature of modern politics the image of the leader is critical. The swing away from the Liberals was due more to Ignatieff's weak image than anything to do with his policies, and the swing toward the NDP had a great deal to do with the positive image Jack Layton projected during the election. I very much suspect that if all Canadian voters were subjected to a political quiz about the policies of the various political parties very few of them would be able to answer most of the questions accurately. As a result most focus on the leaders. If they like what they see that is where they place their votes.