U.S. war resister faces deportation Christmas Eve

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Ok so i have a bit less sympathy now... If you join the military, expect to get sent to war.

that's why i'd never EVER join any part of the military. I don't agree with war of any kind, and i certainly don't want to get involved in it

Especially in this day and age. In reading some of their reasoning I just don't have too much sympathy. Always going back to the recruiter and how they lied or mislead them.

Well one way or the other... I would say most will be back to the US to face the music.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
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Sitting at my laptop
From what I know by a limited amount, the US or Canada can request one another to send criminals back to each other, but they really don't have to if they don't want to...... but I really don't know much about it.

I imagine if I decide to commit a crime in the US, I'll find out soon enough :-?
Countries that have extradition treaties with Canada

Albania
Argentina
Austria
Belgium
Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
Columbia
Cuba
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
Ecuador
El Salvador
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Guatemala
Haiti
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
India
Israel
Italy
Korea (Republic of)
Latvia
Liberia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Mexico
Monaco
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Norway
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Portugal
Romania
San Marino
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Thailand
Switzerland
Uruguay
USA </SPAN itxtvisited="1">
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Especially in this day and age. In reading some of their reasoning I just don't have too much sympathy. Always going back to the recruiter and how they lied or mislead them.

Well one way or the other... I would say most will be back to the US to face the music.

False advertisement, people sue companies and stores for similar things. When you go and apply for a job, they tell you how much you're going to get paid and what your job will entail, only to have your pay even less then you were told and you end up doing a totally different job then what you were told..... you have the right to get the labour board or a lawyer on their asses..... or quit.

Or if you see a commercial for a product or go into a store and see a product, they tell you you get this this that and the other thing for a certain price, only to get back home and not have the thing they told you you were getting.

Those companies can get in a lot of crap for things like that.......

so how come the US military can get away with it? They're playing with the lives and security of nations, much more of a serious situation then a toaster that only has one slot you were told had two.

If you go into an agreement with the military and they tell/promise you one thing, only to drag you into the middle of another, then where's the protection of the individual put into that position?

But anyways, I believe we already had this debate a few times already.

If they lie or break a contract agreement with you, then the agreement is null and void and you should have every right to leave that contract..... just as if your cell phone company jacks up your monthly bill without any notification or agreement on your behalf.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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False advertisement, people sue companies and stores for similar things. When you go and apply for a job, they tell you how much you're going to get paid and what your job will entail, only to have your pay even less then you were told and you end up doing a totally different job then what you were told..... you have the right to get the labour board or a lawyer on their asses..... or quit.

Or if you see a commercial for a product or go into a store and see a product, they tell you you get this this that and the other thing for a certain price, only to get back home and not have the thing they told you you were getting.

Those companies can get in a lot of crap for things like that.......

so how come the US military can get away with it? They're playing with the lives and security of nations, much more of a serious situation then a toaster that only has one slot you were told had two.

If you go into an agreement with the military and they tell/promise you one thing, only to drag you into the middle of another, then where's the protection of the individual put into that position?

But anyways, I believe we already had this debate a few times already.

If they lie or break a contract agreement with you, then the agreement is null and void and you should have every right to leave that contract..... just as if your cell phone company jacks up your monthly bill without any notification or agreement on your behalf.

The thing is Prax that the ones that do not like the military or regret their decision ALWAYS say the same thing...

My Recruiter lied.

It is a common excuse and is not new to the military. My recruiter was very blunt and to the point...

"When you join the Marines the only thing we gaurentee you is the opportunity to become a Marine."

My brother was in the Navy and his recruiter was straight up when he joined as well. It is just the ones that go UA and are grandstanding that whine about the recruiter. There is enough verbage in the contracts that they signed that says they are joining up for X amount of time and that is that. Saying the recruiter lied is a common tactic and NEVER works.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Send him home. He broke the law here in the US and the US and Canada have that little agreement that we send each others criminals back when they flee the country.

If there is such an agreement, then fine. But then I'd suggest changing the agreement in future to ensure that we're not promoting illigal wars (the UN has already officially claimed that Iraq was an illegal war). This would make the US govenrment itself criminal.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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And how can the US government expect its population to obey its laws when the US itself is incapable fo respecting international law. 'Do as I say, not as I do'?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I would make exceptions. If he lied to immigration and if he voluntarily joined the US military. Otehrwise, if the US military is in an illegal war, no.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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I would make exceptions. If he lied to immigration and if he voluntarily joined the US military. Otehrwise, if the US military is in an illegal war, no.

Either way...he will end up back in the USA and get his due punishment. This guy is a LONG way from Arkansas for sure. They don't take too kindly to deserters back in his home state.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
Either way...he will end up back in the USA and get his due punishment. This guy is a LONG way from Arkansas for sure. They don't take too kindly to deserters back in his home state.


MOST of us don't take to kindly to em either, Eagle. If this was a REAL war as in WW1, they'd be taken out and shot, and our side would be only to happy to send em back. In leg irons and handcuffs.

One of my uncles was an AP during WW2, and he "escorted" a few of them to the border. On trains, mostly, 10 or so in a car under armed guards who were ordered to shoot to kill if anyone tried to 'cause trouble'........not escape, just cause trouble. Said some of em were so scared they wet their pants. **** em!!

If one signs on the line, do your duty, or refuse and take the punishment. ****ing little loophole grabbers piss me off.

Just MHO.

worth 2 cents

maybe
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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MOST of us don't take to kindly to em either, Eagle. If this was a REAL war as in WW1, they'd be taken out and shot, and our side would be only to happy to send em back. In leg irons and handcuffs.

One of my uncles was an AP during WW2, and he "escorted" a few of them to the border. On trains, mostly, 10 or so in a car under armed guards who were ordered to shoot to kill if anyone tried to 'cause trouble'........not escape, just cause trouble. Said some of em were so scared they wet their pants. **** em!!

If one signs on the line, do your duty, or refuse and take the punishment. ****ing little loophole grabbers piss me off.

Just MHO.

worth 2 cents

maybe

I agree Nuggler. Whatever ones opinion of the war is these guys are deserters. I respect people's opinions about the war no matter what it is and whether I agree with them or not.

But these guys and gals did sign a contract and are now in violation. Folks can say they have been lied to, ot the war is immoral so they are innocent just doesn't sit well with most of us. I think they are making excuses for them because they do not like the war.

The fact of the matter is that they deserted. They could have simply said...

"I'm not going" and stayed in the military. Now they would have been prosecuted and court martialed and discharged with a Bad Conduct or Less than Honorable but that would have been it.

These folks went up to Canada and deserted. They grandstanded up there and had the adulation of a lot of Canadians. Now they are feeling the pressure whether it is from the Canadian Courts or just the fact that they are homesick and for some a life in exile in Canada is not that appealing any longer.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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Refuse to go to `eye-raq` and come back ****ed-up or worse, snuck home under cover of darkness in a body-bag, labeled a `hee-ro` and forever forgotten about by all but thier immediate familys (over a bunch of lies)?
Dam tarr`ist....send em to Gitmo for some down home lynchin I says.
:lol:
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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I concede EagleSmack has got a point here. These guys were not conscripted into the military but chose to join of their own free will. If they joined just for a job, then they should have thought about that; they aren't children. If they joined to serve their country but oppose Iraq because it violated international law (though later the UN did request the US to clean up the mess, but that was after the illegal invasion), then take it to court and fight it like a soldier. And even then he could still request a non-combat role on the front lines, as a medic or some other non-combat role.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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If that's ture, then it's pretty sick. What has become of the USA? What about that so called honour they talk about n the US armed forces?

Perhaps we could make an exception if a person should be found to have likely been unduly influenced in such a manner?

I don't know anymore. Gitmo, illegal war, sex in Abu Ghraib, and now marketing war to children. When will the madness end?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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And of course if a person joined under false pretense, he should not only be allowed to leave the military but sue it too.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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The good ole USA is very subtle when commiting crimes against it`s own people.

Sure you`ll hear and see 30 second tidbits in the US media every so often with these `allegations`, but with a population having the memory span of a soap bubble and so distracted by greed and monetary gain, more attention is paid to commercial breaks.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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The good ole USA is very subtle when commiting crimes against it`s own people.

Sure you`ll hear and see 30 second tidbits in the US media every so often with these `allegations`, but with a population having the memory span of a soap bubble and so distracted by greed and monetary gain, more attention is paid to commercial breaks.

I suppose a fair criterion would still be international law. If all international laws are met, then we send him back. But if the US military is engaged in this kind of stuff, that's in clear violation of international law, and so we can't trust that he was fairly recruited or will be used in a just war, and so he reserves the right to stay until this mess is cleared up.
 

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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I suppose a fair criterion would still be international law. If all international laws are met, then we send him back. But if the US military is engaged in this kind of stuff, that's in clear violation of international law, and so we can't trust that he was fairly recruited or will be used in a just war, and so he reserves the right to stay until this mess is cleared up.

He knew what he was getting into. He broke their rules. Send him back and let them sort it out. He shouldn't be a burden on Canada.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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He knew what he was getting into. He broke their rules. Send him back and let them sort it out. He shouldn't be a burden on Canada.


We have billions to blow on a lost cause but feel burdened by this handfull?
Afraid what the US might think of us for allowing them to speak thier minds?

If we send these guys back to the US, were no better than the US itself, for sending innocents back to thier homelands where injustice is commonplace.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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He knew what he was getting into. He broke their rules. Send him back and let them sort it out. He shouldn't be a burden on Canada.

To take an extreme example, if a member of the North Korean military defected, you want to send him back, knowing that if sent back, he'll be used as an example to others to keep them in line while they keep violating international law?

If the US military abides by international laws, I agree. But if it's commiting mayhem around the world and luring kids, then no.

By the way, Canada's military does the same sort of thing as far as kids are concerned. When the air force sends a flight squadron or paratrupers to an airshow, why do you think they do that? It's marketing for kids. Don't kid yourself.