US on Canada torture watch list

[CDNBear]

Ya know Bear....the more I read your writing, even though we are diametrically opposed when it comes to war and those that wage it, the more I find myself liking you.

That's just cuz I quoted ya...a line I have come to love btw.

And I am truly sincere, I not only admire your strength and conviction, I would die so you could live long and spread it.

There would be no need for the primitive ideologies as the ones so ingrained into my psycy, if the world was as you are.

We are yin and yang, good and evil.

Don't think for a minute, I do not understand and see what it is you despise in me. I don't love it, but it is what I am. I see a necessity for it and so long as the world is filled with people that would do you harm for you thoughts, I will live comfortable in the knowledge, I'm not alone.

And thanx Gh, you're a pretty decent guy yourself.

 

[MikeyDB]

CdnBear

Did or didn't Maher Arar get taken off a plane in New York and sent to Syria?

Did or didn't CSIS or the RCMP feed information to the Americans that allowed them to kidnap a Canadian off a plane and send him off to be tortured?

Facts Bear

 

[darkbeaver]

Ya can't tell that animal nothin Mickey. Your're wasteing your time he's completely insane, got Islamistitus and Uncle Sam probiscus, terrible afflictions, no cure you know tsk a tsk tsk, oh well.

 

[MikeyDB]

It seems abundantly clear that many folk here at CC have no problem with America using torture and kidnapping, I hope they feel the same when those actions are taken against Canadians (other than Maher Arar and the youngster in Gitmo) Perhaps we should adopt and extend the notion to Mohawk warriors that smuggled guns across the lake to "support" their Canadian brothers in terrorist activities. Perhaps we shouldn't bother with courts and a system of law at all...we could suspend our system of law in favor of outright racism and hatred ...like the proposition to kill this kid in Guantanamo....why bother with a hearing and evidence if all it takes is some American telling you he's guilty then surely he is and he deserves to die. In fact he's probably responsible for all those WMDs in Iraq and secret CIA prisons all over the world. Sure let's surrender to the axe and the club and completely resign ourselves to barbarism. There's lots of support for that thinking right here.

 

[normbc9]

I am frankly surprised it took Canada this long to declare trhe US on it's list of nations that practice torture. This practice has existed since WW II with the famous Chambers located on US soil at Byron, CA., Fort Hood and next to Camp Kilmer, NJ. All have been written about in some form or another. The Guantanamo location and many unknown to most of us located around the globe with the US using contract help to do the dirty work. There are two island locations I have heard rumors about and both sound pretty gruesome to me. The myth of the US standing for freedom, justice and liberty should be know world wide now. The continued deceit practiced by the White House is another example of how the US is being sold out a piece at a time from within. Anytime I see Bush, Cheney, Rice or other minions about to speak on the media I get out my earplugs that say BS Protectors on them and put them on immediately. One way to tell if a US politician is lying is to watch their lips. Anytime those lips are moving they are lying.

 

[dancing-loon]

Good Evening, Mikey and Beaver!

You are the two towering cedars of this forum - strong, enduring, calm and kind! I like to sit underneath your low branches at times to listen and laugh. I very much appreciate your comments and support.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Have been cruising the web. :roll: :-( That Rolling Stone site from yesterday which got me a lot of flak, actually seems to be from the Rolling Stones...Mic Jagger and company. I wasn't aware of that yesterday. That group is of international fame, they sure travel the world and hear and see a lot. It would be foolish to publish something that is untrue. Take that to mind, CDNBear!
Did you actually not get my softly sarcastic "journalism" yesterday?? I carried you the whole time like a little boy on my arm!:smile:

Here is a Wikipedia site especially for you, Bear, but anybody could benefit from reading it. One can unhesitatingly conclude that the Iraqis and the Afghanis are sub-humans in the eyes of the Americans!! I do not understand their hatred and complete disrespect for human dignity!! To realize, we have a Canadian bear just like those ***** amongst us, gives me the shivers!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

a sample: "In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning."

I thought after WW2 we had left the Dark Age and entered into a new millennium of enlightenment, peace and good will among nations. Did I get off at the wrong Planet?

I wish you all a very good night;
loon

 

[dancing-loon]

I am frankly surprised it took Canada this long to declare trhe US on it's list of nations that practice torture. This practice has existed since WW II with the famous Chambers located on US soil at Byron, CA., Fort Hood and next to Camp Kilmer, NJ. All have been written about in some form or another. The Guantanamo location and many unknown to most of us located around the globe with the US using contract help to do the dirty work. There are two island locations I have heard rumors about and both sound pretty gruesome to me. The myth of the US standing for freedom, justice and liberty should be know world wide now. The continued deceit practiced by the White House is another example of how the US is being sold out a piece at a time from within. Anytime I see Bush, Cheney, Rice or other minions about to speak on the media I get out my earplugs that say BS Protectors on them and put them on immediately. One way to tell if a US politician is lying is to watch their lips. Anytime those lips are moving they are lying.

Hello, Norm in BC.
How's the weather there?
How nice... we are on the same wave length!:smile: I'm still relatively new here and don't know much.
While on the net I found another site which fits perfectly with your post. Here, have a look...
http://rwor.org/a/1241/ustorture.htm

BUT... there are others who are apparently also good at the torture business....Mossad, and the Russians, too. Mossad I read, got hold of the Gestapo handbook and "fine-tuned" it.
One can see, it is an old custom. The Romans threw the Christians to the hungry lions and then watched in amusement.

 

[CDNBear]

CdnBear

Did or didn't Maher Arar get taken off a plane in New York and sent to Syria?

Did or didn't CSIS or the RCMP feed information to the Americans that allowed them to kidnap a Canadian off a plane and send him off to be tortured?

Facts Bear

How about sticking to the topic YOU raised...

Duly elected government CdnBear? You'd have difficulty convincing many Americans that George W. Bush was the duly elected president of KidnapTortureville....

Neither of us was talking about Arar, until of course you couldn't prove your statement. Then as per the norm...poof, off you go on something else. I'm just glad you didn't claim I use lil Palestinian kids as wheel stops this time.

It seems abundantly clear that many folk here at CC have no problem with America using torture and kidnapping, I hope they feel the same when those actions are taken against Canadians (other than Maher Arar and the youngster in Gitmo) Perhaps we should adopt and extend the notion to Mohawk warriors that smuggled guns across the lake to "support" their Canadian brothers in terrorist activities. Perhaps we shouldn't bother with courts and a system of law at all...we could suspend our system of law in favor of outright racism and hatred ...like the proposition to kill this kid in Guantanamo....why bother with a hearing and evidence if all it takes is some American telling you he's guilty then surely he is and he deserves to die. In fact he's probably responsible for all those WMDs in Iraq and secret CIA prisons all over the world. Sure let's surrender to the axe and the club and completely resign ourselves to barbarism. There's lots of support for that thinking right here.

Why do you people want to put civilian laws and emotions in the feild of combat?

Do you not understand the diffence between the streets of Canada and the dust of a battle zone?

Good Evening, Mikey and Beaver!

You are the two towering cedars of this forum - strong, enduring, calm and kind! I like to sit underneath your low branches at times to listen and laugh. I very much appreciate your comments and support.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Of course you love their words, they use no facts to support their claims, just emotional bleating and opinion based on emotion.

Have been cruising the web. :roll: :-( That Rolling Stone site from yesterday which got me a lot of flak, actually seems to be from the Rolling Stones...Mic Jagger and company. I wasn't aware of that yesterday. That group is of international fame, they sure travel the world and hear and see a lot. It would be foolish to publish something that is untrue. Take that to mind, CDNBear!

There is a monumental difference Op/Ed pieces and real news, truth is one thing, spinning the truth is another. That is something you need to learn. Perhaps you should upgrade to the Enquirer or the Weekly News for a better grasp of reality.

Real news contains no inflective or emotional charging wordage. It contains facts free of any emotion. That is true journalism, some of a rare commodity these days. Which is refected in all uninformed individuals skirting the net as if they are modern day 'Plato's'.

Did you actually not get my softly sarcastic "journalism" yesterday?? I carried you the whole time like a little boy on my arm!:smile:

You could carry a thought if I taped a bucket of them to your head.

Here is a Wikipedia site especially for you, Bear, but anybody could benefit from reading it. One can unhesitatingly conclude that the Iraqis and the Afghanis are sub-humans in the eyes of the Americans!! I do not understand their hatred and complete disrespect for human dignity!! To realize, we have a Canadian bear just like those ***** amongst us, gives me the shivers!!

First off, shiver all you want. Because of people like me, you are free to feel and speak as you do. So carry on and you're welcome.

Secondly, I have no idea howmany times I've punch more holes in wiki material then Carter has liver spots.

a)Wikipedia is a member driven encyclopedia. Anyone with an agenda can manipulate a page with malicious and erronious intent.
b)The page you used has no less the 38 supporting links, only 5 of which are external, none of which have support documentation to the source of the material. Furthermore, the internal links are also member edited and therefore open to abuse and up for serious scrutiny.
c)There were 15 criminals involved in the event highlighted in that page and they were charge. Seems like the UCMJ is working well there.

Here, try this sight for wiki data...

http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=Wikitruth:Introduction

Or even better...

http://www.wikiality.com/Main_Page

It fits your journalistic requirements to a 't'.

a sample: "In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning."

Your point?

Someone is doing something ugly, so you don't have and even more importantly, so you can sleep tight and be free in the am.

I thought after WW2 we had left the Dark Age and entered into a new millennium of enlightenment, peace and good will among nations. Did I get off at the wrong Planet?

This would be true, if the people who heard the horrific stories retold by the survivors, didn't take what they were told and turn it into a campaign of coddling and learned what was the true intent.

Stop the horror, before it gets big enough to engulf the globe.

If we were to use ugly, sellective, isolated, surgical tactical strikes to quash what would ferment into a viral contagen, the spread of hatred would cease and the necessity for people like me would end.

 

[normbc9]

Dancing Loon,
I'm in California and I'm not alone in my feelings either. There are many dissatisfied Americans and in my entire retirement community there are citizens from all walks of life, many professions and of various religious beliefs. What we share in common is our community and our dislike of the current US adminitration and any one or any thing associated with it. Don't think for a moment that the Blackwater operation is a private business venture either. I know two people who were recruited and left during the training phases due to their sensing strongly the involvement of the CIA and the US weapons support as well. If it doesn't pass the smell test, back away and get out. It is my guess that the US has made its run in the world leadership and now we'll see another economic dynasty probably from the Asian areas. I still fear the possibiltiy of the NAU happening. It isn't for the welfare of all three nations. It is a last desperate action by US interests to dominate and Canada and Mexico had better wake up to this fact.

 

[zoofer]

It is torture just to scan over the whining of some of these Left Wing Pinko Commie Appeaser Saddamites.:roll:

 

[lone wolf]

It is torture just to scan over the whining of some of these Left Wing Pinko Commie Appeaser Saddamites.:roll:

Archie Bunker lives and breathes!


Woof!

 

[darkbeaver]

Dancing Loon,
I'm in California and I'm not alone in my feelings either. There are many dissatisfied Americans and in my entire retirement community there are citizens from all walks of life, many professions and of various religious beliefs. What we share in common is our community and our dislike of the current US adminitration and any one or any thing associated with it. Don't think for a moment that the Blackwater operation is a private business venture either. I know two people who were recruited and left during the training phases due to their sensing strongly the involvement of the CIA and the US weapons support as well. If it doesn't pass the smell test, back away and get out. It is my guess that the US has made its run in the world leadership and now we'll see another economic dynasty probably from the Asian areas. I still fear the possibiltiy of the NAU happening. It isn't for the welfare of all three nations. It is a last desperate action by US interests to dominate and Canada and Mexico had better wake up to this fact.

I agree with your assessment of reality normbc. What is the realistic chances of avoiding what you and I see as the dismal near future? That last act of desperation will in my opinion kill millions more people, I also don't see it as an exclusivly American undertaking but rather a very old and rotten Anglo-American exercise backed by the elements of the BIS (Bank of International Settlements) in who's control are the purse strings of the planet. These banking scum have for over three-hundred years remained above and beyond the rule of common law, and are in reality the defacto rulers of the world. There is no major conflict that they will or have not backed both sides in. They own the food, medicine, media, banking and lending institutions in fact virtually every asset in the western world through a miasmic maze of holding companys to the tune of one-hundred and seventy-five trillion dollars.There is no crime they will not or have not committed and there is no toll of death to high that they will not spend to protect thier monopoly on wealth and power.http://www.augustreview.com/

 

[normbc9]

Dark Beaver,
Don't think for a moment that the world wide banking magnets haven't been involved from the on-set with many world finacial difficulties which I believe are carefully staged by their groups at some clandestine meetings. Look how fast the US Mortgage crisis developed after the passing of the senior de Rothschilde family member. As soon as he went someone else took over and pulled the plug withdrawing their funds from the world money market for mortgages. The Credit Card scams, 0 Down new car financing and the like is all preprogrammed for failure. The emphasis placed on money in the US today is so out of porportion with the things that are really valuable (friends, family, better community development) and now we see greed at all levels. But the under cover US international involvement is now alarming even the most astute citizens here. The US is NOT the world policeman and what happens on other sovereign soils is the business of those who live there and are responsible to oversee its operation is not any of our business. All Foreign Aid is in my mind is a form of Extortion money to allow the US to get their nose in the other nations business. They do need the money for development (it never gets there either) but rampant corruption takes control of the funds and caters to the US just enough to qualify for another handout nexr year. Those funds could be best used here at home to help alleviate the social problems we have which are now mounting to a level that they are being noticed by most Americans who are now thoroughly disgusted with the current state of affairs in this once great nation.

 

[earth_as_one]

How about Amnesty International USA? Is a nobel peace prize winning human rights organization reliable enough source to back up claims that the US has an internaional network of torture chambers?

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Below the radar: Secret flights to torture and 'disappearance'
SUMMARY​

Sending prisoners overseas to extract information through water torture, removal of toenails and fingernails, beatings, and electrocution at the request of US officials is inhumane and must be stopped.
- US Congressman Edmund Markey, March 12, 2005​

Download the full report (PDF)​

In May 2005, three stunned and traumatized Yemeni men emerged from a covert network of US-run prisons scattered across continents. They had been transported from site to site on secret flights and detained since 2003 without any contact with the outside world. Amnesty International went to Yemen to interview them and the men's gruelling stories shed a glimmer of light on the murky system of captures, transfers and secret detention that has been developed by the USA in the "war on terror". ....

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20060404001

Or you can read their annual report:

...
UN Committee against Torture and UN Human Rights Committee

The Committee against Torture and the Human Rights Committee issued recommendations to the US authorities in May and July. They included calls for an end to secret detention and enforced disappearances and for the closure of Guantánamo. The Committee against Torture also called for cruel interrogation techniques to be rescinded, and for thorough and impartial investigations into torture and other ill-treatment, including the role of senior government officials....

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/United-States-of-America

Also from the AI report above:

...In general, governments do not violate human rights or international law openly and proudly. They do it in secret. They torture behind closed doors. They instigate programmes of repression in which opponents "disappear" in the night. They set up covert operations to break arms embargoes, overthrow hostile governments, illegally detain people deemed a threat to their security.
Without a transparent process, based on the international law and standards that bind all states, the programme of rendition and secret detention is eroding the very human security and rule of law it claims to protect. The USA has, in effect, created a law-free zone in which the human rights of certain individuals are erased. It is time the programme was stopped....


CB: Its not a question of whether the US practices and condones torture, but what Americans and others should do about it.

 

[darkbeaver]

Dark Beaver,
Don't think for a moment that the world wide banking magnets haven't been involved from the on-set with many world finacial difficulties which I believe are carefully staged by their groups at some clandestine meetings. Look how fast the US Mortgage crisis developed after the passing of the senior de Rothschilde family member. As soon as he went someone else took over and pulled the plug withdrawing their funds from the world money market for mortgages. The Credit Card scams, 0 Down new car financing and the like is all preprogrammed for failure. The emphasis placed on money in the US today is so out of porportion with the things that are really valuable (friends, family, better community development) and now we see greed at all levels. But the under cover US international involvement is now alarming even the most astute citizens here. The US is NOT the world policeman and what happens on other sovereign soils is the business of those who live there and are responsible to oversee its operation is not any of our business. All Foreign Aid is in my mind is a form of Extortion money to allow the US to get their nose in the other nations business. They do need the money for development (it never gets there either) but rampant corruption takes control of the funds and caters to the US just enough to qualify for another handout nexr year. Those funds could be best used here at home to help alleviate the social problems we have which are now mounting to a level that they are being noticed by most Americans who are now thoroughly disgusted with the current state of affairs in this once great nation.

So I've been of the opinion for about ten years that American Revolution 2 is in fact the only cure if not for the worlds problems then at least those associated with misuse of American power. In fact if America wants any peace and justice it will require massive internal change. I can't see any way for you to avoid a truely horrific and immenent future, it appears to me that as I have read the American economy is being driven into the ground on purpose. I was reading recently that the total debt is in the order of 37 trillion dollars, no government issued reporting can be trusted, in other words the books are very heavily cooked. Coupled with that you have one asset left and that is a fearsome military machine that is not remotely responsible to the people. There has not been a functioning democracy for as long as anyone can remember, America has the largest prison population on the planet, far outside any reason, crime, law, justice, police, prision all have become comodified. The entire capitalist monolith has been eating the national fabric for decades at an ever accellarateing rate that cannot be sustained, so the jig is up so to speak. I believe very nasty things are about to happen and they will affect every man women and child in the western world as we slide into overt fascism that will consume hundreds of millions if not billions. Americans are in a certain sense the most brutalized people on the planet psycologicly if not physicly. I just cannot see a peaceful solution.

 

[dancing-loon]

It seems abundantly clear that many folk here at CC have no problem with America using torture and kidnapping, I hope they feel the same when those actions are taken against Canadians (other than Maher Arar and the youngster in Gitmo) Perhaps we should adopt and extend the notion to Mohawk warriors that smuggled guns across the lake to "support" their Canadian brothers in terrorist activities. Perhaps we shouldn't bother with courts and a system of law at all...we could suspend our system of law in favor of outright racism and hatred ...like the proposition to kill this kid in Guantanamo....why bother with a hearing and evidence if all it takes is some American telling you he's guilty then surely he is and he deserves to die. In fact he's probably responsible for all those WMDs in Iraq and secret CIA prisons all over the world. Sure let's surrender to the axe and the club and completely resign ourselves to barbarism. There's lots of support for that thinking right here.

It's the mighty young ones, Mikey, they are full of oat straw!

 

[dancing-loon]

...CB: Its not a question of whether the US practices and condones torture, but what Americans and others should do about it.

Bear needs a little help when it comes to reading good journalistic work, right Bear?;-) I came across a nice objective newspaper, which suggest Mr. Bush should be tried for war crimes because of ordering torture on captured prisoners.

The Washington Post reported that “current and former officials” said the torture lasted weeks and even, according to some, months, and that the techniques included hypothermia, long periods of standing, sleep deprivation and multiple sessions of waterboarding. All these “alternative procedures”, as Bush described them, are illegal under US law and the Geneva conventions. They are, in fact, war crimes. And they were once all treated by the US as war crimes when they were perpetrated by the Nazis. Waterboarding has been found to be a form of torture in various American legal cases.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece

 

[data]

Mr. Bush should be tried for war crimes because of ordering torture on captured prisoners.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece

All US presidents honoured Richard Nixon at his grave. First they must admit, that he was a war criminal, who let bomb Cambodia and North Vietnam into the stone age, because his ground troops in South Vietnam refused already to obey his crazy orders any more (fraging).

The present president can get tried in The Hague court, no matter if US joins the court rules or not. Organizing torture will just be a minor of his crimes agains humanity. As once in Germany, a lot of people were joining his path.

 

[dancing-loon]

Hi, data;
interesting you mentioned Richard Nixon as a war criminal as well. Since I didn't know anything about that era, I looked on the web. Here is one impressive titel:
President Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and the Bombing of Cambodia
excerpted from the book:
Lying for Empire: How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face
by David Model

In 1969, President Richard Nixon and his National Security Advisor, Henry A. Kissinger, unleashed B-52 carpet bombing for over fourteen months against a people who still tilled the soil with water buffalo. The 3,500 bombing sorties resulted in 600,000 deaths. The American bombing of Cambodia was a closely guarded secret primarily because the U.S. was not at war with Cambodia.

Not only did Nixon and Kissinger not seek the necessary approval from Congress to bomb Cambodia, they tried to conceal the bombing not only from the American public but Congress as well. Nixon and Kissinger believed that these hideous lies were imperative to hold on to South Vietnam as part of the American Empire..

It further states:

Following the bombing, many peasants were so outraged at the United States and their puppet leader in Cambodia that they chose to join the Khmer Rouge, a marginal revolutionary communist group whose ranks swelled to a major force. After taking power, the Khmer Rouge unleashed a reign of terror killing over one million people.

The Khmer Rouge was therefore a direct result of the Nixon administration, just like the "Terrorists" are now again a creation of the reckless American Government, in particular the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld triangle.
Nixon wanted South Vietnam - Bush wants the Middle East! How simple it all is!

Thanks, data, you brought up a valuable point. It never hurts to know a bit of history.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/Nixon_Cambodia_LFE.html

 

[data]

US & Israel on Canada torture watch list

Thank you for the source. I put it on my link list.
But the Cambodia picture is not complete. When Pol Pot got trouble with his Chinese allies in Beijing about plans of enforcing a "big jump" in to communism, the CIA came to fuel him with large Dollar amounts, equalizing the value of naturalist support in weapons and rice deliveries, what he got from China. So he became the darling of the western world, who was about to demonstrate, how ugly communism is, what Vietnam is planning too and that the US agent orange and bomb carpets were just a minor evil. This souvereignty charade was kept up until 1990, the fall of the iron curtain. Without CIA support, Pol Pot could never have executed his culture revolution (genocide) against the will of his chinese allies.

Canada feels embarrassed for saying some truth and removed it:

The Canadian foreign minister has apologised for including the US and Israel on a list of states where prisoners are at risk of torture.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7198435.stm

:smilebox:

Mr Bernier said he regretted the embarrassment the manual caused​