WE really need to get rid of this guy

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Whats is better for China? An incumbent MP that blocks trade or one that is willing? An MP that screams Uygur genocide and human Rights or one that is silent? An MP that screams "climate change" or one that is okay with pipelines and coal exports....etc etc etc
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I hear you. I too, would like to know.

The concern, however, is that it’s a judgment call whether foreign interference in a Canadian federal election rises to the level of calling into question the overall results and the public has no way of knowing how that was determined, since we don’t know what the incidents of foreign interference were.
Bingo. So until they come across with some hard, verifiable facts, it's just more of the same.

For a "man" who never did an honest day's work in his life, True Dope sure can shovel bullshit like a seasoned ranch hand!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Opposition former MP Kenny Chiu, who emigrated to Canada from Hong Kong in 1982, said he believed Chinese agents smeared him as a racist in WeChat and Mandarin-language media reports ahead of February 2021's election. He had advocated for transparent elections in Hong Kong, voted in favor of declaring a genocide in Xinjiang, and tabled a bill calling for a foreing influence registry.

Chiu said he was given the "distancing treatment" by Chinese media and that "during the campaign people were shutting the door in my face" when he tried to reach local Chinese voters. He would go on to lose the seat he had picked up from Trudeau's Liberal party in 2019, although the contested seat in British Colombia has changed hands in each of Canada's last four federal votes.

Nelly Shin a Korean Canadian Conservative MP in a Korean neighbourhood somehow lost her seat.

I bet I can find more.
 

The_Foxer

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Aug 9, 2022
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I hear you. I too, would like to know.

The concern, however, is that it’s a judgment call whether foreign interference in a Canadian federal election rises to the level of calling into question the overall results and the public has no way of knowing how that was determined, since we don’t know what the incidents of foreign interference were.
and that's only part of the problem. The other part is that it's not just the elected officials, but their top people in their offices. If an mp hires a guy because he can 'arrange' financing for his campaign and that guy is a chinese operative, then whenever an issue comes up that's important to the chinese then this 'close advisor' is in a position to advocate strongly for the chinese friendly point of view and push that mp in that direction.

There is also control of the chinese canadian media, where they can pay to really attack one candidate over another. That has been identified from the last election.

So there are many ways the chinese can and do interfere. Directly with friendly mps, semi-directly by putting their people inside mp's offices as 'trusted advisors'. And indirectly through targeted media spending (or threats). And when you put it all together it can have a powerful effect.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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and that's only part of the problem. The other part is that it's not just the elected officials, but their top people in their offices. If an mp hires a guy because he can 'arrange' financing for his campaign and that guy is a chinese operative, then whenever an issue comes up that's important to the chinese then this 'close advisor' is in a position to advocate strongly for the chinese friendly point of view and push that mp in that direction.

There is also control of the chinese canadian media, where they can pay to really attack one candidate over another. That has been identified from the last election.

So there are many ways the chinese can and do interfere. Directly with friendly mps, semi-directly by putting their people inside mp's offices as 'trusted advisors'. And indirectly through targeted media spending (or threats). And when you put it all together it can have a powerful effect.
Sad that the most simple and honest transactions in government are the illegal ones.
 

petros

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I dont think TB is aware of communities like Richmond or South Van or Metrotown that are predominately Chinese. 3 MP in the same region can hold plenty of sway.

The last thing China wants is a white or Indian holding a seat in those ridings.
 
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The_Foxer

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I dont think TB is aware of communities like Richmond or South Van or Metrotown that are predominately Chinese. 3 MP in the same region can hold plenty of sway.

The last thing China wants is a white or Indian holding a seat in those ridings.
Well sure and it's not just the MP. You could be in north van and have a white mp, but if the guy running his operation is a chinese sympathizer then he controls who has access to the mp, what correspondence does or doesn't get through to his desk and most importantly the information that guy or girl uses for decision making. IT's pretty easy to stack the evidence to lean the way you want and get them to pressure the party in one direction or another.

And when you look at the goings on over the last 7 years, ut really does make you wonder,
 

The_Foxer

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Tecumsehsbones

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Here they want to participate and take advantage of business opportunities especially those on territorial lands. Oil, gas, potash, uranium etc etc.

Evil shit for easterners.
Oh, we're MUCH more efficient. We find valuable mineral resources, we just re-draw the rez borders!

Or, if that gets too hot politically, we negotiate with the mineral companies for the poor, naive, childlike Induns, make sure they don't get screwed, and put the money in the Mineral Trust Fund. Then, just to make sure the records are complete and safe, we store them in buildings full of hantavirus.

Yep, we're pretty good to our Induns.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Oh, we're MUCH more efficient. We find valuable mineral resources, we just re-draw the rez borders!

Or, if that gets too hot politically, we negotiate with the mineral companies for the poor, naive, childlike Induns, make sure they don't get screwed, and put the money in the Mineral Trust Fund. Then, just to make sure the records are complete and safe, we store them in buildings full of hantavirus.

Yep, we're pretty good to our Induns.
Rez borders don't matter here. Traditional lands include a tribe's turf even within a numbered Treaty with other tribes or bands. Basically a 3 day walk in all directions from their main home that they hunted fished and harvested.

Read the Treaties sometime. Interesting stuff. Eye opening. They are temporary.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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What, exactly, did this "Chinese interference" consist of?
Good question. I’m assuming (supplemented by years of reading) that the Chinese preferred a certain outcome in Federal (& provincial & municipal) elections in Canada that would govern their “interference” accordingly…whatever it is/was.

The government (Canadian) would in turn base their reaction it seems upon the goal of the Chinese chosen outcome as to how to react to the Chinese “interference.”

In the nature of openness & transparency, with our Gov’t being so forthright on this topic, it has been shared openly with the public (not) the answer to your question.

To attempt to try to further answer your question, it would have to be determined what outcome the Chinese government was seeking in Canadian elections, and then look for “interference” on their part that would influence the outcome towards their goals. Clear as a Gov’t press release.
I'm just suspicious of vague terms like "Chinese interference." It reminds me of when the Bush the Lesser administration latched on the the "WMDs" term. Classically, "WMDs" are "NBC weapons:" nuclear, biological, & chemical. The Bush the Smaller bunch took the fact that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons (which we knew because we had the receipts) and bootstrapped that into "WMDs," then used that to imply that Saddam Hussein had or was on the verge of developing nuclear weapons (Condoleeza Rice's famous quote about "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud").

That's the technique. Take a fairly innocuous occurrence (for example, the Chinese government directing some Chinese organizations, government or private, to attempt to influence Canadian opinion with internet posts), give it a nice, generic term like "Chinese interference," and then darkly hint that they're using spy satellites and balloons to alter the ballot tallies.

So, the way to cut through this is to demand to know exactly what "the Chinese" did, and ask "Is that illegal?" If so, publicize it, warn the public about it, and prosecute it to the extent possible. If not, the government has better things to do. Like govern.
China employed a sophisticated strategy to disrupt Canada’s democracy in the 2021 federal election campaign as Chinese diplomats and their proxies backed the re-election of Justin Trudeau’s Liberals – but only to another minority government – and worked to defeat Conservative politicians considered to be unfriendly to Beijing.

The full extent of the Chinese interference operation is laid bare in both secret and top-secret Canadian Security Intelligence Service documents viewed by The Globe and Mail that cover the period before and after the September, 2021, election that returned the Liberals to office.

The CSIS reports were shared among senior government officials and Canada’s Five Eyes intelligence allies of the United States, Britain, Australia and New Zealand. Some of this intelligence was also shared with French and German spy services.

Over the past decade, China, under President Xi Jinping, has adopted a more aggressive foreign policy as it seeks to expand its political, economic and military influence around the world.

MPs on the Commons Procedure and House Affairs committee are already looking into allegations that China interfered in the 2019 election campaign to support 11 candidates, most of them Liberal, in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).

Drawn from a series of CSIS intelligence-gathering operations, the documents illustrate how an orchestrated machine was operating in Canada with two primary aims: to ensure that a minority Liberal government was returned in 2021, and that certain Conservative candidates identified by China were defeated.

The documents say the Chinese Communist Party leadership in Beijing was “pressuring its consulates to create strategies to leverage politically [active] Chinese community members and associations within Canadian society.” Beijing uses Canadian organizations to advocate on their behalf “while obfuscating links to the People’s Republic of China.”

The classified reports viewed by The Globe reveal that China’s former consul-general in Vancouver, Tong Xiaoling, boasted in 2021 about how she helped defeat two Conservative MPs.

But despite being seen by China as the best leader for Canada, Beijing also wanted to keep Mr. Trudeau’s power in check – with a second Liberal minority in Parliament as the ideal outcome.

In early July, 2021 – eight weeks before election day – one consular official at an unnamed Chinese diplomatic mission in Canada said Beijing “likes it when the parties in Parliament are fighting with each other, whereas if there is a majority, the party in power can easily implement policies that do not favour the PRC.”

While the Chinese diplomat expressed unhappiness that the Liberals had recently become critical of China, the official added that the party is better than the alternatives. Canada-China relations hit their lowest point since the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre after December, 2018, when Beijing locked up two Canadians in apparent retaliation for Ottawa’s arrest of a Chinese Huawei executive on an extradition request from the United States.

Most important, the intelligence reports show that Beijing was determined that the Conservatives did not win.

China employed disinformation campaigns and proxies connected to Chinese-Canadian organizations in Vancouver and the GTA, which have large mainland Chinese immigrant communities, to voice opposition to the Conservatives and favour the Trudeau Liberals.

The CSIS documents reveal that Chinese diplomats and their proxies, including some members of the Chinese-language media, were instructed to press home that the Conservative Party was too critical of China and that, if elected, it would follow the lead of former U.S. president Donald Trump and ban Chinese students from certain universities or education programs.

“This will threaten the future of the voters’ children, as it will limit their education opportunities,” the CSIS report quoted the Chinese consulate official as saying. The official added: “The Liberal Party of Canada is becoming the only party that the PRC can support.”

CSIS also explained how Chinese diplomats conduct foreign interference operations in support of political candidates and elected officials. Tactics include undeclared cash donations to political campaigns or having business owners hire international Chinese students and “assign them to volunteer in electoral campaigns on a full-time basis.”

Sympathetic donors are also encouraged to provide campaign contributions to candidates favoured by China – donations for which they receive a tax credit from the federal government. Then, the CSIS report from Dec. 20, 2021 says, political campaigns quietly, and illegally, return part of the contribution – “the difference between the original donation and the government’s refund” – back to the donors.

A key part of their interference operation is to influence vulnerable Chinese immigrants in Canada. The intelligence reports quote an unnamed Chinese consulate official as saying it’s “easy to influence Chinese immigrants to agree with the PRC’s stance.”

China wants to build acceptance abroad for its claims on Taiwan, a self-ruled island that it considers a breakaway province and still reserves the right to annex by force. And it seeks to play down its conduct in Xinjiang, where the office of former UN Human Rights commissioner Michelle Bachelet last year said China has committed “serious human-rights violations” in the region, which may amount to crimes against humanity.

Similarly it wants to generate support for a draconian 2020 national-security law to silence opposition and dissent in Hong Kong, a former British colony that Beijing had once promised would be allowed to retain Western-style civil liberties for 50 years.

Beijing also seeks to quell foreign support for Tibet, a region China invaded and annexed more than 70 years ago, and to discourage opposition to Beijing’s militarization of the South China Sea and sweeping maritime claims in the region.

A month after the September, 2021, vote, CSIS reported that it was “well-known within the Chinese-Canadian community of British Columbia” that Ms. Tong, then the Vancouver consul-general, “wanted the Liberal Party to win the 2021 election,” one of the reports said.

CSIS noted that Ms. Tong, who returned to China in July, 2022, and former consul Wang Jin made “discreet and subtle efforts” to encourage members of Chinese-Canadian organizations to rally votes for the Liberals and defeat Conservative candidates.

CSIS said Mr. Wang has direct ties to the Chinese Communist Party’s United Front Work Department (UFWD), a vast organization that uses mostly covert and often manipulative operations to influence overseas ethnic Chinese communities and foreign governments. CSIS said Mr. Wang served as an intermediary between the UFWD and Chinese-Canadian community leaders in British Columbia.

In early November, 2021, CSIS reported, Ms. Tong discussed the defeat of a Vancouver-area Conservative, whom she described as a “vocal distractor” of the Chinese government. A national-security source said the MP was Kenny Chiu. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the source, who risks prosecution under the Security of Information Act.

The source said Mr. Chiu was targeted in retaliation for his criticism of China’s crackdown in Hong Kong and his 2021 private member’s bill aiming to establish a registry of foreign agents, an effort inspired by similar Australian legislation to combat foreign interference. The United States has a long-standing registry; Canada is still studying the matter.