God isn't taking revenge on descendants. You just lit the fuse for me to offer one of my tortured analogies. What do fish do? Swim. What do humans do? SinOriginal sin? lol Only a psychopath or someone like a Hatfield or McCoy (inbred suthannah) would take out revenge upon the descendants of someone who'd done a wrong.
If someone ate one of my apples, I'd offer them another.
Do you really think that the nature of god/universe/holy spirit/creator/source changes with the name you call it?
gerry: I am stunned by your comments regarding Paul. From Romans, by Paul: "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Maybe consider rereading Romans & the other epistles from Paul. He was all about faith all the time.
Lit your fuse? Wet gunpowder. What sins do newborns have against them? Adultery? Coveting their neighbors wives? Theft? Worshipping "false" gods? Why are some of those newborns inflicted with very short lives and incredible amounts of suffering? For their sins?
Ahhh.....What's in a name. I do not hold the belief that all religions lead to the same God, Cliffy. I believe God wants us to know Him. We have to be open to knowing his will not ours, his likes/dislikes, his expectations, his mercy, his goodness. He is Diety - he has a mind of his own. I do not want to fashion for myself a God that resembles my feeble mind. This could prompt me to start another thread.
What newborns do you know who grew up sinless? No need to go all crazy. Don't paint Christians as nuts that imagine newborns as gunslingers and bankrobbers. Can we think a little more maturely? It is easy to cast off the Christian when we ascribe to them doctrines and teachings that are ridiculous. Tell me. why is all of humanity such a spectacle? Is there something in the nature of mankind that is awry? Instead of lying, cheating, swearing, murdering, and coveting - why are we all not always and continually at peace? Hmmm....something in our nature. Something in the fish's nature makes it swim.
Glibert! Now how can you conclude such a thing after reading my post? I said I want to know the mind of God. It is a danger for humans to sit and imagine who or what God may be without his Word. Yeah, I know I always get back to the big bad bible, don't I. Is not God capable of keeping his Word guarded and defended throughout the years. I thought a God by nature is rather omnipotent.
Gerry, I am hard pressed to comment on your comment. Jesus - yes he is the new covenant. We no longer have to practice levitical law - no sacrificing of bulls etc. What I do not understand is how you conclude that Paul is promoting levitical law. I read all of the new testament often. In no way does Paul advocate following the law of which you speak. As for the ten commandments, we are all guilty. I hope you are not relying on the keeping of the 10 commandments to be saved. Before other's comment, I am not suggesting we all can go wild and break the 10 commandments as we please. Rather, we are unable to keep them perfectly. If we keep the first - thou shalt have no other gods before me - then we wouldn't have to worry about the other 9. But, as it is, we still struggle with the first.
Let's see, you think you can know the mind of a being that created an in finite Universe out of nothing. We live on a rock that in the grand scheme of things is not much more than a speck of dust or more precisely a proton in a atom of a speck of dust in this Universe and you think you can know this mind. Wow! Your intellect must be as vast as a galaxy. The best you can hope for is a perspective according to your understanding, which is microscopic in comparison.
Gerry, If you are ok with this, please tell me what you find offensive in the following first few verses of Romans written by Paul. I thought I would start at the beginning to understand your aversion to Paul.
Yes and no. The old people who first became aware of the power and command of christ explained that without the evil and sin souls could not progress. They were right. Without the bad good could not grow, ebb and flow, fluctuate, mankind follows an ebb and flow designed to enlighten our souls, the important part of us. This is hell, where stars are made, it's a hard life enclosed in matter. There is no rest here, you have to work for every minute if you want to grade. You can rest when you're dead they say. You have to take the good with the bad , those are the rules. It is in the nature of matter to go awry. That's condensed mind you.
Cliffy - that is the very question I have asked God. OF course, we can know him. Certainly not everything at once. I take him at his word. For me, for Christians, Scripture is the foundation. Christ is the narrow door and the Holy Spirit is the Teacher and Counselor. Now, I will certainly say that God has written his laws on people's hearts. That is not to say law as in "demands". Recall my Helen Keller story. God is calling us, pursuing us. I think I may have to make an attempt at another thread regarding the idolatry of the old testament and how those people who "worshipped" the golden calves imagine they were rightly worshipping God. This is were the mind is our enemy. I need to be in a different time zone to start that thread. MAybe tomorrow.
Do you write for readers digest?Yes and no. The old people who first became aware of the power and command of christ explained that without the evil and sin souls could not progress. They were right. Without the bad good could not grow, ebb and flow, fluctuate, mankind follows an ebb and flow designed to enlighten our souls, the important part of us. This is hell, where stars are made, it's a hard life enclosed in matter. There is no rest here, you have to work for every minute if you want to grade. You can rest when you're dead they say. You have to take the good with the bad , those are the rules. It is in the nature of matter to go awry. That's condensed mind you.
Ah, the Bible. Words of other humans claiming to be channeling a god. lol
Cliffy - how is it that you determine that Paul was not set apart. God uses people. He sets people apart for different purposes. Aside from that, what is the problem you and others have with Paul???
