Who decides on the meaning of a symbol?

Machjo

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Seeing that certain symbols can have multiple meanings depending on the user (a good example is the Swastika, used in various cultures across the world), and the cross (which can represent the Christian Faith as well as certain secular countries, and possibly other meanings too when shaped as a sword), who determines what a particular symbol means?

It would seem to me that the only fair answer would be its user. A good examples is literature. Who determines the true meaning of the text? Of course it's the author. The rest of us can only speculate.
 

lone wolf

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What ... and deprive certain people (some of whom exist solely for the purposes of reading between the lines to come up with alternate perceptions, looking for dragons among under-the-bed lint, creating mountains from molehills, etc.) of the on thing that gives meaning to an otherwise boring life?
 

Machjo

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What ... and deprive certain people (some of whom exist solely for the purposes of reading between the lines to come up with alternate perceptions, looking for dragons among under-the-bed lint, creating mountains from molehills, etc.) of the on thing that gives meaning to an otherwise boring life?
:lol:

Now could you imagine a Far-Eastern Buddhist with a big fat Swastika tattooed onto his chest and his head shaved walking through the Bronx shirtless one hot summer day? I suppose the locals would certainly be curious as to his appearing a little less white than your typical Nazi. But what about a white Far-Eastern Buddhist adopted from a Russian orphanage by Japanese parents? Oh he'd be in trouble!:lol:
 

Machjo

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You learn something new every day. As it turns out, traditionally n North America it's used for various purposes too, including healing rituals:

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately for the Navajo, the Nazis had usurped the symbol, and considering racial prejudices in Canada at the time along with ignorance of the local culture, certainly it wa wise for their own safety to discontinue its use.

Seeing that Nazi Germany is now history, I think it's time to scrap political correctness and through it out the window and again allow the various cultures, including the Navajo, to use the Swastika without prejudice if they want to. And as for the cross, use it all you want according to whatever it means to you.
 

Machjo

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I'm all for the reserection of the swastika, however there are less tolerant factions who would continue to punish symbols of carbon life forms.

I'm neither for nor against the resurrection of the Swastika. If let's say most Europeans, Navajo, etc. decide to let bygones be bygones, then fine, let the Swastika die. However, I'm all for removing prejudice against those who use the Swastika. If I see a white man with short hair sporting a Swastika, I have a duty to accept that I do not know the significance of that Swastika to him until he should inform me of it. For all I know he could be a Hindu, a Buddhist, or even trying to revive it as a good luck charm of the early 20th Century West:

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not up to me to impose my meaning of the Swastika on another. In fact quite frankly since I don't fall into any of the categories of people to give it any meaning, it actually has no meaning for me whatsoever.

This by the way could also prove damaging to Nazism. Imagine a Nazi walking down the street with a Swastika one day and me asking him what it means. That would likely offend him more than if I'd just gotten angry at him about it. If I get angry at him about it, he wins because it means that I've acknowledged it as a Nazi symbol. If however I just go up to him and kindly ask what it means, he'd suddenly realize it means nothing to me. Essentially, I'd be refusing to impose a Nazi meaning onto the symbol,thus weakening it as a Nazi symbol.
 

AnnaG

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Seeing that certain symbols can have multiple meanings depending on the user (a good example is the Swastika, used in various cultures across the world), and the cross (which can represent the Christian Faith as well as certain secular countries, and possibly other meanings too when shaped as a sword), who determines what a particular symbol means?

It would seem to me that the only fair answer would be its user. A good examples is literature. Who determines the true meaning of the text? Of course it's the author. The rest of us can only speculate.
:D That would depend upon who you ask, too. For instance, you might ask eannasir and get "Allah" as an answer. Ask an aardvark and get "ants" as an answer. lol
 
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Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Seeing that certain symbols can have multiple meanings depending on the user (a good example is the Swastika, used in various cultures across the world), and the cross (which can represent the Christian Faith as well as certain secular countries, and possibly other meanings too when shaped as a sword), who determines what a particular symbol means?

It would seem to me that the only fair answer would be its user. A good examples is literature. Who determines the true meaning of the text? Of course it's the author. The rest of us can only speculate.

It depends on the situation but generally speaking, 50% of the arts meaning is based on the artist and 50% of its meaning is based on the viewer. To make sure the symbol/logo get close to a 100% connection to it's desired meaning, the artist must know how to connect to the targeted audience and predict how the audience will view that logo/symbol.

The artist generally designs something to send a certain message to the viewer, however if the majority of viewers don't get that message and instead, see something different.... then in a way, the artist has failed in sending the message he or she intended and that symbol or art then takes on a different meaning.

But as I said, it depends on the situation, as for example, a musician makes a song (which can end up being a symbol of a movement, era, identity, etc.) and wrote words a certain way to mean something in particular.... yet not everybody will get the same meaning from that song or its words..... and yet to add to that, some artists will write a song meaning one thing, but then not actually explain the real message, thus leaving it up to the listener to determine for themselves what the message is, which can be endless in different meanings.

In regards to a logo/symbol for a company or organization, it is usually the company/organization that determines which symbol/logo to go by that will identify themselves at a quick glance. Some are designed better then others..... but overall, whatever symbol they choose to represent them, they must ensure they know what attracts their targeted audience.... thus be aware of cultural interests and dislikes.

As an example, let's say I own a auto repair shop and I choose my corporate identity/logo to be a fluffy teddy bear holding an ice cream... does that logo catch your eye?

Perhaps.... you might even easily remember it..... but does that logo actually tell you what my company does and does it even relate to auto repair?

Not at all.

The design one uses to identify themselves in a graphical sense is generally designed and created by the company/person using it and in the end, they determine what the final product will be, how it will be used and where to use it.... but it's true meaning, unless explained by the owner/user of that logo/symbol, is left up to the viewer to determine for themselves if it sends the right message its supposed to, or if the logo/symbol actually works.

However if a logo/symbol doesn't send the right message from the start, if a company or organization continues to use that logo/symbol for a period of time, eventually they can condition the viewer into knowing that logo/symbol means that company/organization and what they do.

Take the MacDonald's logo... a big yellow M on a red box.

Does it actually tell you what that company does or the services it provides?

Not at all.... but everybody has seen it for so long.... pretty much all through our lives we've seen this logo in one form or another and we have been conditioned to know that logo means MacDonald's, and their service is fast food.

There's even more one can explain to your question, but to say the least, the question you asked does not have an easy answer..... but rather, multiple answers depending on the type of symbol/logo you're asking about.
 
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Mowich

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Ah yes, the infamous Mickey D's logo.

Me, when I think of the logo, this kind of thought comes to mind. :lol:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
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Atomic theory is an ancient science. The earliest record of it can be found in Vedic texts from india which are many thousands of years old.
Legend has it that the Vedic civilisation was highly advanced. The sages that oversaw its development, through their mystic insight and deep meditation, discovered the ancient symbols of spirituality: Aumkara and Swastika. They also discovered many scientific principles that they applied to develop a highly advanced technology. They gave the atom its sanskrit name "Anu".

Spiritual Secrets in the Carbon Atom

 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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It depends on the situation but generally speaking, 50% of the arts meaning is based on the artist and 50% of its meaning is based on the viewer. To make sure the symbol/logo get close to a 100% connection to it's desired meaning, the artist must know how to connect to the targeted audience and predict how the audience will view that logo/symbol.

The artist generally designs something to send a certain message to the viewer, however if the majority of viewers don't get that message and instead, see something different.... then in a way, the artist has failed in sending the message he or she intended and that symbol or art then takes on a different meaning.

But as I said, it depends on the situation, as for example, a musician makes a song (which can end up being a symbol of a movement, era, identity, etc.) and wrote words a certain way to mean something in particular.... yet not everybody will get the same meaning from that song or its words..... and yet to add to that, some artists will write a song meaning one thing, but then not actually explain the real message, thus leaving it up to the listener to determine for themselves what the message is, which can be endless in different meanings.

In regards to a logo/symbol for a company or organization, it is usually the company/organization that determines which symbol/logo to go by that will identify themselves at a quick glance. Some are designed better then others..... but overall, whatever symbol they choose to represent them, they must ensure they know what attracts their targeted audience.... thus be aware of cultural interests and dislikes.

As an example, let's say I own a auto repair shop and I choose my corporate identity/logo to be a fluffy teddy bear holding an ice cream... does that logo catch your eye?

Perhaps.... you might even easily remember it..... but does that logo actually tell you what my company does and does it even relate to auto repair?

Not at all.

The design one uses to identify themselves in a graphical sense is generally designed and created by the company/person using it and in the end, they determine what the final product will be, how it will be used and where to use it.... but it's true meaning, unless explained by the owner/user of that logo/symbol, is left up to the viewer to determine for themselves if it sends the right message its supposed to, or if the logo/symbol actually works.

However if a logo/symbol doesn't send the right message from the start, if a company or organization continues to use that logo/symbol for a period of time, eventually they can condition the viewer into knowing that logo/symbol means that company/organization and what they do.

Take the MacDonald's logo... a big yellow M on a red box.

Does it actually tell you what that company does or the services it provides?

Not at all.... but everybody has seen it for so long.... pretty much all through our lives we've seen this logo in one form or another and we have been conditioned to know that logo means MacDonald's, and their service is fast food.

There's even more one can explain to your question, but to say the least, the question you asked does not have an easy answer..... but rather, multiple answers depending on the type of symbol/logo you're asking about.

True. But we need to consider the target audience too. For example, if the Swastika has a particular meaning to your group that is different from the common meaning, but your intent is on communicating a particular message to other possible members of your group and not the general population, then you don't care how they interpret it. To take a few examples:

If I'm speaking over a cell phone to a friend in French, and he asks me in French what I'm watching on TV, and I answer that it's a film about arctic seals (phoques), and an English-speaking friend sitting next to me hears the F word in English, well, considering I wasn't addressing him, I don't care what he heard, because my focus was on communicating with the French-speaker over the phone. Likewise if I'm talking about the colour 'nigro' as it is in some languages. In some other languages, it's merely a noun denoting the colour black and has no relationship whatwoever with the word Negro or the n-word, except possibly etymologically.

So looking at it that way, if we think of a symbol as a part of a language, then the target audience does matter. If I'm not the target audience, I have no more right to be offended at the symbol as an English-speaker does upon hearing the French word phoque (which is not intended for him anyway) or the word 'nigro', etc.