i have always been of the mind set that first nations, inuit and metis SHOULD have certain rights that the rest of the country doesn't. I wish, as a Metis, that I didn't have to register firearms and was permitted any weapon I choose. that'd be awesome. I want all sorts of rights. I think the Red River metis should be distinct and seperate from other Metis. There should be a treaty signed with us and distinction given to us. our rights should be upheld. When the gov signed treaties the intent was to not take anything from the way of life and rights etc. that existed before they screwed the tribe over. We should therefore have mercantile and trading rights. that's what I want. Especially now that the wheat board is going kaput, I could make a fortune.
Treaty Process Needs A New Look in BC/Caanda
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
- Start date
Fine, provided you are willing to hunt with a spear, haul your merchandise with a travois and heat your teepee with buffalo chips. And educate your own kids.
Common, man, the Metis never did that. They had guns, farmed and had their own land and houses. Guess you didn't have enough coffee yet, eh?
Can't be true. According to dumpster we're all technologically challenged and stuck in the past.
Like what?
Oh, you think the second question answers the first...
If you actually knew as much as you pretend to, you'd know that it doesn't.
But thanks again for proving me right.
Yet again.
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Exactly who the Metis are is a question in itself. The govt largely defines them and supports them. The govt defines national security and race.
The Metis didn't always farm, they hunted buffalo on the prairie for a number of years in the 18th and 19th centuries. They did a bit of farming, hunting, gathering etc. Like many country people/pre-modern people, they liked to keep to a minimum the amount of work they had to do. Not a bad lifestyle but the modern world has other ideas. They liked to live off the land-the land provides, not work it like we do.
On the west coast, salmon runs were huge until recent times. Same for the east coast cod. Things change. The old "rights" never were.
I know some about these talks but not enough to be an expert by any means so here is my
two cents worth. I have never heard of any group of First Nations that want to be regarded
as a Nation yet want to leave Canada. These tracks of land were given to them by governments
as reservations, and in some cases were given to them with the understanding that they were
theirs exclusively. That was reference at the time of history for them being a nation withing the
confines of the reservation.
It had positive and negative effects. For one the country wanted these lands back if they found
minerals, oil and anything of value. But of course they gave these lands away thinking they
were worthless. The Natives got the education and the expertise to develop things themselves
and cut the rest of society out of the loop, which is just not right.(yes I jest CDNBear).
The problem is the Governments of the day Federally and Provincially, dragged these talks out
for generations hoping the problem would go away and they wouldn't have to deal wit the true
meaning of what the original intent was. Now of course they didn't understand the depth of
patients the Natives had, and now they are going to pay the cost of procrastination and it serves
them right.
What really puzzled me though, is this. In the opening I am not sure who dumpthemonarchy was
trying to dump on. the Natives or the NDP. If you look at the talks to date I don't think any of
the major parties have done a great job at getting the final papers signed. All of them have
stalled and or postured themselves to achieve failure in hopes of not being the govenment that
appeared to give in. It is not about giving in, it is about coming to a resolve, to right history by
keeping their word. It is about resolving the issues to ensure that all citizens benefit from the
results. That includes the Natives and the other segments of society. Some say well the Natives
will get direct funds from resources in terms of payment for the use of oil, and minerals and
natural gas and forests and so on. Why should they?
The answer is simple, they are smarter than the rest of us. Most of society is willing to let the
governments negotiate with large companies that in most cases are friendly partners. These
companies pay a fraction of the value and keep the profit. The citizens of the country get a token
payment, and a dream of a legacy fund that isn't worth the paper its written on.
The Natives are dealing in real partnerships with smart lawyers many of them native and they are
insisting that the people at large directly benefit. They get jobs, education and training and money.
The rest of society gets a few roads paved in comparison.
It is my view that the Natives are taking care of business, and the rest of us are complaining because
what goes round comes round, and we don't like it.
two cents worth. I have never heard of any group of First Nations that want to be regarded
as a Nation yet want to leave Canada. These tracks of land were given to them by governments
as reservations, and in some cases were given to them with the understanding that they were
theirs exclusively. That was reference at the time of history for them being a nation withing the
confines of the reservation.
It had positive and negative effects. For one the country wanted these lands back if they found
minerals, oil and anything of value. But of course they gave these lands away thinking they
were worthless. The Natives got the education and the expertise to develop things themselves
and cut the rest of society out of the loop, which is just not right.(yes I jest CDNBear).
The problem is the Governments of the day Federally and Provincially, dragged these talks out
for generations hoping the problem would go away and they wouldn't have to deal wit the true
meaning of what the original intent was. Now of course they didn't understand the depth of
patients the Natives had, and now they are going to pay the cost of procrastination and it serves
them right.
What really puzzled me though, is this. In the opening I am not sure who dumpthemonarchy was
trying to dump on. the Natives or the NDP. If you look at the talks to date I don't think any of
the major parties have done a great job at getting the final papers signed. All of them have
stalled and or postured themselves to achieve failure in hopes of not being the govenment that
appeared to give in. It is not about giving in, it is about coming to a resolve, to right history by
keeping their word. It is about resolving the issues to ensure that all citizens benefit from the
results. That includes the Natives and the other segments of society. Some say well the Natives
will get direct funds from resources in terms of payment for the use of oil, and minerals and
natural gas and forests and so on. Why should they?
The answer is simple, they are smarter than the rest of us. Most of society is willing to let the
governments negotiate with large companies that in most cases are friendly partners. These
companies pay a fraction of the value and keep the profit. The citizens of the country get a token
payment, and a dream of a legacy fund that isn't worth the paper its written on.
The Natives are dealing in real partnerships with smart lawyers many of them native and they are
insisting that the people at large directly benefit. They get jobs, education and training and money.
The rest of society gets a few roads paved in comparison.
It is my view that the Natives are taking care of business, and the rest of us are complaining because
what goes round comes round, and we don't like it.
Canuck you missed my point, it is always that the mainstream of society has for
decades felt superior or they were smarter or more advanced how ever you would
like to describe it. The demonstration of that is the residential schools to stomp
out the way of life of the Native people and the reservation or segregated system
of living. There were other measure as well.
As it turns out the worthless land they were given has the resources on it and the
Natives got the education thing and made sure some of their best and brightest
got to be lawyers and business people. They maintained their belief in a system
where everyone would benefit. The rest of the society on the other hand allowed
the rich and power oil companies and mining interests to extract the wealth for
a small portion of its worth and afford the proceeds to a few shareholders and the
the small royalty paid gave a few bucks to society.
When the final tally is written and the price paid most natives will benefit where
as most of the rest of society will have practically given their interest away for
little or nothing. On an organized level, who do you think is smarter? The Natives
because they never lost sight of their goals and interests where the rest of us
squandered our portion of the real riches.
Time and patients are paying off for those who had to wait. I didn't say Natives
were smarter in all things, I said in these matters they were smarter and they
executed their plan. And when it comes to situation they were smarter and the
rest of society is beginning to see that. I believe we should be developing our
own resources or charging way more for their value and paying dividends to
every citizen. Right now we get a few cents and shareholders benefit from a
public resource. It is not racist it is true and more power to the Natives who did
a better job looking after their interests.
Some people have told me the Natives should be looking to the good of the
nation as a whole. Well its funny no one cared about the natives when the shoe
was on the other foot did they? I am not native but I do understand the problems
we have now are ones of societies own making. What is the saying? Oh
Paybacks are hell or something like that.
decades felt superior or they were smarter or more advanced how ever you would
like to describe it. The demonstration of that is the residential schools to stomp
out the way of life of the Native people and the reservation or segregated system
of living. There were other measure as well.
As it turns out the worthless land they were given has the resources on it and the
Natives got the education thing and made sure some of their best and brightest
got to be lawyers and business people. They maintained their belief in a system
where everyone would benefit. The rest of the society on the other hand allowed
the rich and power oil companies and mining interests to extract the wealth for
a small portion of its worth and afford the proceeds to a few shareholders and the
the small royalty paid gave a few bucks to society.
When the final tally is written and the price paid most natives will benefit where
as most of the rest of society will have practically given their interest away for
little or nothing. On an organized level, who do you think is smarter? The Natives
because they never lost sight of their goals and interests where the rest of us
squandered our portion of the real riches.
Time and patients are paying off for those who had to wait. I didn't say Natives
were smarter in all things, I said in these matters they were smarter and they
executed their plan. And when it comes to situation they were smarter and the
rest of society is beginning to see that. I believe we should be developing our
own resources or charging way more for their value and paying dividends to
every citizen. Right now we get a few cents and shareholders benefit from a
public resource. It is not racist it is true and more power to the Natives who did
a better job looking after their interests.
Some people have told me the Natives should be looking to the good of the
nation as a whole. Well its funny no one cared about the natives when the shoe
was on the other foot did they? I am not native but I do understand the problems
we have now are ones of societies own making. What is the saying? Oh
Paybacks are hell or something like that.
How many differences can you spot?
Blood Tribe - Kainai
Town of Pincher Creek Alberta
I see one really big one right off the top...LOL
Blood Tribe - Kainai
Town of Pincher Creek Alberta
I see one really big one right off the top...LOL
Good for you.
So now we know you need great big shiny signs so you get things.
That would explain why my question ended with you proving my point...
Which is of course, how you PWND yourself...
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To suggest that the aboriginal community has maintained this belief is sheer nonsense. You are buying into the propaganda. Have you not followed the myriad of stories where money flows unfettered to those at the top of some of these organizations.
There are a lot of misconceptions out there. Number one is that you need land in order to succeed. Singapore and Japan clearly show this to be a cop out. Singapore has virtually no natural resources yet I doubt you would hear them talk about how their land in "worthless"
Perhaps in your romantic view of things. For me, I see that Canada did pretty good and I, living in southern Alberta would not trade places with anybody currently living on a reservation. Clearly you have a romantic version of how things are. That is fine but I don't happen to share it.
Gish Gallop - RationalWiki
Post in Transit
Originally, treaties with Indians had a military component, now they don't. That is a good reason to extinguish them, we no longer need their power at all. They are obsolete. No need to pay for what we don't need.
Originally, treaties with Indians had a military component, now they don't. That is a good reason to extinguish them, we no longer need their power at all. They are obsolete. No need to pay for what we don't need.
Re: Post in Transit
But...the Treaty's are our word, our promise, and that must mean something?
But...the Treaty's are our word, our promise, and that must mean something?
Re: Post in Transit
Where "allegiance" was no longer the part of the negotiation, the main article, being land.
The Crown got their benefit from the contract. So shall the second party.
All treaties were for "allegiance"?
Only if "allegiance" was the sole premise. Which of course it wasn't.
Only if you ignore that many treaties were written after all conflicts between England, France, and the US had ended.
Where "allegiance" was no longer the part of the negotiation, the main article, being land.
The Crown got their benefit from the contract. So shall the second party.
It should.
Re: Post in Transit
The treaties were between nations. Do you really believe that they are "nations" now or are they groups of Canadians that want to call themselves a nation but continue to be Canadian?
The treaties were between nations. Do you really believe that they are "nations" now or are they groups of Canadians that want to call themselves a nation but continue to be Canadian?
Re: Post in Transit
Afraid I might press you to tell us what Nations consider themselves sovereign and Canadian again?
Re: Post in Transit
Or are you insinuating I consider myself sovereign and Canadian at the same time?
I'm not a Nation.
Or are you insinuating I consider myself sovereign and Canadian at the same time?
Re: Post in Transit
He's never going to understand. Neither of them will. No matter what they are told or shown.