War #6 Somolia

[petros]

It probably smells like rotten kelp. I'd go with Papaya Fusion.

Now that I have you attention perhaps you should read up or ask around a little on what my stance on war is before you slip on the handle and go flying off the ****ing piss pot again.

Tell me what the real reason we are at war if you think I don't know. Educate me if you can.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: War #6 Somalia

I can't tell you the REAL reason the wars are happening, any more than YOU can. The only ones that REALLY know why the wars exist and keep expanding are the politicians that started them. ( the politicians and the military complex)

what we are told are a mix of fabricated excuses on the back of an event in the US that has turned out to be a gift that just keeps giving. That alone makes the official explanation for the terror crime highly suspect. Conspiracy theories not withstanding.... , and given the lies that the neocons spun.... one is a tad foolish to believe just about anything that govt says. It is sad....but there has been no real credibility there in at least a decade.

Without 9-11.......there is NO WAY bush inc would have gotten away with either war......particularly Iraq ......which had NOTHING to do with 9-11. He wanted to invade Iraq since before he took office. That much is documented.

The wars have taken on a territorial mosaic in an area of the planet that the US wants to establish itself permanently.. The rate with which their military bases are being constructed along with the largest embassy's to date.......shows where the priorities lie . They are not with rebuilding the nation they destroyed so the the people can have as normal a life as soon as possible.

The real reason is probably about US expansion, territorial and resources control. the question that remains is how long will they be able to afford it.

Even if some of the troops actually leave the war zones......they will go somewhere else, but a definitive US presence will remain in the occupation. But it won't be called that.

in the final analysis two wrongs don't make a right. Terrorism as a policy is wrong. WAR as a policy is wrong. Lies are always wrong. but have become the norm of politics. Torture is always wrong. regardless of what they call it or who does it. War as a first option is wrong. as usually there are other motives behind it.

 

[ironsides]

The U.N. is currently involved with about 17 so called peace keeping missions. Which of course means that the United States is a major contributor either with forces or supplies. Why don't the other developed countries contribute their fare share,

United Nations Peacekeeping

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: War #6 Somalia

The real reason is probably about US expansion, territorial and resources control. the question that remains is how long will they be able to afford it.

.

So that must be why Canada is leading the charge against Libya, they want to make it a new province. That also must be the reason of Canada being known as the Father of Peacekeeping. The real reasons are the expansion of Canada's borders. Good grief.



You are clearly the most hypocritical one in here I'd say.

 

[ironsides]

Re: War #6 Somalia

I can't tell you the REAL reason the wars are happening, any more than YOU can. The only ones that REALLY know why the wars exist and keep expanding are the politicians that started them. ( the politicians and the military complex)

what we are told are a mix of fabricated excuses on the back of an event in the US that has turned out to be a gift that just keeps giving. That alone makes the official explanation for the terror crime highly suspect. Conspiracy theories not withstanding.... , and given the lies that the neocons spun.... one is a tad foolish to believe just about anything that govt says. It is sad....but there has been no real credibility there in at least a decade.

Without 9-11.......there is NO WAY bush inc would have gotten away with either war......particularly Iraq ......which had NOTHING to do with 9-11. He wanted to invade Iraq since before he took office. That much is documented.

The wars have taken on a territorial mosaic in an area of the planet that the US wants to establish itself permanently.. The rate with which their military bases are being constructed along with the largest embassy's to date.......shows where the priorities lie . They are not with rebuilding the nation they destroyed so the the people can have as normal a life as soon as possible.

The real reason is probably about US expansion, territorial and resources control. the question that remains is how long will they be able to afford it.

Even if some of the troops actually leave the war zones......they will go somewhere else, but a definitive US presence will remain in the occupation. But it won't be called that.

in the final analysis two wrongs don't make a right. Terrorism as a policy is wrong. WAR as a policy is wrong. Lies are always wrong. but have become the norm of politics. Torture is always wrong. regardless of what they call it or who does it. War as a first option is wrong. as usually there are other motives behind it.

Why was it so imperative that G.W. had to invade Iraq, what was him most pressing argument to do so if he knew there were no WMD's there? This just a question who blame Bush for everything including the Sun going down at night. You mentioned U.S. expansion, territorial and resource control, question should ask or show where the U.S. is expanding territorial and resource control outside any U.N. mandate? The U.S. goes in, ends a problem then leaves and Europe has a steady supply of whatever was interrupted.

Today, war is a reaction to Terrorism.

 

[petros]

Re: War #6 Somalia

I can't tell you the REAL reason the wars are happening, any more than YOU can. The only ones that REALLY know why the wars exist and keep expanding are the politicians that started them. ( the politicians and the military complex)

what we are told are a mix of fabricated excuses on the back of an event in the US that has turned out to be a gift that just keeps giving. That alone makes the official explanation for the terror crime highly suspect. Conspiracy theories not withstanding.... , and given the lies that the neocons spun.... one is a tad foolish to believe just about anything that govt says. It is sad....but there has been no real credibility there in at least a decade.

Without 9-11.......there is NO WAY bush inc would have gotten away with either war......particularly Iraq ......which had NOTHING to do with 9-11. He wanted to invade Iraq since before he took office. That much is documented.

The wars have taken on a territorial mosaic in an area of the planet that the US wants to establish itself permanently.. The rate with which their military bases are being constructed along with the largest embassy's to date.......shows where the priorities lie . They are not with rebuilding the nation they destroyed so the the people can have as normal a life as soon as possible.

The real reason is probably about US expansion, territorial and resources control. the question that remains is how long will they be able to afford it.

Even if some of the troops actually leave the war zones......they will go somewhere else, but a definitive US presence will remain in the occupation. But it won't be called that.

in the final analysis two wrongs don't make a right. Terrorism as a policy is wrong. WAR as a policy is wrong. Lies are always wrong. but have become the norm of politics. Torture is always wrong. regardless of what they call it or who does it. War as a first option is wrong. as usually there are other motives behind it.

You're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. You're still on the 9-11 hang up and US (which is us) resource grabbing. When you get over that bump give a me shout.

When you look at a relief map of the Himalayas what do you see? Fat women. A donkey? A dragon? Or a region that will supply 3 billion with drinking water and hyrdo but is currently held by Asian hand grenade hillbillies?

 

[ironsides]

Now that is a new term. :lol: But so true.

 

[petros]

Asian hand grenade hillbillies?

 

[ironsides]

Asian hand grenade hillbillies?

Yup, Asian hand grenade hillbillies

 

[petros]

It's a gooder!

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: War #6 Somalia

You're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. You're still on the 9-11 hang up and US (which is us) resource grabbing. When you get over that bump give a me shout.

When you look at a relief map of the Himalayas what do you see? Fat women. A donkey? A dragon? Or a region that will supply 3 billion with drinking water and hyrdo but is currently held by Asian hand grenade hillbillies?

Would any of the wars (particularly Afghanistan and Iraq ) been started without the "cover" ....excuse of "terrorism" (-9-11 )and the BIG LIE about WMD??? What "justification " would they have come up with for the massive invasion plans they had been planning for some time.??
..well, the answer to that is probably another BIG piece of FICTION. The WMD crap was an embarrassment from the start as the inspectors were not finding anything. But bush was in a hurry to invade , terminated the inspections , and off his merry little warriors went off bombing ,killing in a nation that DOES HAVE STOCKPILES OF NATURAL RESOURCES. & a leader that georgie boy wanted lynched for some time due to personal feelings. ( forget the fact that the same leader was a US friend as long as he played along with the US. But like most , the minute he wanted to make an independant decision that would affect the US contingency in a way it did not want...... he became the enemy. )

.........that is just one example of how the US treats its friends. It is a turncoat of lethal proportions.

How anyone can accept these manipulations ,lies and "justifications that changed almost on a daily basis as tolerable , "foreign policy??? All nations and leaders lie. But not many of them lie so brazenly, and use those lies to slaughter thousands of innocent people who suddenly become enemies of the US.

That is the most corrupt mentality .........and we are getting the blow back now. Starting with the financial crisis that is still reverberating around the world. That does not cover the loss of respect and credibility;y that the US has experienced. Not that they give a damn. All this is doing is making more people angry and angry people gradually want revenge. Just like the US wanted nothing but bloody revenge for 9-11.....not justice. And that is exactly what has unfolded. But the politicians make sure there is benefit to such "revenge".

If any of the nations invaded actually benefit from all this , it will be secondary , but it will be used to glorify the US as if it was the savior of the century. Tell that to all the dead . Mind you once you buy into the war mentality .....one can just about "explain and justify anything and make it APPEAR almost positive. It is unfortunate that peaceful solutions usually take so much longer as the warmonger instant gratification crowd does not have the patience or maturity for it. Of course when a culture glamorizes war , the way the US does, it is little wonder that WAR is the FIRST option with hardly a thought .....

Somalia will be part of the aggressive intervention .....sooner or later. It is forgotten that folks of a region usually can work out their own problems and hostilities if they are left to them. The killing they do of each other is not an excuse to go in and kill by an interfering country.

sure, this is a tad verbal. But how does one discuss such a complex dynamic without addressing contributing factors.??

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: War #6 Somalia

, and off his merry little warriors went off bombing ,killing in a nation that DOES HAVE STOCKPILES OF NATURAL RESOURCES.

Is that why you think Canada is in Libya?

 

[petros]

Would any of the wars (particularly Afghanistan and Iraq ) been started
without the "cover" ....excuse of "terrorism" (-9-11 )and the BIG LIE about
WMD??? What "justification " would they have come up with for the massive
invasion plans they had been planning for some time.??

Well dear, 19 years ago I worked for what to the outsider appeared to a up an coming oil exploration company. In the geo offices we had a world map with all the places the big bad giant who lived up a beanstalk decide it wanted to hurl golden eggs at. Libya, Sudan and Morrocco all main targets.

1 and half for them. They'll have the other half shortly.


17 years ago I began with another company. Do you know what was on their world map? Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan.

Well 3 out of 5 for them so far.

Whether we do it, Russia does it, China does it those parts of the world are going to be industrialized and modernized whether they damn well like it or not.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Well dear, 19years ago I worked for what to the outsider appeared to a up an coming oil exploration company. In the geo offices we had a world map with all the places the big bad giant who lived up a beanstalk decide it wanted to hurl golden eggs at. Libya, Sudan and Morrocco all main targets.

1 and half for them. They'll have the other half shortly.


17 years ago I began with another company. Do you know what was on their world map? Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan.

Well 3 out of 5 for them so far.

Whether we do it Russia does it China does it those parts of the world is going to be industrialized and modernized whether they damn well like it or not.

Well........you are probably right. It might be a lot more constructive if they were to do it THEMSELVES. With the world be so interconnected now...... they are aware of what modern and progressive nations have . They will want the same. Look at the rebellions going on In Egypt for eg. There is a chain reaction of same. There is no reason that the nations you want to modernize from the OUTSIDE and under FORCE.... will not be able to do this themselves at their own pace and within their cultures which should be preserved as they see fit.

There is a massive change going on in sections of the world. This change is contageous.

If one forces change with aggression , one takes away their humanity, their pride and achievement of doing it themselves and THAT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.

Again.......the motives behind these agressions are not as noble as you would believe. They are selfish and self oriented. And that makes a mockery of their excuses for invading in the first place.

Forcing things before the "readiness factor " is there is going to be met with resistance, rage and the petri dish environment for even more hatred and terrorism. ( which seems to work well for the US as that is the cycle it is perpetuating.)

 

[petros]

It takes money and technology these people don't have. Some are literally hillbillies and don't want anybody around even if they are Afghani. They are too busy doing stupid **** to connect the nation together to actually benefit from opening up to investment and modernization.

Who else on the planet has the balls to go in there and bring these people out of the iron age?

In 20 years when there are highspeed rail links from Kabul through the Bi- National Park of Khyber Pass and on it downtown Peshawar, I'll be the first guy on it with a first class ticket.

Even within our own borders there are groups of people armed to the tits and live away from the rest of us who don't want developement either.

Ours can read and write, have valuable skills and have money.

Who is more dangerous to you personally?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

There is validity to your ideas. But ... for one thing.....it is critical to get out of the "who is the bigger threat" and the "threat" mentality.
.....as then decisions are made out of fear. ( counterproductive)

Yes, they are impoverished. and have a truckload of problems. It might be wiser to have groups of professionals go into segments and assist in their health care as starters. , along with teachers and gradually assist them in setting up even the most basic education systems. . GRADUALLY....... as inroads are being made......better over all services can be addressed in a similar format.

Don't think sending money is a good idea. There is no guarantee where that money will go . as the corruption is extreme.

Some of these things need to be started. The process is slow but lasting and would take hold as the people would soon feel better about themselves and gradually lose the thirst for killing . It would be very challenging. but the world has met many grave challenges before.

Yes, it would take money. So just take some of the megabucks they allow for wars , the military and see how it can be used in a more humanitarian way.

If the US is prepared unseemly amounts on the invasions...... they can adjust the budget to allow more for this kind of effort.

WAR is NOT the only action that can be taken. and it should be the very last resort and only inresponse to a genuine provable threat. Pre-emptive invasions are nothing but political maneuvering to allow themselves to attack who they want when they want with hardly any explanation or reason. (which is usually political)

 

[petros]

They have no idea of what a National Government means and no you can't go to each tribe in a whack of Provinces and try to dabble here and dabble there.

We tried that for 7.5 years that cost Canada 157 lives as well as the rest of NATO.

The Brits took a royal pounding in Helmand until the US came in with some smarter generals from the Iraqi theatre and Obama opened up a can of whoop ass to clear thing up.

We tried the hugs and rainbows at first but the Taliban just kept on growing and growing. They were given opportunities repeatedly but that has all failed so now we have to blow the **** out of the Taliban and take these malnutritioned basically feral people living on chick peas and goat milk if they are lucky, educate them and literally civilize them but they aren't about to trade their future for a shiny buttons and flower gardens.

They are only one generation away from living in peace with full bellies and paying jobs in a brand new country probably ahead of our own in many ways.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

...... Well, I try.

:smile:;-)

 

[gopher]

all terrorism is a crime,

The Contras were a self admitted terrorist group and Reagan openly called himself a member of that group.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The Contras were a self admitted terrorist group and Reagan openly called himself a member of that group.

there ya go. Whatever is politically expedient and of course that age old hypocrisy.


By the way re: title. Should it not read Somalia???