Trans activists silence gay human rights lawyer for not being subservient enough

[The_Foxer]

Adam Zivo: Trans activists silence gay human rights lawyer for not being subservient enough

McGill talk would have explored rejecting the coalition between those who are LGB and those who are trans

nationalpost.com

This is actually kind of a fascinating issue, and is more of an interesting study into the world of left wing radicalism than anything else. Any person or idea that doesn't represent 100 percent favoritism for the cause is seen as 'hate' and 'anti rights' and it is therefore fair game to lie and attack whomever said it wholesale with any means possible.

And this is the sort of 'cultural terrorism' we should really be calling out as a society. We've allowed it to flourish for about 15 years in the states and a little less so in Canada but still far too much.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Though we have a Friend who’s Tran’s, we’re really on the outside of this topic.

Here’s an interesting news story though I read earlier today about Trans children, parental knowledge, the schools, etc… that I found disturbing in that it’s school policy in some places to keep the parents or guardians out of the loop on their child’s welfare and wellbeing.

The worry, among many parents and experts alike, is that schools are not just promoting diversity and inclusivity, but instead causing confusion about sexual identity and encouraging choices that youth may not be fully capable of making and might not be in their long-term interests.

NP View: Schools trampling parental rights in the name of affirming gender identity — National Post

In the vast majority of cases, parents have their children’s best interests at heart

apple.news

Data from Trans Youth CAN project shows that the number of young people being referred for puberty blockers or hormones to nine clinics across the country increased from virtually none in 2004, to over 1,000 in 2016. Some gender-identity clinics have begun accepting referrals from teachers and guidance counsellors, thus allowing school staff, who lack any medical or psychological training, to bypass legal guardians and family physicians and put kids on a path that could have a profound effect on their futures.

More and more, governments and school boards are disregarding the rights — indeed, the moral obligations — of parents to make decisions about how their children are raised, educated and cared for. We’re glad that schools are working to put an end to bullying and discrimination, but they have a duty to ensure that their good intentions do not lead to negative unintended consequences. The best way to do this is to ensure that parents are actively involved in matters affecting their children’s education and well-being.

 

[petros]

Thats disturbing.

 

[The_Foxer]

hat I found disturbing in that it’s school policy in some places to keep the parents or guardians out of the loop on their child’s welfare and wellbeing.

I have a massive, massive problem with this as well. It's just plain wrong. They claim the child might be in danger were the parents to know - if the child is REALLY in such a dangerous environment then they should be removed entirely. But it is WRONG to take ANY medical action on the children without letting the parents know.

But that's lefties for you - they believe they know what's right better than anyone else and they have NO PROBLEM violating human rights or basic decency to see to it others are forced to bend to their will.

 

[Ron in Regina]

We don’t have kids that are not already adults now. They’re all in their 30’s now, so we’re not directly in this issue now but we do have five grandchildren at this point.

Thinking back to when we had school aged children of our own though, I only had one encounter with the school where they though I as a parent didn’t need to know about something that I REALLY should have know about sooner.

Our Son in public school was being bullied (and many many other students at the same time by the same child) by another child three years older than him. I found out about this the day he had enough and fought back….took this other child (who was in grade 7 while our Son was in grade 4) and put the boots to him until a “playground supervisor” pulled him off.

Now the school finally contacts me to tell me that “perhaps I should seek anger management for our Son” ??? I was blown away….and as they explained what was happening (the bullying by many many by the same student for years)…I asked for a meeting that day with the school’s principal. Our son had never mentioned what was going on at the school before this date & had not mentioned what it happened that day, even until I already knew about it, and confronted him about it.

No kid wants to be “the Rat” and the threats of this older student towards him, and many many other students kept him quiet. The school knew what was going on, but they said nothing.

My meeting was at 4:30 PM and when I was allowed in to meet with the principal, there was also a police officer there…to protect the principal…. From me? Seriously. I was an upset parent because of the circumstances but I was by no means threatening or a threat. That was an eye-opener. The principal treated the meeting as a political situation, and nothing to do with the well-being or safety of the students….

The fact that this older student was bullying and beating up many many many children FOR YEARS…. And the school was well aware of it… and the children were threatened by this older student, but if they said anything to anybody, they would get it worse…. Until our son snapped And fight back and won more than decisively, the school did not create an awareness about this whatsoever with us as parents. I was pretty pissed. I can understand the anger and frustration of the parents above being cut out of their child’s physical and mental welfare by the school system.

(This is gonna date things, but the police officer that was present for the meeting between myself and the principal, he had a shaved head and wraparound sunglasses that he wore indoors throughout the entire meeting… and he refused to sit down, or speak, and he kept positioning himself behind me while I sat… with his arms crossed so that he can try and pump up the appearance of his biceps. It was a pure outright failure of an attempt to intimidate me. I’m over 6 feet tall and this officer was about 4 inches taller than I was and a decade younger. I’m sure this was no accident. That was such a bullshit move)

 

[Serryah]

Though we have a Friend who’s Tran’s, we’re really on the outside of this topic.

Here’s an interesting news story though I read earlier today about Trans children, parental knowledge, the schools, etc… that I found disturbing in that it’s school policy in some places to keep the parents or guardians out of the loop on their child’s welfare and wellbeing.

The worry, among many parents and experts alike, is that schools are not just promoting diversity and inclusivity, but instead causing confusion about sexual identity and encouraging choices that youth may not be fully capable of making and might not be in their long-term interests.

NP View: Schools trampling parental rights in the name of affirming gender identity — National Post

In the vast majority of cases, parents have their children’s best interests at heart

apple.news

Data from Trans Youth CAN project shows that the number of young people being referred for puberty blockers or hormones to nine clinics across the country increased from virtually none in 2004, to over 1,000 in 2016. Some gender-identity clinics have begun accepting referrals from teachers and guidance counsellors, thus allowing school staff, who lack any medical or psychological training, to bypass legal guardians and family physicians and put kids on a path that could have a profound effect on their futures.

More and more, governments and school boards are disregarding the rights — indeed, the moral obligations — of parents to make decisions about how their children are raised, educated and cared for. We’re glad that schools are working to put an end to bullying and discrimination, but they have a duty to ensure that their good intentions do not lead to negative unintended consequences. The best way to do this is to ensure that parents are actively involved in matters affecting their children’s education and well-being.

I can see why parents would be upset and if the world were a better place and humans better beings, a kid shouldn't have to be afraid to open up to their parents about their gender, and parents concerns about others 'hiding' such things would be an issue. But then on the flip side, kids are scared of what their parents will do to them if they find out they're trans. Or even gay still.

It's out of fear.

School shouldn't be the ones that tell parents about their gender if the child has an actual fear of reaction from the parents. I mean, considering the vitriol about Trans kids from adults as it is now, and that most trans kid suicides is because of parents not accepting them, it's dangerous to out these kids. I mean it's not like parents will be open about their ideas/beliefs and what they'd do if their kid came home after being outed. They'll hide it behind fake smiles and support.

The question becomes, which is better for the kid - letting them deal with their parents and how they want to tell them about their gender status, or out them and possibly put those kids in danger of bullying, torture or suicide?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

It's out of fear.

Rolling Thunder!

 

[petros]

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www.canada.ca

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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Ron in Regina]

I can see why parents would be upset and if the world were a better place and humans better beings, a kid shouldn't have to be afraid to open up to their parents about their gender, and parents concerns about others 'hiding' such things would be an issue. But then on the flip side, kids are scared of what their parents will do to them if they find out they're trans. Or even gay still.

It's out of fear.

When a Couple we’ve known for a few decades had one of their daughters come to them when she was a teenager to tell him that she was gay, they responded by telling her, “Honey, we’ve known for years. We just let you figure it out for yourself.”

School shouldn't be the ones that tell parents about their gender if the child has an actual fear of reaction from the parents….

Is this the “schools” place to decide what a parent or guardian is aware of regarding their child? Is that not overstepping their role? This below is from the link in post#2:

“Kids were being taught to lie to parents,” said a Calgary mother whose child’s Grade 6 class was told by a teacher that the gender identify of a classmate must be kept from that student’s parents. In another instance, a Toronto mother complained that her child’s school changed her kid’s name and pronouns without ever consulting her.

It would be easy to write off such incidents as anecdotal or isolated, but the schools were merely following official government guidance. The Alberta government’s guidelines state that protecting “a student’s personal information and privacy” is of paramount importance, including, “having a student’s explicit permission before disclosing information related to the student’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression to peers, parents, guardians or other adults in their lives.”

….I mean, considering the vitriol about Trans kids from adults as it is now, and that most trans kid suicides is because of parents not accepting them, it's dangerous to out these kids.

Ok. I believe you. No reason not to.

I mean it's not like parents will be open about their ideas/beliefs and what they'd do if their kid came home after being outed. They'll hide it behind fake smiles and support.

Really? You know this as a fact? You know how all parents are going to react so they should should be kept in the dark, by the school, about their own child like I was? As a policy?

The question becomes, which is better for the kid - letting them deal with their parents and how they want to tell them about their gender status, or out them and possibly put those kids in danger of bullying, torture or suicide?

My kid (& many many, many others) where being bullied & threatened about telling about the bullying…. By one student that was three years older than our Son was…& The school decided that was none of my business until my child fought back. At the time apparently, my child was more afraid of the bully than he was of me, and in my opinion, it was not the schools place to keep that from me.

Had I have known, I was more than capable of having a somewhat civil but very honest conversation with the bullies parents….& I could’ve ended this bullying for not only my son, but for many many many other children. The fact that the school wanted to avoid an issue with many many parents about the bullying situation, so they took it upon themselves to make sure that it continued for years… with one problem child doing the bullying… I really did not appreciate.

 

[Ron in Regina]

By the way, for that bully in grade 7, having somebody in grade 4, who had had enough and fought back, & took him to the ground and put the boots to him until the playground supervisor pulled our Son off… that actually turned out to be a very positive thing for all of the other students.

Within the next two years, once our son was in grade 6, he became physically the biggest person in the school including all the staff, but I guess that’s a different story (That school went to grade 8).

 

[The_Foxer]

and that most trans kid suicides is because of parents not accepting them,

There's not a scrap of evidence to support that, and in fact there's no evidence that trans kids kill themselves any more than any other kids. Is there.

See this is the problem with the left - they MUST lie to support their narrative. And that's all it is.

Here you go Serryah, here's your chance to prove me wrong. Post the actual study that shows that trans children are killing themselves in larger numbers than other children because of their parents reactions. One credible study. Not - 'suicidal thoughts', not 'attempted suicide' which is very easy to lie about - but actually kill themselves. Go ahead. Just one credible study.

You're Lying entirely to justify what in reality is a horrible ACTUAL abuse of children - removing them from a loving home and denying them access to their parents by preying on their fears that their parents may not approve. It's nothing short of monsterous and history will not remember your kind fondly.

 

[Serryah]

When a Couple we’ve known for a few decades had one of their daughters come to them when she was a teenager to tell him that she was gay, they responded by telling her, “Honey, we’ve known for years. We just let you figure it out for yourself.”

A lucky kid. When I came out to my mom, her first reaction was the typical "What did we do wrong?" Then seek answers for blame for herself. She finally got past it though and was okay.

My father I never came out to officially and never will.

Is this the “schools” place to decide what a parent or guardian is aware of regarding their child? Is that not overstepping their role? This below is from the link in post#2:

“Kids were being taught to lie to parents,” said a Calgary mother whose child’s Grade 6 class was told by a teacher that the gender identify of a classmate must be kept from that student’s parents. In another instance, a Toronto mother complained that her child’s school changed her kid’s name and pronouns without ever consulting her.

Well first I'd ask the kids age, but overall? Is it the school's place to betray what the kid wants? If the kid's life is in danger, then what right would the school have to put that kid in danger?

Don't get me wrong I do get the complaint of parents. In your first example though of kids not being told to out their classmate to their parents, that's not overstepping, that's called respecting the wishes of their classmate. The second though, that's the harder issue and it's the kind that presents questions and overall a "What DO teachers/schools do with kids who don't want their parents to know their gender?"

I hear "Parents should be able to decide how to raise their kid-" and my immediate thought is "Holy frig, if a kid is coming out trans to those people, that kid is likely not going to have a 'fun time'" because being trans is not a matter of "Raising" a kid, it's a matter of who they are. The phrase just brings to mind punishment, forcing the kid to "not be Trans" and so on.

It would be easy to write off such incidents as anecdotal or isolated, but the schools were merely following official government guidance. The Alberta government’s guidelines state that protecting “a student’s personal information and privacy” is of paramount importance, including, “having a student’s explicit permission before disclosing information related to the student’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression to peers, parents, guardians or other adults in their lives.”

Which I can agree with because it's a case of which is safer, acknowledging the student's wishes or dismissing them, outing them to parents and putting them in danger possibly?

Ok. I believe you. No reason not to.

Really? You know this as a fact? You know how all parents are going to react so they should should be kept in the dark, by the school, about their own child like I was? As a policy?

Not all parents will react like that but again, how do teachers KNOW precisely how a parent will react? Too many stories of parents appearing okay when they're first told in a public face, only to turn around and push their kids to harm in private.

In your case, no, bullying shouldn't have been kept in the dark but it's also unlikely you'd blame your own kid for such bullying and thus punish him for it, right? That doesn't happen with trans kids. Their parents join in on the bullying.

So what should schools do then?

My kid (& many many, many others) where being bullied & threatened about telling about the bullying…. By one student that was three years older than our Son was…& The school decided that was none of my business until my child fought back. At the time apparently, my child was more afraid of the bully than he was of me, and in my opinion, it was not the schools place to keep that from me.

Had I have known, I was more than capable of having a somewhat civil but very honest conversation with the bullies parents….& I could’ve ended this bullying for not only my son, but for many many many other children. The fact that the school wanted to avoid an issue with many many parents about the bullying situation, so they took it upon themselves to make sure that it continued for years… with one problem child doing the bullying… I really did not appreciate.

As a bullied kid myself, I'm sorry for your son. The one time I got really beaten up by kids in my school, I wouldn't have said a word to my dad about it, except there were real bruises and my brother told him. Sadly the father of one of the other kids only laughed at my dad, so...

But in the end, this isn't the same thing as what trans kids experience so in all honesty I can't equate the two, Ron. Again, there was little chance you'd bully, disgrace, disown or torment your own son for being bullied.

There's a chance that trans kids will get that treatment from their parents if they find out.

 

[Twin_Moose]

We don’t have kids that are not already adults now. They’re all in their 30’s now, so we’re not directly in this issue now but we do have five grandchildren at this point.

Thinking back to when we had school aged children of our own though, I only had one encounter with the school where they though I as a parent didn’t need to know about something that I REALLY should have know about sooner.

Our Son in public school was being bullied (and many many other students at the same time by the same child) by another child three years older than him. I found out about this the day he had enough and fought back….took this other child (who was in grade 7 while our Son was in grade 4) and put the boots to him until a “playground supervisor” pulled him off.

Now the school finally contacts me to tell me that “perhaps I should seek anger management for our Son” ??? I was blown away….and as they explained what was happening (the bullying by many many by the same student for years)…I asked for a meeting that day with the school’s principal. Our son had never mentioned what was going on at the school before this date & had not mentioned what it happened that day, even until I already knew about it, and confronted him about it.

No kid wants to be “the Rat” and the threats of this older student towards him, and many many other students kept him quiet. The school knew what was going on, but they said nothing.

My meeting was at 4:30 PM and when I was allowed in to meet with the principal, there was also a police officer there…to protect the principal…. From me? Seriously. I was an upset parent because of the circumstances but I was by no means threatening or a threat. That was an eye-opener. The principal treated the meeting as a political situation, and nothing to do with the well-being or safety of the students….

The fact that this older student was bullying and beating up many many many children FOR YEARS…. And the school was well aware of it… and the children were threatened by this older student, but if they said anything to anybody, they would get it worse…. Until our son snapped And fight back and won more than decisively, the school did not create an awareness about this whatsoever with us as parents. I was pretty pissed. I can understand the anger and frustration of the parents above being cut out of their child’s physical and mental welfare by the school system.

(This is gonna date things, but the police officer that was present for the meeting between myself and the principal, he had a shaved head and wraparound sunglasses that he wore indoors throughout the entire meeting… and he refused to sit down, or speak, and he kept positioning himself behind me while I sat… with his arms crossed so that he can try and pump up the appearance of his biceps. It was a pure outright failure of an attempt to intimidate me. I’m over 6 feet tall and this officer was about 4 inches taller than I was and a decade younger. I’m sure this was no accident. That was such a bullshit move)

Interesting the principal tried bullying you while you were in a meeting about your son being bullied. It wasn't his son by chance

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

If the school wants to take the position of not telling the parents what the kid wants, they also should take the position that they aren't going to do anything to support or help the kid (or discourage or hinder either) with the transition. Completely hands off. Once they get their hands dirty, they can't justify the position of not telling the parents. Once the kid is of legal age (usually 18 but courts can declare it for 16 year olds) then there is no responsibility for informing the parents.

 

[Serryah]

If the school wants to take the position of not telling the parents what the kid wants, they also should take the position that they aren't going to do anything to support or help the kid (or discourage or hinder either) with the transition. Completely hands off. Once they get their hands dirty, they can't justify the position of not telling the parents. Once the kid is of legal age (usually 18 but courts can declare it for 16 year olds) then there is no responsibility for informing the parents.

It's one thing to not tell parents about the status of a trans kid's request for gender acknowledgement.

If they do anything else (except maybe suggestion of professional counselling suggestions via the school councillor) they ARE stepping over their bounds. Schools shouldn't be stepping beyond protecting the kids in their charge.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Well first I'd ask the kids age, but overall?

Does it matter? They’re either adults or they’re not. If they’re adults, then they (the young adult decides. If they’re not adults, the parent is informed. In neither situation is the school deciding what a parent should or should know about their child.

I’ll admit that I recognize that I’m potentially bias based on the school withholding information from me that could have save our Son & many many others from further torment, and I realize that I was just one parent of many that where kept in the dark from that one bully for years I’m sure.

No, I can’t fathom punishing someone for being victimized. I sorry that other parent laughed at your Father, & sorry it seems that’s the end of that story for you. I didn’t get the opportunity to discuss our matter with the bullies parents, but I gladly would have. This is our Son with his little one now, & I’m confident I know how he’d handle a situation (gay or bullied child).

 

[petros]

A school's function is to teach. Thats it.

 

[Serryah]

Does it matter? They’re either adults or they’re not.

I guess it depends on the province you live in.

Age would matter as anyone under say, maybe ten to thirteen, I could see a push for parents to demand to know what's going on, but above thirteen, when they're starting to really know themselves? If a kid at fourteen wants to not have their parent know about their personal life, then that's their prerogative, wouldn't it be?

If they’re adults, then they (the young adult decides. If they’re not adults, the parent is informed. In neither situation is the school deciding what a parent should or should know about their child.

But it is deciding; it's deciding that despite what the kid may want, the parent is to know their kid is Trans. They're taking that choice away from the kid and in the end, might be putting that kid in danger.

Thing is I don't know what the answer really is for this situation. Because while I support Trans kids having the right to not have their parents know until THEY are ready to tell them, I can also see the opposing view that schools shouldn't be making decisions on behalf of the kid without parental input.

I’ll admit that I recognize that I’m potentially bias based on the school withholding information from me that could have save our Son & many many others from further torment, and I realize that I was just one parent of many that where kept in the dark from that one bully for years I’m sure.

Likely so and I'm sorry your family and others went through it. Bullying is horrible.

No, I can’t fathom punishing someone for being victimized. I sorry that other parent laughed at your Father, & sorry it seems that’s the end of that story for you.

The good part of the story is it made me stronger and realize the kind of person I am. I protected my brother - whom I told to run - and despite being beaten up, I still stood up to other bullies, including the local neighbourhood one. That kid had serious mental issues and anger issues. He was beating up a kid that lived across the street from us, and I stopped it. Of course he told his mother I was holding HIM back to be hurt and not the other way around. The kid he was beating on was a sweetheart and wouldn't hurt anyone. Then the next year we moved back to NB and I got different bullying there.

I didn’t get the opportunity to discuss our matter with the bullies parents, but I gladly would have. This is our Son with his little one now, & I’m confident I know how he’d handle a situation (gay or bullied child).
View attachment 16988

A freakin' adorable picture!

 

[pgs]

I guess it depends on the province you live in.

Age would matter as anyone under say, maybe ten to thirteen, I could see a push for parents to demand to know what's going on, but above thirteen, when they're starting to really know themselves? If a kid at fourteen wants to not have their parent know about their personal life, then that's their prerogative, wouldn't it be?



But it is deciding; it's deciding that despite what the kid may want, the parent is to know their kid is Trans. They're taking that choice away from the kid and in the end, might be putting that kid in danger.

Thing is I don't know what the answer really is for this situation. Because while I support Trans kids having the right to not have their parents know until THEY are ready to tell them, I can also see the opposing view that schools shouldn't be making decisions on behalf of the kid without parental input.



Likely so and I'm sorry your family and others went through it. Bullying is horrible.



The good part of the story is it made me stronger and realize the kind of person I am. I protected my brother - whom I told to run - and despite being beaten up, I still stood up to other bullies, including the local neighbourhood one. That kid had serious mental issues and anger issues. He was beating up a kid that lived across the street from us, and I stopped it. Of course he told his mother I was holding HIM back to be hurt and not the other way around. The kid he was beating on was a sweetheart and wouldn't hurt anyone. Then the next year we moved back to NB and I got different bullying there.



A freakin' adorable picture!

Should schools tell the parents if they catch students drinking or consuming other mind altering substances ?

 

[The_Foxer]

A lucky kid. When I came out to my mom, her first reaction was the typical "What did we do wrong?" Then seek answers for blame for herself. She finally got past it though and was okay.

Soooooo - she DIDN"T murder you then. Interesting.

But it is deciding; it's deciding that despite what the kid may want, the parent is to know their kid is Trans.

No, it's not 'deciding that. It's recognizing the human and legal right of a parent and guardian to their child - something that almost every single culture in history and around the world has recognized. Parents are the guardians of their children till they're old enough to make those decisions themselves.

They're taking that choice away from the kid and in the end, might be putting that kid in danger.

Ahhhh always with the 'danger' lie. Did you find that study we talked about? No? Well there you go - there's no danger. Its just an excuse the lefties use to justify their child abuse. And the decisions about health and welfare are NOT the child's to make alone. That's why they have guardians.

This is LITERALLY how your world works:

Child: Daddy I want to eat candy for breakfast!
Father: no, that's not good for you and you're too young to make that choice.
Child: Daddy, i want to stay up till midnite watching tv on weeknights
Father: no, that's not good for you and you're too young to make that choice.
Child: Daddy, i don't want to ever shower.
Father: no, that's not good for you and you're too young to make that choice.

Child: Daddy - i want to make life altering decisions which are complex and irreversible about my sexuality before i've even hit puberty or know anything about what my sexuality is.

Daddy: Good lord you don't need to talk to ME about that. Your teacher will help you. But if you want to sure, that's your decision to make, you're totally mature enough for THAT.