We create that which we call God

[china]

At the present time, when there is greater and greater insecurity outwardly, there is obviously a yearning for inward security. Since we cannot find security outside, we seek it in an idea, in thought, and so we create that which we call God, and that concept becomes our security. Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true. To understand that which is beyond time, the fabrications of thought must come to an end. Thought cannot exist without words, symbols, images, and only when the mind is quiet, free of its own creations, is there a possibility of finding out what is real. So merely to ask if there is or is not God is an immature response to the problem, is it not? And to formulate opinions about God is really childish.
Your point of view

 

[talloola]

I am not seeking security, and as far as 'god' is concerned, there isnothing to talk about, I am not connected to that concept, so I willleave it to those who are asking the questions, or, as you say, thosewho are seeking security.

 

[JLM]

At the present time, when there is greater and greater insecurity outwardly, there is obviously a yearning for inward security. Since we cannot find security outside, we seek it in an idea, in thought, and so we create that which we call God, and that concept becomes our security. Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true. To understand that which is beyond time, the fabrications of thought must come to an end. Thought cannot exist without words, symbols, images, and only when the mind is quiet, free of its own creations, is there a possibility of finding out what is real. So merely to ask if there is or is not God is an immature response to the problem, is it not? And to formulate opinions about God is really childish.
Your point of view

As far as "God" is concerned, academically we don't know. When you piece together all the evidence, in my opinion there is definitely a higher power, be it God or Mother Nature. Do people really think that such a screwed up species as man is the ultimate? From what you say I take it you have no opinion about God.

 

[countryboy]

At the present time, when there is greater and greater insecurity outwardly, there is obviously a yearning for inward security. Since we cannot find security outside, we seek it in an idea, in thought, and so we create that which we call God, and that concept becomes our security. Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true. To understand that which is beyond time, the fabrications of thought must come to an end. Thought cannot exist without words, symbols, images, and only when the mind is quiet, free of its own creations, is there a possibility of finding out what is real. So merely to ask if there is or is not God is an immature response to the problem, is it not? And to formulate opinions about God is really childish.
Your point of view

I'm having a little difficulty understanding this one. I'm not being negative, I'm just curious as to what some of the sentences mean. For example, "Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true." - When you say "the real, the true", are you referring to security?

It's kind of an unusual way to introduce a topic, but you do have my interest. Can you tell us a bit more about "the real, the true"?

 

[JLM]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding this one. I'm not being negative, I'm just curious as to what some of the sentences mean. For example, "Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true." - When you say "the real, the true", are you referring to security?

It's kind of an unusual way to introduce a topic, but you do have my interest. Can you tell us a bit more about "the real, the true"?

If he knows himself.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[talloola]

If he knows himself.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

We musn't think we know oneself, because once we think we know, we stop
knowing,but think we know, and we don't. lol

 

[JLM]

We musn't think we know oneself, because once we think we know, we stop
knowing,but think we know, and we don't. lol

Sorry, omitted a comma.

 

[talloola]

Sorry, omitted a comma.

that's no fun, then my answer is obsolete and useless, well it
probably was anyway. lol

 

[Cliffy]

The gods have kept pace with human psychology. In the beginning the gods were representations of the natural world around us (Pan). Then as we developed city states, the gods became more representative of the developing human psyche (Oedipus). As empires began to build, gods took on the lord and master titles we see today.

It seems like we have not progressed much in the last few thousand years as we still have those titles. Perhaps the gods haven't heard of democracy yet. The majority of humans appear to still need masters to tell them how to think and behave. I guess evolution is moving like a snail when it comes to awareness.

 

[china]

countryboy

It's kind of an unusual way to introduce a topic, but you do have my interest. Can you tell us a bit more about "the real, the true

Through self-knowledge you begin to find out what is God, what is truth, what is that state which is timeless.

 

[china]

To understand God, you must first understand your own mind—which is very difficult. The mind is very complex, and to understand it is not easy. But it is easy enough to sit down and go into some kind of dream, have various visions, illusions, and then think that you are very near to God. The mind can deceive itself enormously. So, to really experience that which may be called God, you must be completely quiet—and have you not found out how extremely difficult that is? Have you not noticed how even the older people never sit quietly, how they fidget, how they wiggle their toes and move their hands? It is difficult physically to sit still, and how much more difficult it is for the mind to be still! You may follow some guru and force your mind to be quiet; but your mind is not really quiet. It is still restless, like a child that is made to stand in the corner. It is a great art for the mind to be completely silent without coercion, and only then is there a possibility to approach that which may be called God.

 

[JLM]

The gods have kept pace with human psychology. In the beginning the gods were representations of the natural world around us (Pan). Then as we developed city states, the gods became more representative of the developing human psyche (Oedipus). As empires began to build, gods took on the lord and master titles we see today.

It seems like we have not progressed much in the last few thousand years as we still have those titles. Perhaps the gods haven't heard of democracy yet. The majority of humans appear to still need masters to tell them how to think and behave. I guess evolution is moving like a snail when it comes to awareness.

Not progressed much in the past few thousand years??????? From what I can see we are getting worse by the decade, mostly attributable to greed.

 

[MHz]

To understand God, you must first understand your own mind—which is very difficult. The mind is very complex, and to understand it is not easy. But it is easy enough to sit down and go into some kind of dream, have various visions, illusions, and then think that you are very near to God. The mind can deceive itself enormously. So, to really experience that which may be called God, you must be completely quiet—and have you not found out how extremely difficult that is? Have you not noticed how even the older people never sit quietly, how they fidget, how they wiggle their toes and move their hands? It is difficult physically to sit still, and how much more difficult it is for the mind to be still! You may follow some guru and force your mind to be quiet; but your mind is not really quiet. It is still restless, like a child that is made to stand in the corner. It is a great art for the mind to be completely silent without coercion, and only then is there a possibility to approach that which may be called God.

In keeping with the theme of the sentences answering the 2nd post will make the response to the 1st one much clearer.
Old people have shaky extremedies because those muscles have become the weakest. If an elderly person has twitchy fingers and they gently clasp their hands together the tremors stop rather than moving to the hands or arms.

"But it is easy enough to sit down and go into some kind of dream, have various visions, illusions, and then think that you are very near to God."
Many people try that every day, how many come back with anything interesting to say?
Obviously those who empty their minds should not be communicating with anything. I can certainly see where being able to ditch our current thoughts would be helpful in today's society. Say you have a big argument with a co-worker at the end of the day and you leave work feeling angry. If you can ditch that anger by the time you get to your vehicle both it and other drivers might be treated slightly different (for the better) on your drive home. In that short walk to the vehicle there is no time to 'empty your mind of everything', what there is for time will allow you to start taking yourself in that direction. Taking the better part of an hour at some other time is how ditching all thoughts (that cause inner emotions) is taught around where I am. In that time you try to consciously relax your mind while by telling your body to relax certain groups of muscles. The progress is subtle and it consists of getting the thoughts that are not about relaxing the muscles down to a lower and lower number. That is transferred to real-time by (in the example) all thoughts of your work cease when the door to that place closes behind you. By the time you get to the car that anger gone and it is replaced by the emotions you had when you got out of the car in the morning. When you get home the 'new emotions' you had while driving in the vehicle stay with the car and when you go into the house. The emotions you had when you left return just where you left off that morning. That is something the human mind can accomplish in having power over itself. In all of the above it is not even remotely close to how God operates. When God wants to talk to you it happens instantly as in the Saul/Paul conversion. The Bible states certain things about when God comes calling so there is no mistaking it for some other thing that might claim to be the way to communicate with Him and only Him. It apparently happens when He wants it to happen so you could try your whole life and end up with zip when it comes to the number of events that is similar the Saul/Paul event.
A single person was affected and those close-by (his friends) noticed only that Saul was in a trance (I assume that means ignoring them even though they were speaking to the). That it happens in the twinkling of an eye is another fact God gives us, it first brings fear, we are the humble ones, a person is the child and God is the 'grown-up'. You will hear a voice (after being shown who you are with) but not see the faces that are doing the speaking. When John was taken to Heaven the only word spoken to Him was "Look." and then a number of visions followed, so no long detailed speeches)

Then of course the biggest difference is if you don't start with the Lord's Prayer (probably doesn't even have to be an exact replica of the one given in the Bible, acknowledge that your following words are meant for Him and ask for forgiveness from Him and from you to those who have sinned against you. I'm pretty sure if you miss this step the only thing it accomplishes is that the rest of your words mean nothing to Him.

Being able to leave emotions on hold might not be an art form but it certainly help a person in their daily lives. In the given situation getting into an argument moments before you head home might be enough to stop some people from speaking up about something that will cause an argument. Some people who leave work angry also arrive home angry (or vice-versa). That may result not being able to return to the way you felt when you left in the morning. Emotionally when you see you wife and kids each emotion should be there the very same as when you last saw them (assuming no conversation during the day involved them)

If your method is trying to communicate with God then how would the visions Enoch describes fit in with a blank mind? The visions given in Enoch are anything but empty space (hopefully somebody will come out with the video). If he was with God for 300/365 years I assume all that time was just as he wrote, full of scenery, angels, voices, and God's official places for official events.

 

[lone wolf]

Perhaps J. Krishnamurti could explain it better

 

[MHz]

At the present time, when there is greater and greater insecurity outwardly, there is obviously a yearning for inward security. Since we cannot find security outside, we seek it in an idea, in thought, and so we create that which we call God, and that concept becomes our security. Now, a mind that seeks security surely cannot find the real, the true. To understand that which is beyond time, the fabrications of thought must come to an end. Thought cannot exist without words, symbols, images, and only when the mind is quiet, free of its own creations, is there a possibility of finding out what is real. So merely to ask if there is or is not God is an immature response to the problem, is it not? And to formulate opinions about God is really childish.
Your point of view

Security in what respect, many people take extreme steps to be secure from death, for all that effort it still catches them. The concept of God is that death can and will be reversed at some point. The Bible doesn't offer any security that goes beyond that, other than the ones alive will remain alive when it comes time to bring the ones in death out of death.
Hopefully my other post deals with the points about meditation which seems to almost be a paradox. I can see where training your mind to focus on one thing (letting all other thoughts be pushed aside for a moment) would be helpful. I've also heard that if you do something similar to what you describe while you are in conflict about something and you empty your mind and then allow that troubled thought in, what comes to mind first is what solution you will be most comfortable with in the long-run. Causing somebody physical harm is not on the option list BTW.
It is our opinions about God that are childish, having an opinion, on anything, is anything but childish.

 

[countryboy]

To understand God, you must first understand your own mind—which is very difficult. The mind is very complex, and to understand it is not easy. But it is easy enough to sit down and go into some kind of dream, have various visions, illusions, and then think that you are very near to God. The mind can deceive itself enormously. So, to really experience that which may be called God, you must be completely quiet—and have you not found out how extremely difficult that is? Have you not noticed how even the older people never sit quietly, how they fidget, how they wiggle their toes and move their hands? It is difficult physically to sit still, and how much more difficult it is for the mind to be still! You may follow some guru and force your mind to be quiet; but your mind is not really quiet. It is still restless, like a child that is made to stand in the corner. It is a great art for the mind to be completely silent without coercion, and only then is there a possibility to approach that which may be called God.

OK, I think understand the "quiet mind" issue. Many ways to settle one's own mind have been practised for many years, some not well-known in many industrialized nations like Canada. One simple one is meditation. More specifically, transcendental meditiation.

I believe the basic premise there is to teach your mind to relax and transend (rise) above all the distractions or thoughts that clog up the mind on a daily basis. In doing this, one's "inner self" (etheral self) becomes more "in tune" with the universe. There are some positive benefits to the physical body - I know of a few cases where blood pressure was brought under control through this practise, and some phobic problems, such as fear of flying.

Another one that comes to mind is Reiki - which is really just allowing the energy that naturally exists in the universe to flow into the body, thus causing a healing effect. It's another one that isn't well-known in Canada, but I have heard that it is catching on. I think there are even some hospitals now that allow (encourage?) Reiki practitioners to do their thing if the patient so desires. There is even a sizeable group of practitioners called the Canadian Reiki Association.

Lastly, I am a somewhat familiar with the concept of a person having 3 bodies - the physical, the etheral (inner self - we might call it "the mind"), and the spiritual. If they're not all tuned up and working together, bad things can happen - like mental stress, physical illness, conficts with others, and a bunch of other bad things.

Some of these thngs might be worth looking at, especially these days. With all the gobs of instant information flying around these days, it would appear that people are becoming more "stressed out." The (legal) drug biz is doing quite well, with a pill for everything from bi-polar problems to erectile dysfunction. Of course, none of these are a cure..they're just trying to manage or mask symptoms. Fixing the root cause is the key to making any problem go away, and we don't seem to have pills to do that. Which is why it might be worth keeping an open mind on possible alternatives.

I've never heard of "God" entering the equation, but there is much I don't know about these concepts. I find them fascinating. They may appear a bit unusual, but hey, if anything can make people feel better, act better, and lead a better life, it's worth a look.

 

[countryboy]

Security in what respect, many people take extreme steps to be secure from death, for all that effort it still catches them. The concept of God is that death can and will be reversed at some point. The Bible doesn't offer any security that goes beyond that, other than the ones alive will remain alive when it comes time to bring the ones in death out of death.
Hopefully my other post deals with the points about meditation which seems to almost be a paradox. I can see where training your mind to focus on one thing (letting all other thoughts be pushed aside for a moment) would be helpful. I've also heard that if you do something similar to what you describe while you are in conflict about something and you empty your mind and then allow that troubled thought in, what comes to mind first is what solution you will be most comfortable with in the long-run. Causing somebody physical harm is not on the option list BTW.
It is our opinions about God that are childish, having an opinion, on anything, is anything but childish.

Yes, I wondered about the use of the word "childish" there too. An unusual way to use as it might be considered a bit negative by some. I think "unaware" might have been a better choice, but hey, everyone says things a bit differently.

I certainly agree with you on your point about meditation. People refer to it in different ways - "chill out" is perhaps a good example. I think that means "relax", which is often easier said than done. But, if a person can find an effective way to do just that, and get rid of those pesky everyday thoughts, they likely would feel and act a lot better.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Not progressed much in the past few thousand years??????? From what I can see we are getting worse by the decade, mostly attributable to greed.

We have really not progressed much in the past several thousand years. People are still practicing thousand of years old religions (Judaism, Hinduism etc.) today. Some of the later religions, such as Christianity or Islam are worse, if anything.

So on theological affront there has been no progress. As far as science, technology, good health, human rights, well there has been a sea change (as we saw in the other thread, how much better things are today compared to 50 years ago).

 

[MHz]

"As far as science, technology, good health, human rights, well there has been a sea change (as we saw in the other thread, how much better things are today compared to 50 years ago). "
Climategate, new unbeatable diseases (let alone the 'old ones', Gaza, the West Bank Afghanistan and Iraq, just those few words show all your claims are bogus.

 

[countryboy]

We have really not progressed much in the past several thousand years. People are still practicing thousand of years old religions (Judaism, Hinduism etc.) today. Some of the later religions, such as Christianity or Islam are worse, if anything.

So on theological affront there has been no progress. As far as science, technology, good health, human rights, well there has been a sea change (as we saw in the other thread, how much better things are today compared to 50 years ago).

"Progress" is necessary to improve things that are flawed or imperfect. It's a bit like admitting you don't know much, so you have to keep seeking the "right" or correct answers.

Some things, like a good bottle of wine, get better with age , if left undisturbed. Fiddling with them just screws up what is already OK - If you uncork the bottle prematurely, the wine can turn bad.