WE really need to get rid of this guy

Ron in Regina

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How was it even possible for Rota to laud Hunka as a Ukrainian and Canadian “hero” who fought against the Russians in the Second World War?

A simple matter, perhaps, of Russians bad, Ukrainians good?

Except, of course, in the Second World War the Russians were fighting with allies such as Canada. Russia lost almost 30 million people in the war, the most of any nation.

So, Russians good, Ukrainians bad?

Except, of course, Stalin was a monster in human form, a tyrant to his own people and a hell of a lot worse to others, like the Ukrainians, a nation he tried to starve to death. And now Vladimir Putin launches an unjustified war against Ukraine.

That’s the problem with history; it’s complicated, sometimes ugly, often inconvenient, but always worth preserving — without it we would never really know how we got here or where we want to go.
Not content with inviting a Nazi to Parliament last week, the Liberals want to expunge the embarrassment from the official record, presumably on the basis that if you can’t rewrite history, then just delete it.

Government House Leader Karina Gould asked members of the House of Commons Monday to “collectively work together to strike the recognition” of Yaroslav Hunka from Hansard, the official record of what goes on in Parliament.

Gould did not explain how deleting the record would stop the embarrassing headlines from around the world, or assuage the justified anger of Jews and Poles whose families were slaughtered in their thousands by the 14th Waffen-SS Division, of which Hunka was a member.
 

petros

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How was it even possible for Rota to laud Hunka as a Ukrainian and Canadian “hero” who fought against the Russians in the Second World War?

A simple matter, perhaps, of Russians bad, Ukrainians good?

Except, of course, in the Second World War the Russians were fighting with allies such as Canada. Russia lost almost 30 million people in the war, the most of any nation.

So, Russians good, Ukrainians bad?

Except, of course, Stalin was a monster in human form, a tyrant to his own people and a hell of a lot worse to others, like the Ukrainians, a nation he tried to starve to death. And now Vladimir Putin launches an unjustified war against Ukraine.

That’s the problem with history; it’s complicated, sometimes ugly, often inconvenient, but always worth preserving — without it we would never really know how we got here or where we want to go.
Not content with inviting a Nazi to Parliament last week, the Liberals want to expunge the embarrassment from the official record, presumably on the basis that if you can’t rewrite history, then just delete it.

Government House Leader Karina Gould asked members of the House of Commons Monday to “collectively work together to strike the recognition” of Yaroslav Hunka from Hansard, the official record of what goes on in Parliament.

Gould did not explain how deleting the record would stop the embarrassing headlines from around the world, or assuage the justified anger of Jews and Poles whose families were slaughtered in their thousands by the 14th Waffen-SS Division, of which Hunka was a member.
Western and Eastern Ukraine are different. Even today. This needs more context than whats given.
 
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Ron in Regina

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No one is accusing Rota of intentionally feting a Nazi, or of harbouring racist sympathies. This is simply another case of Liberal incompetence, like inviting a convicted Sikh terrorist to an official dinner when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau visited India in 2018.
On a political level, I get it: Rota was nothing if not expendable. The worst case scenario for the Liberals is that they gain an extra vote in Parliament (the Speaker only casts a vote in the event of a tie) and stop the bad press for a few days until the next scandal breaks. And surely it must feel good for MPs to stick it to the guy who has spent years scolding them for bad behaviour and lecturing them about archaic parliamentary procedures.

But in the end, this is little more than an exercise in political theatre. MPs are now surely feeling a melodramatic sense of self-righteousness, having whipped themselves into a frenzy, incited a mob of their fellow “commoners” and driven the witch out of town. But our country, our democracy, is no better off because of it. They chased off the wrong witch.
 

Serryah

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How was it even possible for Rota to laud Hunka as a Ukrainian and Canadian “hero” who fought against the Russians in the Second World War?

A simple matter, perhaps, of Russians bad, Ukrainians good?

Except, of course, in the Second World War the Russians were fighting with allies such as Canada. Russia lost almost 30 million people in the war, the most of any nation.

So, Russians good, Ukrainians bad?

Except, of course, Stalin was a monster in human form, a tyrant to his own people and a hell of a lot worse to others, like the Ukrainians, a nation he tried to starve to death. And now Vladimir Putin launches an unjustified war against Ukraine.

That’s the problem with history; it’s complicated, sometimes ugly, often inconvenient, but always worth preserving — without it we would never really know how we got here or where we want to go.

Pretty much all this, yes.

Not content with inviting a Nazi to Parliament last week, the Liberals want to expunge the embarrassment from the official record, presumably on the basis that if you can’t rewrite history, then just delete it.

Now that is something I can say "Fuck you" to Trudeau about. Regardless of how it happened, it happened. Own it, FFS, use it as a way to ensure it doesn't happen in the future but don't 'erase' it.

Goddamn idiot.

Government House Leader Karina Gould asked members of the House of Commons Monday to “collectively work together to strike the recognition” of Yaroslav Hunka from Hansard, the official record of what goes on in Parliament.

Gould did not explain how deleting the record would stop the embarrassing headlines from around the world, or assuage the justified anger of Jews and Poles whose families were slaughtered in their thousands by the 14th Waffen-SS Division, of which Hunka was a member.

Exactly; this isn't fifty years ago when news of this would be slow as snail shit. This is modern instant demand day.

You CAN'T just wipe it out, it's now out there forever.
 

Ron in Regina

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Trudeau sort of apologizes while continuing to throw Rota under the bus:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau offered what he described as unreserved apologies on behalf of Parliament Wednesday after a 98-year-old who fought with a Nazi unit during the Second World War was honoured Friday during an official visit from Volodymyr Zelensky.

While delivering remarks on Parliament Hill, Mr. Trudeau also said Wednesday the Speaker was “solely responsible for the invitation and the recognition of this man and has wholly accepted that responsibility and stepped down.

“This was a mistake that has deeply embarrassed Parliament and Canada,” he said.
 

Serryah

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Trudeau sort of apologizes while continuing to throw Rota under the bus:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau offered what he described as unreserved apologies on behalf of Parliament Wednesday after a 98-year-old who fought with a Nazi unit during the Second World War was honoured Friday during an official visit from Volodymyr Zelensky.

While delivering remarks on Parliament Hill, Mr. Trudeau also said Wednesday the Speaker was “solely responsible for the invitation and the recognition of this man and has wholly accepted that responsibility and stepped down.

“This was a mistake that has deeply embarrassed Parliament and Canada,” he said.

Okay, but really, what if it WAS just on the Speaker, and had nothing to do with Trudeau or anyone else?

Yes, the vetting process obviously failed at least in informing the Speaker this guy was part of a Nazi unit in WWII.

But his own team vets people, so... what if the PMO had nothing to do with it?

It's not Rota falling on his sword or being tossed under the bus. It's the man owning up to making a mistake, and now he's paid for it.

And people throwing shade at Trudeau over something even he had nothing to do with.

As it is, I wonder if even Zolenskyy would face heavy backlash home since the symbols of that unit are held with some semblance of honor in Ukraine.


The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) is today honored by many Ukrainian nationalists.[58] Since 2010 every year on 28 April a march is held to celebrate the foundation of the division.[59] In addition streets were named after the division in Ivano-Frankivsk (Ukrains`koi Dyvizii Street) and Ternopil (Soldiers Division "Galicia" Street).[60]

On 23 September 2020, the Ukrainian Supreme Court ruled that symbols of SS Division Galicia do not belong to the Nazis and therefore were not banned in the country. The same argument was made by the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory, led at the time by Volodymyr Viatrovych.[61]


Now, normally I'm not a Nationalist supporter since they tend to go hand in hand with Authoritarianism which leads to dictatorship, historically. That said, in the terms of present day Ukraine fighting Russia, Nationalism is a boon to keep moral up.

So... would this even be a huge "Faux Pas" in Ukraine?

Which again brings up the "Was he a kid signing up to defend his country against Russian invaders - on the right or wrong side of the war - or was a legit Nazi?"
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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It would be ironic if after all the years of dodging scandal and corruption that he had his hands very dirty in but has bounced off him like teflon, that something that he may have had nothing to do with is what sticks on him and brings him down.
 

petros

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Okay, but really, what if it WAS just on the Speaker, and had nothing to do with Trudeau or anyone else?

Yes, the vetting process obviously failed at least in informing the Speaker this guy was part of a Nazi unit in WWII.

But his own team vets people, so... what if the PMO had nothing to do with it?

It's not Rota falling on his sword or being tossed under the bus. It's the man owning up to making a mistake, and now he's paid for it.

And people throwing shade at Trudeau over something even he had nothing to do with.

As it is, I wonder if even Zolenskyy would face heavy backlash home since the symbols of that unit are held with some semblance of honor in Ukraine.


The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) is today honored by many Ukrainian nationalists.[58] Since 2010 every year on 28 April a march is held to celebrate the foundation of the division.[59] In addition streets were named after the division in Ivano-Frankivsk (Ukrains`koi Dyvizii Street) and Ternopil (Soldiers Division "Galicia" Street).[60]

On 23 September 2020, the Ukrainian Supreme Court ruled that symbols of SS Division Galicia do not belong to the Nazis and therefore were not banned in the country. The same argument was made by the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory, led at the time by Volodymyr Viatrovych.[61]


Now, normally I'm not a Nationalist supporter since they tend to go hand in hand with Authoritarianism which leads to dictatorship, historically. That said, in the terms of present day Ukraine fighting Russia, Nationalism is a boon to keep moral up.

So... would this even be a huge "Faux Pas" in Ukraine?

Which again brings up the "Was he a kid signing up to defend his country against Russian invaders - on the right or wrong side of the war - or was a legit Nazi?"
Western Ukraine has a people who are known as Rusyn (Kyivan Rus). By the time the Nazis rolled through theyd fought Hungarians, Polish and Germans and Soviets in the prior 35 years. At one point they had an independant Ukraine.

Canada is loaded with Rusyns who dont know they are Rusyn but think they are Ukrainian.

 
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Ron in Regina

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Okay, but really, what if it WAS just on the Speaker, and had nothing to do with Trudeau or anyone else?
OK, but what if there a process & procedures in place, multi-layered, involving CSIS, the RCMP Security Details, the PMO, the Privy Council, Parliamentary Protective Service, and a myriad of consultants so that things like this don’t happen?
Yes, the vetting process obviously failed at least in informing the Speaker this guy was part of a Nazi unit in WWII.
Yep.
But his own team vets people, so... what if the PMO had nothing to do with it?

It's not Rota falling on his sword or being tossed under the bus. It's the man owning up to making a mistake, and now he's paid for it.
I guess it’s a matter of perception. I’m biased, & I fully admit that, but I am seeing Rota both falling on his own sword & Trudeau throwing him under the bus repeatedly. In a Liberal caucus full of scandals and ethics violations…can you find anything tying Rota back to any of them in the almost two decades he’s been in Parliament?
And people throwing shade at Trudeau over something even he had nothing to do with.
Yeah, I hear you. He’s done lots of shitty shit that he’s fully responsible for, and this one could be one he’s not directly responsible for, so this one is potentially ironic in that light for Trudeau as the head of the Liberal Governing Party.
As it is, I wonder if even Zolenskyy would face heavy backlash home since the symbols of that unit are held with some semblance of honor in Ukraine.

The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) is today honored by many Ukrainian nationalists.[58] Since 2010 every year on 28 April a march is held to celebrate the foundation of the division.[59] In addition streets were named after the division in Ivano-Frankivsk (Ukrains`koi Dyvizii Street) and Ternopil (Soldiers Division "Galicia" Street).[60]

On 23 September 2020, the Ukrainian Supreme Court ruled that symbols of SS Division Galicia do not belong to the Nazis and therefore were not banned in the country. The same argument was made by the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory, led at the time by Volodymyr Viatrovych.[61]

Now, normally I'm not a Nationalist supporter since they tend to go hand in hand with Authoritarianism which leads to dictatorship, historically. That said, in the terms of present day Ukraine fighting Russia, Nationalism is a boon to keep moral up.

So... would this even be a huge "Faux Pas" in Ukraine?

Which again brings up the "Was he a kid signing up to defend his country against Russian invaders - on the right or wrong side of the war - or was a legit Nazi?"
In WW2, Canada & Russia were allies. Today, not so much.
 

Serryah

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OK, but what if there a process & procedures in place, multi-layered, involving CSIS, the RCMP Security Details, the PMO, the Privy Council, Parliamentary Protective Service, and a myriad of consultants so that things like this don’t happen?

Well you didn't answer my question, but I will answer yours.

In that case, it was a failure not just of Rota, but of those other agencies. And whoever approved him to be brought to the House to speak. Does Trudeau have to approve everyone that comes to speak? Not that I'm aware. So failure of the other organizations, failure of Rota's vetting people...

Still not sure how this is shoved on Trudeau so much as somehow being the 'ultimate at fault party'.

In WW2, Canada & Russia were allies. Today, not so much.

Because the Nazi's screwed them over; had they not, Stalin would have been fighting the Allies. Remember, they weren't allies until Operation Barbarossa in 41.

Considering what Stalin was - a guy who was worse than Putin but is Putin's hero, probably - using "we were allies once" as an excuse is a hard ass no at least in my view.

War made us have to choose him.

He was NOT an ally.
 

Serryah

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Based on Trudeau's history, what do you think he'd be saying and doing if this happened under the watch of a Conservative govt?

I don't know. If given the EXACT situation, including how every MP in the House stood to applaud, likely he'd be doing with PP is doing.

Or he might have just done what Ron suggested, sort of - and blamed who was in power at the time regardless of him and his party standing up as well.
 

Ron in Regina

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Well, Mr Trudeau did show up for work this week eventually, and he did apologize, on behalf of Canada & Parliamentarians (not himself)…& that this is a ‘learning opportunity’ (that sounds so familiar), etc…
…& question about the vetting process…
So conservatives are bad, & careful what you wish for? Ok, got it? Previous apology in parliament for comparison I guess:
 
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spaminator

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Quebec police watchdog investigating shooting of Legault, Trudeau threat suspect
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Published Sep 28, 2023 • 1 minute read

SCOTSTOWN, Que. — Quebec’s police watchdog is investigating after a member of a provincial police tactical team shot a man suspected of making threats toward Premier Francois Legault and Prime Minster Justin Trudeau.


The agency, known as the Bureau des enquetes independantes, says the shooting occurred during an attempted arrest early Wednesday morning at a home in Scotstown, Que., about 180 kilometres east of Montreal.


According to the BEI, an officer who was looking through a window shot the suspect when he saw him point a gun toward the door where officers were entering.

It says the man was wounded and is in stable condition.

Montreal police confirmed late Wednesday that the suspect had allegedly made threats against Legault and Trudeau.

Legault’s office said in a statement that it is aware of the situation and that all threats against elected officials are unacceptable and should be denounced.