Who should be allowed access to your medical records?

[Vanni Fucci]

Anyone who would potentially be in a position to help me should I suddenly collapse or suffer a life threatening injury. What could happen should my medical records (a little high blood pressure) fall into the "wrong" hands?

I'm not saying you shouldn't disclose that information, I'm saying that you shouldn't be put in a position where you are forced to in order to obtain insurance or a job...

Many of the HR sites I've looked at have suggested that no medical questions should be asked during the interview and not until the initial letter of offer has been given. Then a full disclosure of medical needs can be provided if any special workplace accomodations need to be made.

 

[taxslave]

I'm not saying you shouldn't disclose that information, I'm saying that you shouldn't be put in a position where you are forced to in order to obtain insurance or a job...
Many of the HR sites I've looked at have suggested that no medical questions should be asked during the interview and not until the initial letter of offer has been given. Then a full disclosure of medical needs can be provided if any special workplace accomodations need to be made.

That makes sense. Many firms qualify their employment offer with passing a medical and/or drug test.
It is the drug tests that I have a problem with since they won't pick up a drunk by the next day but a joint can show up for weeks.

 

[JLM]

That makes sense. Many firms qualify their employment offer with passing a medical and/or drug test.
It is the drug tests that I have a problem with since they won't pick up a drunk by the next day but a joint can show up for weeks.

Not sure that is a bad thing. Years ago I had a bunch of pot heads working with me. Pretty well all suffered from Dropsy and Heart Fever......................................dropped down on their ass and didn't have the heart to get up. :lol:

 

[taxslave]

Not sure that is a bad thing. Years ago I had a bunch of pot heads working with me. Pretty well all suffered from Dropsy and Heart Fever......................................dropped down on their ass and didn't have the heart to get up. :lol:

The one place where I can say that smoking a joint at work helps is hard surfacing things like blades and buckets. Absolutely mind numbing work. Caffeine is NOT your friend on this job.
Weeding the strawberry patch is ok too. Except it has to be done AFTER picking the berries.

 

[petros]

That makes sense. Many firms qualify their employment offer with passing a medical and/or drug test.
It is the drug tests that I have a problem with since they won't pick up a drunk by the next day but a joint can show up for weeks.

If you have the MMAD card your are exempted from even being tested for THC and disclosuer to an employer of the excemption violates patient/med service provider confidentiality.

 

[Niflmir]

define "free time".... is your unpaid lunch hour "free time"? What about coffee breaks?

Free time is free time. If someone comes back inebriate, then they stoned/drunk at work. If they take a puff of Salvia divinorum over a 15 minute break, by the time they come back to work they will be completely sober.

As I said, it doesn't matter what happens during the free time. It matters what is happening while you are on the clock. It is none of the employer's business what an employee does in their free time.

 

[petros]

I'd love to see someone attempt working while on salvia.

 

[Niflmir]

I'd love to see someone attempt working while on salvia.

Yeah, not going to happen, unless their job is to try new water bongs.

So am I. But I can understand the need to have access to a persons private records, where their position may put them in a position, that that may affect.

But do you really think they need access to a person's medical records to evaluate medical risks?

If a person is at risk of a heart attack, that should be noticeable from a medical exam. If the person is at risk of a psychological breakdown, that should be noticeable from a psychological exam. Without an exam, the medical records are useless, as they might be at risk even though they haven't had an episode yet. And then, if you have to examine them anyways, what purpose are the records serving?

 

[JLM]

Free time is free time. If someone comes back inebriate, then they stoned/drunk at work. If they take a puff of Salvia divinorum over a 15 minute break, by the time they come back to work they will be completely sober.

As I said, it doesn't matter what happens during the free time. It matters what is happening while you are on the clock. It is none of the employer's business what an employee does in their free time.

So it's perfectly fine with you if the guy doing your open heart surgery had a few shooters with his lunch 1/2 an hour previously? :lol:

 

[Niflmir]

So it's perfectly fine with you if the guy doing your open heart surgery had a few shooters with his lunch 1/2 an hour previously? :lol:

What part of my message was unclear? The part where I implied that being drunk on the job was not ok needs clarification? Let me be explicit: it is not ok to be drunk or high on the job.

Peeing in a cup in no way tells you if someone is drunk or high on the job. It is an invasion of privacy with no merit.

 

[TenPenny]

I'm not saying you shouldn't disclose that information, I'm saying that you shouldn't be put in a position where you are forced to in order to obtain insurance or a job...
Many of the HR sites I've looked at have suggested that no medical questions should be asked during the interview and not until the initial letter of offer has been given. Then a full disclosure of medical needs can be provided if any special workplace accomodations need to be made.

So you are saying that you should not have to divulge your medical info to qualify for health or life insurance?

 

[Niflmir]

So you are saying that you should not have to divulge your medical info to qualify for health or life insurance?

Especially then. Otherwise you end up in the paradoxical situation where people that need coverage the most are least likely to be able to get it. This is why universal medical coverage is seen as such an important human right.

At least for the basic coverage here in the Netherlands, insurance providers are unable to refuse you coverage. So what point would the medical history serve?

 

[JLM]

It could be beneficial to the insurer and the insured if the insured willingly submitted health records. I'd glad surrender mine if there was a potential for lower premiums. :smile:

 

[bobnoorduyn]

As I said, it doesn't matter what happens during the free time. It matters what is happening while you are on the clock. It is none of the employer's business what an employee does in their free time.

That all depends, some companies have codes of conduct while off the clock. I've know folks to get reprimanded for getting into dust ups on their own time. I also know a fellow who was suspended for getting a DUI and tossed in the clink on his own time, there's probably more to that story. But if a person's actions reflect poorly on the company I can see where it would be a concern. It's kind of like, "am I going to do business with a company that would hire a bozo like that?"

It doesn't even have to involve goofy behaviour, many airlines restrict pilots from flying, even recreationally, outside company time, some flatly disallow it. They also take a dim view of scuba diving and blood donations, it is generally allowed but there are restrictions for when you can return to work.

 

[JLM]

That all depends, some companies have codes of conduct while off the clock. I've know folks to get reprimanded for getting into dust ups on their own time. I also know a fellow who was suspended for getting a DUI and tossed in the clink on his own time, there's probably more to that story. But if a person's actions reflect poorly on the company I can see where it would be a concern. It's kind of like, "am I going to do business with a company that would hire a bozo like that?"

It doesn't even have to involve goofy behaviour, many airlines restrict pilots from flying, even recreationally, outside company time, some flatly disallow it. They also take a dim view of scuba diving and blood donations, it is generally allowed but there are restrictions for when you can return to work.

I'm in general agreement- there's an old saying............"he who pays the piper calls the tune". :lol:

 

[Niflmir]

That all depends, some companies have codes of conduct while off the clock. I've know folks to get reprimanded for getting into dust ups on their own time. I also know a fellow who was suspended for getting a DUI and tossed in the clink on his own time, there's probably more to that story. But if a person's actions reflect poorly on the company I can see where it would be a concern. It's kind of like, "am I going to do business with a company that would hire a bozo like that?"
It doesn't even have to involve goofy behaviour, many airlines restrict pilots from flying, even recreationally, outside company time, some flatly disallow it. They also take a dim view of scuba diving and blood donations, it is generally allowed but there are restrictions for when you can return to work.

I agree. In certain jobs, some codes of conduct make a lot of sense. In other jobs, one cannot imagine why a code of conduct would ever be necessary.

However, if it happens in the privacy of my own home, no code of conduct should apply.

It could be beneficial to the insurer and the insured if the insured willingly submitted health records. I'd glad surrender mine if there was a potential for lower premiums. :smile:

True enough. But I see even that as a slippery slope.

However, I believe in universal health care that renders health insurance useless. (Which largely doesn't exist, but some countries go much further than others.)

 

[CDNBear]

Reasoning? Oakes is a blunt tool, badly worded and far too ambigous for the gravity of it's intended purpose...how's that for reasoning?

Poor.

It's perfectly fine that you aren't...

I would imagine your ignorance is blissful.

I have no cause to...I'm merely arguing an academic point here...haven't you been following?

Ya, I followed your goalpost shuffling.

All while monitoring network operations in 3 provinces...some people are better than others at multi-tasking...

Or BS'ing.

Actually, to be clear I proved myself wrong, and admitted it, but then by that metric, I've also proven you wrong, because you listed truckers, firefighters and police as examples of jobs that would require medical history for consideration of candidacy, but provided no evidence to back that claim up..

Actually, to be clear, I told you what the facts were. I really don't care what you think. It's funny as hell watching you try and move the conversation away from...

Emphatic NO...it does not depend at all on the career...

NO employer has any right whatsoever of even asking for you medical records, much less forcing you to provide them...

The notion is ridiculous...

I would expect nothing less than that from a troll...

Trolls usually have links to law libraries in their bookmarks?

It's spelled shining...spell checker is your friend :icon_smile:

Ummm...

I never disputed that records can be subpoenaed as part of a litigation. I also never disputed that once a waiver to the right of non-disclosure has been signed that it is binding, for ever!

LOL.

What I disputed was the constitutionality of being forced to waive those rights in order to obtain a service, in this case insurance...

Tell that to the insurance companies.

I'll bet Vic Toews gives you a hard on too...

No, but lol.

But do you really think they need access to a person's medical records to evaluate medical risks?

In some circumstances, yes.

If a person is at risk of a heart attack, that should be noticeable from a medical exam. If the person is at risk of a psychological breakdown, that should be noticeable from a psychological exam. Without an exam, the medical records are useless, as they might be at risk even though they haven't had an episode yet. And then, if you have to examine them anyways, what purpose are the records serving?

As Gh's link pointed out, it doesn't always show up in a routine exam. Patterns in ones mental or physical health, although seemingly benign, can indicate underlying issues. That may become problematic in ones career.

 

[Niflmir]

As Gh's link pointed out, it doesn't always show up in a routine exam. Patterns in ones mental or physical health, although seemingly benign, can indicate underlying issues. That may become problematic in ones career.

Yeah, my fetish for testing as opposed to tick boxes leads me to support even zanier positions. Like having an exam to see if you should be allowed to drive/drink or not, which you can take at any age whatsoever.

In reality, I realize that this is a difficult goal to achieve. But a guy has to dream.

 

[CDNBear]

Yeah, my fetish for testing as opposed to tick boxes leads me to support even zanier positions. Like having an exam to see if you should be allowed to drive/drink or not, which you can take at any age whatsoever.

That sounds interesting.

I take it, by exam, you mean mental/physical(On top of the regular driving exam)?

 

[bobnoorduyn]

However, if it happens in the privacy of my own home, no code of conduct should apply.

Nope, I certainly don't disagree with you there. As a matter of fact, I don't really agree with how far reaching some of those codes of conduct are either.