Trudeau 'welcomes' ethics probe of alleged PMO interference in SNC-Lavalin case

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Its just politics.

The real question is why SNC couldn't get a dpa - when everyone else gets one
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
SNC Lavolin committed it's crimes (the ones they're currently facing prosecution for at this point) in that time frame,
2000-2010


and the investigation into those crimes began in that time frame,

2000-2010?

and they where charged with those crimes in that time frame.

2000-2010??
I assume you have some links for all of the above.


The Prosecution of those crimes is happening in this time frame....
https://globalnews.ca/news/5005123/timeline-snc-lavalin-controversy/
Here’s a chronology of events in the SNC-Lavalin controversy:
Feb. 19, 2015 – The RCMP lays corruption and fraud charges against Montreal-based engineering and construction firm SNC-Lavalin, over allegations it used bribery to get government business in Libya. SNC-Lavalin says the charges are without merit and stem from “alleged reprehensible deeds by former employees who left the company long ago.” A conviction could bar the company from bidding on Canadian government business, potentially devastating it.




except that this prosecution is being obstructed in this current time frame (not 2000-2010).


Oct. 19 – The Liberals win a federal election, taking power from the Conservatives. Two weeks later, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau names Jody Wilson-Raybould minister of justice and attorney general of Canada. She is the first Indigenous person to hold the post, which combines duties as a politician (heading the Department of Justice) and a legal official (overseeing prosecutions).
March 27, 2018 – The Liberals table a budget bill that includes a change to the Criminal Code allowing “remediation agreements,” plea-bargain-like deals between prosecutors and accused corporations in which they can avoid criminal proceedings by making reparations for previous bad behaviour. SNC-Lavalin had lobbied for such a provision in Canadian law.



When did they start to lobby and who were their contacts and were there any 'bribes' involved? I assume the Conservatives were the one being 'lobbied' to get immunity from prosecution. If the bribes were fir contracts their company git that is one thing, if it is part if a wider pattern and that pattern if the way the IMF likes to run things there will be 'a conflict' and they do nit like the spotlight unless they turn it one themselves, that is who JT is protecting. Coming from France he knows the system better than any 'Canadian, natural or imported'.


It's past Justin blaming Stevie for this one as the obstruction is being committed by Mr. Trudeau now and not Mr. Harper then.

The company can be charged, they have the right to a plea-bargin rather than being found guilty by means of a trial. That also means mist if the fine details remain iut if the public eye. One side is insisting in a trial when the company is ready to plead guilty and pay the fine and keep doing business as usual.



Spring – Although the bill has yet to pass, SNC-Lavalin contacts Public Prosecution Service lawyers to ensure they have all relevant information for a possible invitation to negotiate a remediation agreement. During the next three months, in response to requests from prosecutors, SNC-Lavalin provides detailed information it sees as making a strong case for an agreement.
WATCH: Wilson-Raybould could speak on SNC-Lavalin affair ‘in a free manner’: Trudeau


Sept. 4 – The prosecution service tells SNC-Lavalin it will not invite the firm to negotiate a remediation agreement.
Sept. 17 – Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould discuss the SNC-Lavalin file. As attorney general, Wilson-Raybould could overrule the prosecution service, directing it to negotiate an agreement with the company. (Trudeau later says Wilson-Raybould asked him if he planned to tell her what to do concerning the prosecution _ a conversation that he says ended with him telling her any decision was hers alone.)
Sept. 18 – SNC-Lavalin representatives meet with Privy Council clerk Michael Wernick, Canada’s most senior public servant, and Finance Minister Bill Morneau to discuss issues including “justice and law enforcement.”




The Deferred Prosecution tool snuck into the Liberal's omnibus bill isn't applicable to SNC Lavolin anyway regardless of what Justin Trudeau wants and how much interference he tries to impose upon the office of the Attorney General.
Have you even asked yourself why a liberal would try and hide crimes committed under the nose of the opposition?? A trial where every witness takes the 5th or claim national security because Libya was a NATO operation and not just a Canadian business deal. Don't be surprised if she doesn't end up being labeled anti-Quebec when it is revealed that businesses in BC spend a lit more than that wining and dining people in China.


From: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...-push-for-deferred-prosecution-came-up-short/


The law does give prosecutors latitude to consider the national economic interest in their deliberations. But the legislative summary for Bill C-74 makes clear that prosecutors can only do so in cases that don’t involve bribery of foreign officials, which is exactly what SNC stands accused of doing.
https://business.financialpost.com/...raud-and-corruption-linked-to-libyan-projects

For SNC, the charges represent another black cloud in a storm the company has been trying to escape since a tip from Swiss authorities triggered the RCMP investigation, dubbed Project Assistance, in 2011.

The charges, filed Thursday in Montreal, do not specify who received the bribes, but a previously released RCMP affidavit, containing unproven allegations, described Saadi Gaddafi as a major recipient of SNC’s largesse.
According to police, Ben Aissa established a scheme in which two companies, Duvel Securities and Dinova International, billed SNC roughly $127 million for helping the firm win dozens of major contracts in Libya during the 2000s. In fact, Swiss and Canadian police say, Duvel and Dinova were shell companies controlled by Ben Aissa. The money – including US$1.5 million spent on a yacht for Saadi Gaddafi — was used to bribe Libyan officials and pad the bank accounts of Ben Aissa and Mr. Bebawi, who left SNC in 2006.
The contracts landed by SNC were grandiose projects with names to please the vanity of a dictator – the Great Man Made River Project, a plan to pump water from wells in the southern desert to the coastal north, is among those listed in the fraud charge. And the RCMP alleges that as the president’s son, Saadi Gaddafi “was in a position of power and able to give a business advantage to SNC-Lavalin in Libya.” Saadi Gaddafi was even offered business training and salaried employment by SNC and had expenses covered by the firm when he travelled in Canada, the affidavit alleges


The World Bank then destroyed everything except the oil export terminals.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,097
10,499
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
He was after a dpa
Which was not applicable even if the Attorney General wished to be bent to political harassment and influence forced upon her and her staff repeatedly and chronically over the coarse of months.
How is that obstruction?
How is it not? At least ten meetings and at least ten calls and all the emails and so & so forth to try to sway the Attorney General politically, and when the Attorney General refused to be influenced to do something that she couldn't legally do anyway, she was shuffled out to be relpaced with someone who might? It's not up to Justin Trudeau what happens in a criminal court case. Then the fallout that isn't passing the stink-test with Butts butting out, and Trudeau on further attempted damage control into his fifth (that I'm aware of) ethics scandal in his first term of office. Trudeau sure isn't acting like someone who hasn't done something wrong, is he? When he isn't able to attack the message he's attacking the messenger.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,097
10,499
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Its just politics.

The real question is why SNC couldn't get a dpa - when everyone else gets one
Please see post #278.
The law does give prosecutors latitude to consider the national economic interest in their deliberations. But the legislative summary for Bill C-74 makes clear that prosecutors can only do so in cases that don’t involve bribery of foreign officials, which is exactly what SNC stands accused of doing.
 
Last edited:

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,097
10,499
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
2000-2010

2000-2010?

2000-2010??
I assume you have some links for all of the above.....

Sorry man, the shear volume of the stank attached to SNC Lavolin & it's many tentacles and scandals ran together on me:


 
Last edited:

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Please see post #278.
The law does give prosecutors latitude to consider the national economic interest in their deliberations. But the legislative summary for Bill C-74 makes clear that prosecutors can only do so in cases that don’t involve bribery of foreign officials, which is exactly what SNC stands accused of doing.
This is simply a legal opinion.

Nothing more.

If Ms Raybould could not see her way to doing it she could easily have stepped aside and allowed Trudeau to replace her with someone who would do it for him.

She chose a different route.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,097
10,499
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
This is simply a legal opinion.

Nothing more.

If Ms Raybould could not see her way to doing it she could easily have stepped aside and allowed Trudeau to replace her with someone who would do it for him.

She chose a different route.
I provided a LINK to a summary. If you wish to read the original document in its 500+page entirety, you also have Google. I haven't read it (& I doubt most MP's haven't read it in its entirety) but it sounds fairly clear that SNC doesn't fit it's qualifications. Square peg and round hole sort'a thing. Given a 4lb hammer I could make most things fit into other things, but in this case Trudeau trying to use his behind closed doors 4lb hammer to influence the outcome of a current criminal case is a no-no and should deserve a pee-pee whack. This wouldn't be SNC Lavolin's first experience legal issues do to its business practices so it doesn't seem like its reformed.

 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Sorry man, the shear volume of the stank attached to SNC Lavolin & it's many tentacles and scandals ran together on me:


Was his son acting in an official capacity?? He probably had $100k on himself just as 'mad money'.
7.4 is bribery, in Canada. How many kick-back cases have the Feds prosecuted in the last 30 years?? My guess is close to 'zero'.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
I provided a LINK to a summary. If you wish to read the original document in its 500+page entirety, you also have Google. I haven't read it (& I doubt most MP's haven't read it in its entirety) but it sounds fairly clear that SNC doesn't fit it's qualifications. Square peg and round hole sort'a thing. Given a 4lb hammer I could make most things fit into other things, but in this case Trudeau trying to use his behind closed doors 4lb hammer to influence the outcome of a current criminal case is a no-no and should deserve a pee-pee whack. This wouldn't be SNC Lavolin's first experience legal issues do to its business practices so it doesn't seem like its reformed.

Billions in contracts for bribes amounting to $40M, no wonder the 'salesman' was so 'popular' with 'head office'. He is probably working at a better job right now.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,097
10,499
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Was his son acting in an official capacity?? He probably had $100k on himself just as 'mad money'.
7.4 is bribery, in Canada. How many kick-back cases have the Feds prosecuted in the last 30 years?? My guess is close to 'zero'.
Official or non-official capacity, who paid for his $30,000+ in Hookers and why? SNC Lavolin was comping Gaddafi's boy 'cuz....? What would be that motivation whether he was in an official or non-official capacity? I'm assuming it wasn't for a tax write off.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
I provided a LINK to a summary. If you wish to read the original document in its 500+page entirety, you also have Google. I haven't read it (& I doubt most MP's haven't read it in its entirety) but it sounds fairly clear that SNC doesn't fit it's qualifications. Square peg and round hole sort'a thing. Given a 4lb hammer I could make most things fit into other things, but in this case Trudeau trying to use his behind closed doors 4lb hammer to influence the outcome of a current criminal case is a no-no and should deserve a pee-pee whack. This wouldn't be SNC Lavolin's first experience legal issues do to its business practices so it doesn't seem like its reformed.

I can see you bring the same scrupulous attention facts to being a crown attorney that you bring to being a google climatologist.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,031
6,152
113
Twin Moose Creek
Should governments interfere in criminal prosecutions? It depends, says AG David Lametti




…..…………..read more in the article
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has denied allegations that he or his staff have acted inappropriately in reference to the possibility of cutting a deal for SNC-Lavalin — and said he does not agree with the version of events presented during Wilson-Raybould's marathon testimony before the House of Commons justice committee Wednesday.
He has said, however, that the government has a responsibility to look out for jobs and the economy. SNC-Lavalin is a big employer in seat-rich Quebec, and a conviction on fraud and corruption charges would prevent it from competing for lucrative public contracts.

READ MORE: New attorney general ‘under the thumb’ of Trudeau, says Tory Candice Bergen on SNC-Lavalin
Lametti, a Montreal MP, also didn't rule out the possibility of a future remediation agreement, a deal that would allow SNC-Lavalin to admit wrongdoing and pay a fine but avoid a ban on bidding for government work. He said it was a legal option but refused to say whether he is considering it.
He said that attorney general decisions can always be changed if new information comes to light.
“You do have an ongoing obligation as attorney general, in terms of your relationship to prosecutions and the prosecution service, to be open to new facts,” he said. “I can’t speak to the actual facts [of the SNC-Lavalin affair] but I know that in principle, an attorney general has to remain open so, in that sense, no decision is ever final.”
 

Decapoda

Council Member
Mar 4, 2016
1,682
801
113
Should governments interfere in criminal prosecutions? It depends, says AG David Lametti

Well, looks like Trudeau has found the right guy for the job, it appears Lometti's moral standards match that of his bosses.

"If someone approached you and said an election is at stake, would that be a persuasive argument to you?" Stephenson asked.

He said it "depends on the context" and added that he doesn't know if the contact between Wilson-Raybould and key figures in the Trudeau government on SNC-Lavalin was appropriate or inappropriate because he doesn't know the details.

First, there is no context where it should be reasonable to interfere politically with an active criminal prosecution. Second, if he doesn't know the details, he certainly hasn't been paying attention and doesn't belong in this position. This guy is as big an imbecile as Trudeau, and that's not an easy feat to achieve.
 

Decapoda

Council Member
Mar 4, 2016
1,682
801
113
One aspect of this scandal that no one has addressed, which was brought up by Canadian lawyer Manny Montenengrino during an interview last week.... if SNC Lavalin was in the middle of an active appeal of the decision by the Federal Prosecutors not to proceed with a DPA (which is their legal right to do), what were they doing lobbying Government to intervene while their case was active before the court? This is a clear violation of Canadian legal standard and in itself is an illegal act, as is the action of the Liberal Government to even entertain such lobbying, never mind attempt to interject on SNC Lavalin's behalf.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Official or non-official capacity, who paid for his $30,000+ in Hookers and why? SNC Lavolin was comping Gaddafi's boy 'cuz....? What would be that motivation whether he was in an official or non-official capacity? I'm assuming it wasn't for a tax write off.
It probably was, only salesman with $4M+ per year expense account.

Do you think anyone in the Ukraine was bribed (by any 'Westener') before/during/after the recent coup?? (including from the $5B the CIA has admitted to spending)
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
JW-R credibility took a little hit in my eyes this morning, listening to CBCNN this morning they reported that she intends to stay in the party and seek re-election this fall. IMO if she was un-happy with Sunny ways she should have announced not seeking re-election this fall, but remain until then to serve her constituents. Run for leadership after the Lib. defeat this fall. This way her integrity could not be questioned making her a favourite to win leadership and win over many Canadians in the 2023 election. By demanding to run this fall in a way shows that she is shallow, endorsing the current leadership and damaging her integrity to an extent. Again IMO




This latest news article merely proves my earlier statement about JWR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I said she was apparently the most clean of LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BUT SHE IS STILL A LIE-BERAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why did shoe not resign after being pressured about Lavalin?????????????????????????



Simply because she did not want to destroy her career as a LIE-beral!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You cannot expose party CRAP and stay with the Party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And you cannot simply walk away and PRETEND you knew nothing about the party crap- after it is exposed- and still keep your political career after being seen HELPING HIDE the ugly truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
One aspect of this scandal that no one has addressed, which was brought up by Canadian lawyer Manny Montenengrino during an interview last week.... if SNC Lavalin was in the middle of an active appeal of the decision by the Federal Prosecutors not to proceed with a DPA (which is their legal right to do), what were they doing lobbying Government to intervene while their case was active before the court? This is a clear violation of Canadian legal standard and in itself is an illegal act, as is the action of the Liberal Government to even entertain such lobbying, never mind attempt to interject on SNC Lavalin's behalf.
It is the action of every government to involve themselves in their own re-election.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,031
6,152
113
Twin Moose Creek
Moving the goalposts and lowering the bar

The Liberal arguments over the weekend were versions of the following: 1) deferred prosecution agreements (DPAs) are legitimate; 2) economic considerations can factor into the decision-making to grant said DPA; 3) “pressure” is in the eye of the beholder; 4) the system worked as it should; and 5) no laws were broken.
The first two points aren’t in dispute—although Liberals don’t like to remind us they brought DPAs in at SNC’s request—and the last three are dark muck being thrown over a what has always been a bright red line. read more