why steven harper will make a good prime minister

[Reverend Blair]

RE: why steven harper wil

It gives them a platform, Das. I have seen/heard several times that the ROC considers this to be a Quebec scandal...that federalist forces have made all Quebecois look like a bunch of crooks.

I live and interact with a lot of people in the ROC, and I find that to be untrue. The platform is there though, and the separatists are using it.

Like I said though, 2009 is a long way off.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I sometimes wish I was Quebecois so that I could join the separtist movement...

So much rebellion, and no likely outlet here on the prairies...

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

It gives them a platform, Das. I have seen/heard several times that the ROC considers this to be a Quebec scandal...that federalist forces have made all Quebecois look like a bunch of crooks.

I live and interact with a lot of people in the ROC, and I find that to be untrue. The platform is there though, and the separatists are using it.

Like I said though, 2009 is a long way off.

Quebecois are not stupid, they know that English Canada isn't soley associating this as a Quebec problem. The BQ can spin it all they want, Quebecers are probably the most knowledgable about the scandal. Gomrey is one of the top rated programs on TV.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: why steven harper wil

Quebecois aren't stupid, but politicians know that any electorate can be convinced to do stupid things. That's why they all spin so hard.

The BQ/PQ have a solid base. Within that base there are a lot of separatists and a lot more who are willing to at least consider separatism. A little convincing can bring in still others. It is a real issue.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

Quebecois aren't stupid, but politicians know that any electorate can be convinced to do stupid things. That's why they all spin so hard.

The BQ/PQ have a solid base. Within that base there are a lot of separatists and a lot more who are willing to at least consider separatism. A little convincing can bring in still others. It is a real issue.

If you were a Quebecer, wouldn't you want to separate too? The BQ or PQ aren't doing anything to gain support for independence, it is the federal government that is driving the support away from federalism.

What has changed since 1995? Nothing. Now I'm not saying that the Canadian goverment should cater exclusively to Quebec, but when your second most populous province (and largest in size) comes withing a few thousand votes of exiting the federation, one must take action (and I don't mean flying more flags and pasting the word Canada everywhere). They must realize that the current system is broken. We need to go back to the drawing board. The 1867 version with some 1982 tinkering isn't working.

This desire for greater automy is not isolated to Quebec. Our provinces are not designed to be like American states.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: why steven harper wil

That's a pretty big if, DasFX. I'm going to say no, but I would be prone to supporting the BQ/PQ platforms, since they are socially progressive. If push came to shove and I had to decide whether to stay in an increasingly Americanized Canada that was being dominated by neo-conservative principles or take a chance. I might be tempted to take a chance.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

I honestly doubt a Harper goverment will be able to fight a referendum. And who will do it for him? Jean Charest? :lol:

I seriously doubt Harper will be in power come 2009 when the next possible referendum can take place. Besides, who says a referendum is on its way? Quebec doesn't want another referendum.

2009? Charest will be out of office in 2006-2007. The PQ will be elected, that im quite sure of. And a referendum will be called immediatly after.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

2009? Charest will be out of office in 2006-2007. The PQ will be elected, that im quite sure of. And a referendum will be called immediatly after.

So will the Liberal government be voted out because of independence or because of bad government policies? Wasn't the PQ not running the province properly before Charest?

What will the referendum question be? Why isn't it a straight forward oui or non question?

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

2009? Charest will be out of office in 2006-2007. The PQ will be elected, that im quite sure of. And a referendum will be called immediatly after.

So will the Liberal government be voted out because of independence or because of bad government policies? Wasn't the PQ not running the province properly before Charest?

What will the referendum question be? Why isn't it a straight forward oui or non question?

the provincial liberals will be out because of it's poor overall performance... The PQ wasnt perfect, but at least they never got close to the 78% of insatisfaction rate that Charest have right now...

The question of a referendum is always decided just before they start it, so nobody know for now what the question will be.

 

[no1important]

RE: why steven harper wil

Well it should be a simple straight to the point question.

"Do you wish for Quebec to seperate from Canada?"

And check off yes or no. Plain and simple.

.

 

[no1important]

RE: why steven harper wil

A good and smart leader would of been able to capitalize on Gomery a lot better than Harper has.

Kinda funny all the money to spent to keep Quebec in Canada is turning around to be the cause of seperation, if it happens.

Jean Charest has what 3 years left top? He will more than likely stay in close to the full five.

But 2-3 years down the road is a long way off and many things can change.

The BQ/PQ vote over the last 20 years hasn't always been steady either. How many people who actually vote for PQ/BQ want to leave? 50%+1 in my opinion is not enough to declare Quebec Indepandence, either.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

50%+1 in my opinion is not enough to declare Quebec Indepandence, either.

50% + 1 has always been the rule in previous elections, referendums and what not. You cannot go and change the rules all of a sudden. Remember, the No side won last time with basically 50% + 1 support.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: why steven harper wil

A good and smart leader would of been able to capitalize on Gomery a lot better than Harper has.

Kinda funny all the money to spent to keep Quebec in Canada is turning around to be the cause of seperation, if it happens.

Jean Charest has what 3 years left top? He will more than likely stay in close to the full five.

But 2-3 years down the road is a long way off and many things can change.

The BQ/PQ vote over the last 20 years hasn't always been steady either. How many people who actually vote for PQ/BQ want to leave? 50%+1 in my opinion is not enough to declare Quebec Indepandence, either.

Newfoundland joined with 51%. Why can't we leave with 51%?
And the PQ always had very high support. You arnt voting yes for seperation when voting for a party.

 

[I think not]

This is probably going to be a silly comment, and I'm well aware of the political boundaries, but you all speak to each other as if you aren't all Canadian. Aren't you all Canadian first and then Albertan, Ontarian ( i dont know if i killed that one) etc...?

It seems what would work better is an economic union amongst certain provinces (like the EU of North America) if all the fuss is about money. (Except maybe for Quebec)

 

[Cathou]

This is probably going to be a silly comment, and I'm well aware of the political boundaries, but you all speak to each other as if you aren't all Canadian. Aren't you all Canadian first and then Albertan, Ontarian ( i dont know if i killed that one) etc...?

It seems what would work better is an economic union amongst certain provinces (like the EU of North America) if all the fuss is about money. (Except maybe for Quebec)

depend, i've seen a poll recently about that, i dont remember exactly what was the number, but most canadian considere themself canadian, than ontarian, albertan etc... of course, it's the other way around in quebec, most of us see themself as quebekers, than canadian.

i say of course because the nation sentiment, what make feel canadian, or whatever nation is in my opinion a cultural thing first, not the land you live on... and quebec dont have the same culture... (and before arguing with me on that try to respond to those question in less than 5 minutes : name 10 canadian movies, singer/band, writter, tv show, and product. i can assure you than half maybe more % of the population in quebec can respond to that in less than 5 minutes if you change canadian by quebec...)

 

[I think not]

I don't disagree Cathou, that Quebec is different ( I have in fact been in a great many areas). But is there any reason why you couldnt coexist as a nation? I admit I am not too familiar with the issues as to why the citizens of Quebec wish to go it alone.

 

[Cathou]

I don't disagree Cathou, that Quebec is different ( I have in fact been in a great many areas). But is there any reason why you couldnt coexist as a nation? I admit I am not too familiar with the issues as to why the citizens of Quebec wish to go it alone.

it's not impossible. even i, who grew up in the Parizeau circonscription can admit that. But we feel that right now the way canada work, economically and socially, is not adapted to us and that we may have a brighter future is we control ourself social and economical politics.

of course, it's also an emotional thing. look at canada history. For canadians, canada's history may have started when loyalist for the US have created upper-canada, but for us, canada history have started when we we're invaded by England, and Quebec's history have began long before that. trough history you can see all the friction between the two nation, and usually, english canadians that oppress french canadians. sure it's not the case anymore, but just try to get service in french in westmount, and you will see that there's a certain tension that remain even today.

 

[I think not]

I have read that there is a big issue on language, don't you feel the Constitution Act of 1982 protects your language enough?

 

[Cathou]

I have read that there is a big issue on language, don't you feel the Constitution Act of 1982 protects your language enough?

well not really, that's why we have the bill 101, but we must use the nonwithstanding clause every 4 years i think to keep active... and with english people that keep try to get it remove, that keep claiming that they are a poor little minority alway in danger to be assimilitated... yeah sure :roll: find another minority that get maybe the quarter of the money of the whole province, 2 university, 2 hospitals, and independant education system... that sure look like something terrible to me :roll:

but honnestly i dont really think that our language is in danger... but when you have to make two separate poll for everything because the result will change radically between canada and quebec, i think there's a gap there...

beside on language, i think it must be frustrating for others canadian too that they must learn french when they know that they will probably never use it, only to have any important job in the federal governement...

 

[I think not]

I understand, forgive my French if I make a mistake (I only took two years of it and that was a very long time ago)

Je vous espère toute découverte que vous cherchez

I hope i said that correctly