Not at all.
But that doesn't mean it is a bitch to develop for. If regulations were really a problem, it would impact production. The reality is that regulation isn't being enforced.
Western provinces decide to promote sustainable development
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Not at all.
But that doesn't mean it is a bitch to develop for. If regulations were really a problem, it would impact production. The reality is that regulation isn't being enforced.
Read the first page of the thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Like?
<b>Quote:
The federal and provincial governments have announced plans to improve monitoring of environmental impacts, but have failed to introduce any regulations that would require a reduction in emissions from current levels, which are now higher than annual pollution from all the cars on Canadian roads and about the same as pollution from all light-duty trucks.
</b>Canada pledges oil and gas pollution rules by 2013 at climate conference
Do you know was really slowing all this down in the west that is finally being addressed which also vastly improves efficiency and ability to meet emission targets? It's immense size and the infrastructure to tie it all together.
Give it time. You might like what you see without having to squawk about things you are unsure of.
I highlighted the important stuff for you Flossy.
Nice work though, but the jury looks like they're not swayed.
BTW - Learn to quote, OK.. A little practice will come in handy and you'll avoid this kind of mess:
Read the first page of the thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosLike?<b>Quote:
The federal and provincial governments have announced plans to improve monitoring of environmental impacts, but have failed to introduce any regulations that would require a reduction in emissions from current levels, which are now higher than annual pollution from all the cars on Canadian roads and about the same as pollution from all light-duty trucks.</b>Canada pledges oil and gas pollution rules by 2013 at climate conference
rofl
Well, anyone that can read will see what's really important from that quote.
I rest my case.
--
Also, apparently we don't have 'dutch disease'. We have 'oilsands fever'.
Was Thomas Mulcair right? New report supports ‘Dutch Disease’ claims
OTTAWA — On the eve of NDP leader Tom Mulcair’s visit to Alberta after being lambasted for his criticisms of the province’s oil sands, a new report backs his claim that Canada’s economy suffers from a form of Dutch Disease.
A study released Wednesday by the Pembina Institute says Canada has come down with a unique strain of the phenomenon, dubbed “oil sands fever,” that is producing near-term economic benefits that are often overstated.
The report says these benefits are spread unevenly across the country and could be hiding economic turmoil down the road.
But another report by a different group says Canada’s oil and gas industry is spreading the wealth by using the money earned from booming exports to buy goods and services from the rest of the country.
The two reports were simultaneously as Mulcair embarked on his first tour of the oil sands.
The Pembina study says the Dutch Disease label may be too simplistic.
“It seems clear that Canada is undergoing changes, both positive and negative, that are unique to both the nature of its domestic economy and Canada’s role in a shifting global economy,” the report says.
“The result appears to be a uniquely Canadian strain of the Dutch Disease that could be called ’oilsands fever’ — a strain that is beginning to create clear winners and losers in Canada’s economy and could pose a significant risk to Canada’s competitiveness in the emerging, clean energy economy.”
The report urges the federal government to create a rainy-day savings fund for oil and gas revenues, get rid of tax breaks for oil and gas companies, convene an expert panel on the oilsands and the economy, study regional competitiveness in an era of a high loonie and work on a national energy strategy.
A separate report also released Wednesday by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute came to a different conclusion.
The Macdonald-Laurier study found all provinces will enjoy benefits from oil- and gas-rich western provinces that far outweigh any ill-effects from a higher Canadian dollar.
“While the so-called ’Dutch Disease’ mechanism may operate, in practice it is partially (perhaps more than fully) offset by the gains to the overall Canadian economy documented by these studies,” the report says.
The two reports came out the day before Mulcair is scheduled to tour Suncor’s oilsands project near Fort McMurray.
Alberta Premier Alison Redford has said she won’t meet the NDP leader until he visits the Fort McMurray region to educate himself about the oilsands and Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall has also weighed in with harsh words.
Before departing on his western tour, Mulcair insisted he’s not against development, he’s only advocating sustainable development. And he stressed that applies not just to the oilsands but to natural resource projects all across the country.
Was Thomas Mulcair right? New report supports ‘Dutch Disease’ claims | News | National Post
Good words do not last long unless they amount to something. Words do not pay for my dead people. They do not pay for my country, now overrun by white men. They do not protect my father's grave. They do not pay for all my horses and cattle. Good words will not give back my children. Good words will not make good the promise of your War Chief. Good words will not give my people good health and stop them from dying. Good words will not get my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves.
I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk.
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of the land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes on the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy - and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his fathers' graves, and his children's birthright is forgotten.
Chief Seattle
What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to man. All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the children of the earth.
Chief Seattle
"We did not ask you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as a home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here, you are taking my land from me, you are killing off our game, so it is hard for us to live.
Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them."
Crazy Horse - Sioux
I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk.
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of the land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes on the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy - and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his fathers' graves, and his children's birthright is forgotten.
Chief Seattle
What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to man. All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the children of the earth.
Chief Seattle
"We did not ask you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as a home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here, you are taking my land from me, you are killing off our game, so it is hard for us to live.
Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them."
Crazy Horse - Sioux
bull**** from someone whos in the industry,your full of it,stick to something you actually know something about.
I spend 2 hours every day signing permits,all but one are environmental before I can do anything I do while doing reclamation,some folks like flossy have no idea what its like.I have 2 inspectors watching everything I do when doing reclamation.
I've seen spread bosses in court for 5 years because they killed a dozen fish.They were grailing or whitefish and when all was said and done it worked out to about 100 grand a fish to the taxpayer for the legal fight.
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I hear ya there... I did my stint in reclamation and got fed up with the attitudes of the AEUB and AEP.
I hear ya too! I got a few hundred kliks of protected prarie public pasture land to reclaim this summer in SK and its brutal! I make about $300.00 a day less then as a juniour inspector but at least I wont be going to court for years if someone takes a piss off a lease site without a permit.
I recall (quite a while ago now), doing some work on what should have been a lease-for-life out near Drumheller... It was a well that was developed in the 50's when the practice was to flare-pit everything.
The lease was on the cusp of a relatively steep slope and had this thick seam of sand just a couple of meters below grade.... Man, the crap that just flowed through that seam got everywhere. I'll bet that site (one lease mind you) cost them low 7 figures to get up to spec.
I don't have any sympathy for the group that is paying, but for all the truthers out there that think there are no regs in place - well, I will argue that point very aggressively,
The lease was on the cusp of a relatively steep slope and had this thick seam of sand just a couple of meters below grade.... Man, the crap that just flowed through that seam got everywhere. I'll bet that site (one lease mind you) cost them low 7 figures to get up to spec.
I don't have any sympathy for the group that is paying, but for all the truthers out there that think there are no regs in place - well, I will argue that point very aggressively,
Sustainability in the sense of keeping the oil business in business maybe.
Strip mining several thousand square kms of Canadian wilderness while pollutiing priceless rivers and lakes and increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the air is probably not going to make it onto most peoples lists of sustainable activities.
Strip mining several thousand square kms of Canadian wilderness while pollutiing priceless rivers and lakes and increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the air is probably not going to make it onto most peoples lists of sustainable activities.
They haven't mentioned what they plan to do.
For all we know it could be just like a whole lot of political talk, talk.
That didn't stop you from writing countless pages of posts, pushing it and defending Der Leader on the matter.
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Strip mines are a lot more eco friendly then clear cut logging.
Obviously your very ignorant on how strip mines work,I did 22 years at one in case you want to know how they work.
Get ready folks.. this is the new meme..
``Oilsands fever'' is clouding political judgment, analyst warns
OTTAWA - In the runup to Tom Mulcair's much-anticipated Alberta visit on Thursday, a Calgary-based think-tank said Wednesday Canada is suffering from ``oilsands fever,'' a modified version of the so-called ``Dutch disease'' concept cited by the NDP leader as the reason Canada is losing hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs.
The Pembina analysis - which lends support to Mulcair's controversial argument that the booming oilsands sector is artificially-inflating the Canadian dollar and hurting manufacturers, especially in Ontario and Quebec - was one of two conflicting report released Wednesday.
And one of the co-authors of the Pembina Institute report argues the potential for regional alienation is so strong that Canada could face a repeat of the divisive period of the confiscatory 1980 National Energy Program - except this time Central and Eastern Canada will be the victims.
``I actually think right now we're potentially seeing that exact same dynamic setting up but with the roles reversed, with the West being perceived to be benefitting and to be supported by the federal government in pursuing their interests at the expense of Central and eastern Canada,'' said Pembina co-author Dan Woynillowicz.
``So I think we're on the precipice of perhaps, of a repeat of the NEP in terms of the divisions that it fosters and the mistrust of the federal government that arises from that.''
Woynillowicz added: ``Canada has a unique strain of Dutch disease - oilsands fever.''
The ``fever'' is clouding political judgment and causing interprovincial tension and future threats to the Canadian economy, he said.
Mulcair's Alberta trip was organized after his recent media comments about western premiers being Prime Minister Stephen Harper's ``messengers'' infuriated Alberta Premier Alison Redford.
``People have said this is a statement that is against the West,'' said Mulcair, who will visit Fort McMurray for the first time Thursday and tour the Suncor oilsands plant, told reporters in Ottawa on Wednesday. ``Well, you would be very hard-pressed to find any statement that I've made that was with respect to any specific region.''
He said his message of sustainable development and the need for polluter-pay policies is the same in all regions of the country, from New Brunswick to B.C.
The authors credited Mulcair for raising an issue ``worthy of discussion,'' but added they don't share the NDP leader's view the single solution to the problem is to simply enforce federal environmental laws to ensure ``polluter pay'' principles are engaged.
Instead, Pembina is advocating a series of measures to deal with a growing imbalance that favours commodity-based provinces at the expense of Ontario and Quebec.
They called for the creation of a federal fund along the lines of the Alberta Heritage Fund, where $2.7 billion in annual oil and gas tax revenues to Ottawa would be invested in foreign currencies.
They said that investment wouldn't have a significant impact on the value of the Canadian dollar, since the amounts are relatively small, but they said the money could be used to ``smooth out'' the boom-and-bust economic cycle caused by an economy increasingly reliant on oil and gas production and prices.
Pembina is also calling for an end to ``preferential tax treatment'' for the oil patch and said both the Royal Society of Canada and a parliamentary committee should launch studies looking at the impact of the high dollar on the economy.
The Macdonald-Laurier report, which like Pembina bases its analysis on previously-published material, said the oilsands isn't a win-lose proposition.
``While it may be that worldwide high commodity prices cause foreigners to buy more petroleum exports and fewer manufactured goods from Canada, the authors point out that the oil and gas industry in turn uses those higher revenues to purchase vast amounts of goods and services in the rest of the country,'' stated a Macdonald-Laurier summary of the report.
``In effect petroleum-rich provinces become the new `export markets' for the rest of the country.''
``Oilsands fever'' is clouding political judgment, analyst warns
``Oilsands fever'' is clouding political judgment, analyst warns
OTTAWA - In the runup to Tom Mulcair's much-anticipated Alberta visit on Thursday, a Calgary-based think-tank said Wednesday Canada is suffering from ``oilsands fever,'' a modified version of the so-called ``Dutch disease'' concept cited by the NDP leader as the reason Canada is losing hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs.
The Pembina analysis - which lends support to Mulcair's controversial argument that the booming oilsands sector is artificially-inflating the Canadian dollar and hurting manufacturers, especially in Ontario and Quebec - was one of two conflicting report released Wednesday.
And one of the co-authors of the Pembina Institute report argues the potential for regional alienation is so strong that Canada could face a repeat of the divisive period of the confiscatory 1980 National Energy Program - except this time Central and Eastern Canada will be the victims.
``I actually think right now we're potentially seeing that exact same dynamic setting up but with the roles reversed, with the West being perceived to be benefitting and to be supported by the federal government in pursuing their interests at the expense of Central and eastern Canada,'' said Pembina co-author Dan Woynillowicz.
``So I think we're on the precipice of perhaps, of a repeat of the NEP in terms of the divisions that it fosters and the mistrust of the federal government that arises from that.''
Woynillowicz added: ``Canada has a unique strain of Dutch disease - oilsands fever.''
The ``fever'' is clouding political judgment and causing interprovincial tension and future threats to the Canadian economy, he said.
Mulcair's Alberta trip was organized after his recent media comments about western premiers being Prime Minister Stephen Harper's ``messengers'' infuriated Alberta Premier Alison Redford.
``People have said this is a statement that is against the West,'' said Mulcair, who will visit Fort McMurray for the first time Thursday and tour the Suncor oilsands plant, told reporters in Ottawa on Wednesday. ``Well, you would be very hard-pressed to find any statement that I've made that was with respect to any specific region.''
He said his message of sustainable development and the need for polluter-pay policies is the same in all regions of the country, from New Brunswick to B.C.
The authors credited Mulcair for raising an issue ``worthy of discussion,'' but added they don't share the NDP leader's view the single solution to the problem is to simply enforce federal environmental laws to ensure ``polluter pay'' principles are engaged.
Instead, Pembina is advocating a series of measures to deal with a growing imbalance that favours commodity-based provinces at the expense of Ontario and Quebec.
They called for the creation of a federal fund along the lines of the Alberta Heritage Fund, where $2.7 billion in annual oil and gas tax revenues to Ottawa would be invested in foreign currencies.
They said that investment wouldn't have a significant impact on the value of the Canadian dollar, since the amounts are relatively small, but they said the money could be used to ``smooth out'' the boom-and-bust economic cycle caused by an economy increasingly reliant on oil and gas production and prices.
Pembina is also calling for an end to ``preferential tax treatment'' for the oil patch and said both the Royal Society of Canada and a parliamentary committee should launch studies looking at the impact of the high dollar on the economy.
The Macdonald-Laurier report, which like Pembina bases its analysis on previously-published material, said the oilsands isn't a win-lose proposition.
``While it may be that worldwide high commodity prices cause foreigners to buy more petroleum exports and fewer manufactured goods from Canada, the authors point out that the oil and gas industry in turn uses those higher revenues to purchase vast amounts of goods and services in the rest of the country,'' stated a Macdonald-Laurier summary of the report.
``In effect petroleum-rich provinces become the new `export markets' for the rest of the country.''
``Oilsands fever'' is clouding political judgment, analyst warns
If you would stop driving there would be no demand for their product, hence no oilsands. Put the blame where it belongs. On the consumer, not the producer.
Waste of time trying to debate these guys that have only western jelousy on their mind,maybe in ten years they will get over it.
They will still be whining and crying long after we have made a lot of Canadians better off and with a better quality of life.Kind of sad actually as most of their whining is for nothing,it has no impact on oil prices or demand and no impact on production so suck it up flossy,your beating a dead horse.
It's the players in the know that make all the desicions,whiners like you just drive prices higher with all the regs and BS.
Not once have I ever been laid off due to environmental policies.I've seen sections of a job shut down untill a nesting plovers chicks fledged out,that adds about 5 figures to the job price and it just gets passed on down to the consumer so dont bitch next time you fill your tank.
They will still be whining and crying long after we have made a lot of Canadians better off and with a better quality of life.Kind of sad actually as most of their whining is for nothing,it has no impact on oil prices or demand and no impact on production so suck it up flossy,your beating a dead horse.
It's the players in the know that make all the desicions,whiners like you just drive prices higher with all the regs and BS.
Not once have I ever been laid off due to environmental policies.I've seen sections of a job shut down untill a nesting plovers chicks fledged out,that adds about 5 figures to the job price and it just gets passed on down to the consumer so dont bitch next time you fill your tank.
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