Read more than my share. It wasn't a Hollywood production.
Just an observation.
We must never let Brussels turn Holocaust denial into a crime
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
Just an observation.
I'm quite interested in what you consider yourself to be. Anyone can post denial stuff. I'll take the word of a soldier who saw the bodies, smelled the stench and operated one of the bulldozers that bladed out then pushed the bodies of fleshed matchstick people into their mass graves over the ravings of one more deny-it-and-it-didn't-happen "thinker".
But you see, thats the great thing about holocaust denial. Its starting to kick up more and more now because fewer and fewer people who were alive to see it are around.
20 or30 years ago einubermensch (as he sees himself) wouldn't be able to give a lecture without dozens of people showing up, often family of those he's trying to convince to talk about their first hand experience with why he's wrong.
But in another 30 years, im sure this will kick up even more. Some people don't like to read, and instead just take half hearted ramblings on faith, like einmensch. Someone else writes something he wants to believe is true, so he believes it, without any verification for himself.
20 or30 years ago einubermensch (as he sees himself) wouldn't be able to give a lecture without dozens of people showing up, often family of those he's trying to convince to talk about their first hand experience with why he's wrong.
But in another 30 years, im sure this will kick up even more. Some people don't like to read, and instead just take half hearted ramblings on faith, like einmensch. Someone else writes something he wants to believe is true, so he believes it, without any verification for himself.
In the end it seems to turn out to be Germans who don't want to believe that people they knew were involved in such an atrocity who are attempting to revise history. The first hand accounts don't matter to them, because they want to believe that dad, grandpa, etc., weren't pawns of the worst of humanity, and didn't blindly follow orders and march human beings off to the camps to meet horrific ends.
"But you see, thats the great thing about holocaust denial. Its starting to kick up more and more now because fewer and fewer people who were alive to see it are around."
Time is the enemy of memory Zzarchov, you're right, fewer and fewer will remember or believe, and the crime, whatever it was or is, will be forgotten as so many other momentous histories of people have already been forgotten, like the starvation of four million Bengalis or the twenty to thirty million starved Indians, there are many similar slaughters all forgotten all put away safely where they become powerless dust. I wonder what the market value of the Holocaust has been and who has made money off the misery of that time?
Isn't that 'just' human nature, what is gone, is gone. People live in the present, remember
the recent past, (and learn from that), and look to the future, that seems normal to me, and 'just the way it is'.
People took advantage of others 1000 yrs ago, people do it now, and will, well into the
future, humans are a mixed bag, and always will be.
A rabbi once told me that Jesus was a Jew and that’s why good Christians like the nazi’s liked to kill Jews so they could all be saved.
The Spanish inquisition was all about killing those who did not believe in Jesus like the Jews.
That’s why you have the problems in the Middle East the Palestinians want to kill the Jews because they don’t believe in Jesus as the savior.
With the nazi experience Jews always say never again and they will defend Israel to the death.
If the Christians stopped trying to convert the Jews to their faith and let them worship in peace their, own religion then their would be peace.
So it’s all up to the Christians just stop trying to kill the Jews.
This brings me to my second point if the Christians were to pray to God more often and listen to God then they will hear the most sacred words. “Stop Killing The Jews”
The Spanish inquisition was all about killing those who did not believe in Jesus like the Jews.
That’s why you have the problems in the Middle East the Palestinians want to kill the Jews because they don’t believe in Jesus as the savior.
With the nazi experience Jews always say never again and they will defend Israel to the death.
If the Christians stopped trying to convert the Jews to their faith and let them worship in peace their, own religion then their would be peace.
So it’s all up to the Christians just stop trying to kill the Jews.
This brings me to my second point if the Christians were to pray to God more often and listen to God then they will hear the most sacred words. “Stop Killing The Jews”
Agreed man's inhumanity continues
Nizkor Lies about the Toxicity of Diesel Exhaust
Some comments to “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions” [1]
by Friedrich Paul Berg
Nizkor Lies about the Toxicity of Diesel Exhaust
Some comments to “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions” [1]
by Friedrich Paul Berg
Of the hundreds of essays from technical and medical journals that I have cited over the last twenty years to refute the Holocaust hoax, the linked essay by Pattle et al. is, by far, the most important. Please see my most recent discussion in Dissecting the Holocaust (2003) which is also on this website–(see Section 8.2 of that text). According to Holocaust mythology, most Nazi gassings were committed with Diesel exhaust in approximately half-an-hour, or even less. The essay by Pattle and four other researchers in Britain in the mid-1950’s is the only known inhalation study ever on living animals in which the diesel exhaust exposures consisted of full-strength diesel exhaust and continued until the animals either expired from the exposures, or until five hours had elapsed.
My first essay on this subject—“The Diesel Gas Chambers: Myth Within a Myth” (1984) was a highly theoretical analysis of the likely morbidity from diesel exhaust based on the well-established toxicity of carbon monoxide and reduced oxygen. A theoretical analysis in which all possible toxins in the exhaust could be considered seemed far too complex to have any real meaning. That shortcoming was answered, however, when the Pattle study was brought to my attention years later—and, it confirms everything I had written earlier about the inherent absurdity of diesel exhaust as a lethal agent for killing Jews or anyone else. But, it even shows that my earlier conclusions were actually quite conservative; the necessary conditions that one would have had to impose on any diesel to commit mass murder are even more preposterous than I had previously imagined.
The Pattle essay is thorough, rigorous and clear enough for all who are willing to read it carefully and honestly. There has never been any challenge to its findings either. Nonetheless, there are those who flagrantly misuse the Pattle essay and even claim, for example, that:
The reader should confirm for himself that according to Table 1, Column A of Pattle et al.(page 50), all of the animals survived five hours of continuous exposure to the diesel exhaust from an engine running at idle, and even continued to survive for another 7 days after being removed from the gas chamber.
The reader can also confirm for himself, that in the most lethal of the tests, D1, all of the animals were indeed dead within the five hour test period—but, the text on page 49 also states:
“ After one hour's exposure in D1 (0,22% CO), all except three of the 20 mice were dead. All the rabbits and guinea pigs were alive. After 3 hr. 20 min. all the animals were dead and the experiment was stopped.”
Surely, the Pattle et al. essay must be banned in Germany as soon as possible just as literature based on direct observations of the moons orbiting Jupiter were banned by the Catholic Church. Pattle et al. must be completely wrong in their conclusions since the Holocaust claims are legally established and binding on us all. If Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair and/or Edginton are still alive, they must all publicly apologize for their shameful experimental tests on living animals and admit their errors. And most important of all, Pattle et al. must publicly humiliate themselves for having unwittingly, or wittingly, given such superlative aid and affirmation to the holocaust deniers.
[1] “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under four different Running Conditions,” by R.E. Pattle, H.Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J.A.G. Edginton, British journal of industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pages 47-55. link
ADDENDUM as of July 2005
There are two more essays about diesel exhaust which are well worth examining. The first one has been consistently misused by Nizkor contributors. That essay is: "The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust Gas Analysis" by John C. Holtz and M. A. Elliott, Transactions of the ASME, 1941, 63, pp 97-105. link On the first page of that classic essay we have the following description of the arrangement that was used to impose various loads upon the engines--except for idle.
Another essay which has some importance (but never used by Nizkor as far as I know) is: “Death from diesel fumes” by S. Sivaloganathan, Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine, 1998, 5, 138-39. link An 83-year old man had died in a car fitted with a diesel engine. His blood showed less than 5% carboxyhemoglobin saturation.
My first essay on this subject—“The Diesel Gas Chambers: Myth Within a Myth” (1984) was a highly theoretical analysis of the likely morbidity from diesel exhaust based on the well-established toxicity of carbon monoxide and reduced oxygen. A theoretical analysis in which all possible toxins in the exhaust could be considered seemed far too complex to have any real meaning. That shortcoming was answered, however, when the Pattle study was brought to my attention years later—and, it confirms everything I had written earlier about the inherent absurdity of diesel exhaust as a lethal agent for killing Jews or anyone else. But, it even shows that my earlier conclusions were actually quite conservative; the necessary conditions that one would have had to impose on any diesel to commit mass murder are even more preposterous than I had previously imagined.
The Pattle essay is thorough, rigorous and clear enough for all who are willing to read it carefully and honestly. There has never been any challenge to its findings either. Nonetheless, there are those who flagrantly misuse the Pattle essay and even claim, for example, that:
“In all cases, the animals died.”
This blatant lie is spread primarily by one pro-Jewish organization called “Nizkor” See for example their internet essay entitled: “The Leuchter Report: Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to kill people.” But there are many other websites and organizations which simply repeat essentially the exact same Nizkor text and lie, even in German. Even more outrageous is the fact that such false propaganda is readily accessible in Germany and is even recommended by official organizations such as IDGR—but the refutation of the Nizkor lie, including this essay, are suppressed by German law and severe German internet restrictions on access providers. Nizkor
The reader should confirm for himself that according to Table 1, Column A of Pattle et al.(page 50), all of the animals survived five hours of continuous exposure to the diesel exhaust from an engine running at idle, and even continued to survive for another 7 days after being removed from the gas chamber.
The reader can also confirm for himself, that in the most lethal of the tests, D1, all of the animals were indeed dead within the five hour test period—but, the text on page 49 also states:
“ After one hour's exposure in D1 (0,22% CO), all except three of the 20 mice were dead. All the rabbits and guinea pigs were alive. After 3 hr. 20 min. all the animals were dead and the experiment was stopped.”
Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair, Edginton
But even this was only achieved with an exposure time more than six times as long as Gerstein and others have claimed for the alleged homicidal diesel gas chambers of the Nazis. In other words, for exposures of half-an-hour or less, hardly any animals die even under condition D1 and D2 which simulated an extreme loaded condition on the engine. Clearly, Nizkor and especially a (Dr.?) Daniel Keren are scurrilous liars—but their lie will, no doubt, persist indefinitely because it is an “essential lie” or prop for the Holocaust hoax.Surely, the Pattle et al. essay must be banned in Germany as soon as possible just as literature based on direct observations of the moons orbiting Jupiter were banned by the Catholic Church. Pattle et al. must be completely wrong in their conclusions since the Holocaust claims are legally established and binding on us all. If Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair and/or Edginton are still alive, they must all publicly apologize for their shameful experimental tests on living animals and admit their errors. And most important of all, Pattle et al. must publicly humiliate themselves for having unwittingly, or wittingly, given such superlative aid and affirmation to the holocaust deniers.
[1] “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under four different Running Conditions,” by R.E. Pattle, H.Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J.A.G. Edginton, British journal of industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pages 47-55. link
ADDENDUM as of July 2005
There are two more essays about diesel exhaust which are well worth examining. The first one has been consistently misused by Nizkor contributors. That essay is: "The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust Gas Analysis" by John C. Holtz and M. A. Elliott, Transactions of the ASME, 1941, 63, pp 97-105. link On the first page of that classic essay we have the following description of the arrangement that was used to impose various loads upon the engines--except for idle.
“TEST EQUIPMENT
Engines and Dynamometer. The two Diesel engines tested are described in Table 1. Each engine was mounted in a “power unit,” including radiator, fan, clutch, fuel system, and starting mechanism. In the test, each unit was coupled to an electric dynamometer rated at 45 hp from 1200 to 2500 rpm.”
Engines and Dynamometer. The two Diesel engines tested are described in Table 1. Each engine was mounted in a “power unit,” including radiator, fan, clutch, fuel system, and starting mechanism. In the test, each unit was coupled to an electric dynamometer rated at 45 hp from 1200 to 2500 rpm.”
Holtz, Elliott
Some Nizkor contributors have insisted over the years that all one had to do to produce toxic exhaust was “tune,” or “mistune,” some adjusting screw on the diesels. The text above shows that it is not that simple at all; on the contrary, careful thought and contruction is definitely required far beyond what one can expect from any auto mechanic. There was no indication of how long the victims had endured the diesel exhaust before expiring. As any kind of refutation of my thesis, it means little. The vagueness of the assertions by the author tends to only support my thesis that for half-an-hour exposures with an idling diesel, there is no meaningful danger to life at all. If there had been any danger for short term exposures, that would have revealed itself in the experiments of Pattle et al. Another essay which has some importance (but never used by Nizkor as far as I know) is: “Death from diesel fumes” by S. Sivaloganathan, Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine, 1998, 5, 138-39. link An 83-year old man had died in a car fitted with a diesel engine. His blood showed less than 5% carboxyhemoglobin saturation.
“Death was due to inhalation of soot from diesel fumes accelerated by ischaemic heart disease.”
Sivalognathan
There was no indication of how long the victim had endured the diesel exhaust before expiring. As any kind of refutation of my thesis, it means little. The vagueness of the assertions by the author tends to only support my thesis that for half-an-hour exposures with an idling diesel, there is no meaningful danger to life at all. If there had been any danger for short term exposures, that would have revealed itself in the experiments of Pattle et al.
Einmensch.....get today's Globe and Mail......read about the orphans......survivors of the holocaust, allowed into Canada......read about their memories of piles of bodies......about the fact only 1 in four survivors were girls because the Nazis often killed females immediately, prefering to work the males to death...
Pull your head out af your butt and look around.....all you are currently seeing or smelling is ****.
Pull your head out af your butt and look around.....all you are currently seeing or smelling is ****.
NOT ONE of you has posted anything other than opinion. You all know but can't post support for your opinion.
I think that the German people should demand forensic investigation rather than have laws to imprison anyone that investigates. I love the way NAZI is used to counter scientific results, -- I visited Mathausen in 1953 and believed but as time passed there were a few things that didn't make sense or add up. Perhaps you should read material other than that published by Zionists. Go read about soil studies, and reasearch that has been done by Phd criminals. Don't need to read. You know.
I think that the German people should demand forensic investigation rather than have laws to imprison anyone that investigates. I love the way NAZI is used to counter scientific results, -- I visited Mathausen in 1953 and believed but as time passed there were a few things that didn't make sense or add up. Perhaps you should read material other than that published by Zionists. Go read about soil studies, and reasearch that has been done by Phd criminals. Don't need to read. You know.
Oh I see...
Eye witness accounts of Piles of bodies are OPINION
Research done by the most respected history professors of our time are OPINIONS.
The existence of witnesses by the thousand are OPINIONS
The rail records of Nazi Germany are OPINION
The disappearance of almost 6 million Jews from the face of the earth is an OPINION.
But the rantings of Jew haters, idiots, the psychologically warped, attention-seekers and con artists.........with very little relevant academic accredition between them.......now THAT is important and factual.
Ya! What he said!
*Wolf escorts man in scarey suit to door. Smack ends in low rumble like thunder. Wolf grins as he claps dust from hands ... then high-fives Colpy....*
*Wolf escorts man in scarey suit to door. Smack ends in low rumble like thunder. Wolf grins as he claps dust from hands ... then high-fives Colpy....*
Yes, Colpy those who contradict 'facts' to support their own hate, should be pitied, and
definitely not respected, we have to go on with life, knowing what happened in our
past. The holocaust is factual history, a horrible happening, and we should all hang
our heads in shame, that our fellow 'humans' could do such a thing to another.
Mauthausen liberated Pictures--
Mauthausen Liberated
These are pictures at liberation??
The History Place - Holocaust Timeline
You are the hate mongers. You accuse and convict without proof. Just like Kaltbrunner was found guilty of the Katyn Massacre to which the Russians admitted to in 1990.
Mauthausen Liberated
These are pictures at liberation??
The History Place - Holocaust Timeline
You are the hate mongers. You accuse and convict without proof. Just like Kaltbrunner was found guilty of the Katyn Massacre to which the Russians admitted to in 1990.