Toronto Belongs To The Indians

[dumpthemonarchy]

Indians moved around from place to place over the past several thousand years in Canada. How can one band prove over other bands, that one parcel of land belongs to them and not someone else? Because the British offered it to them?

They need to dig up some scientific archeological evidence to definitively prove their claim. Tough to do, but that only seems fair. Otherwise, how we be sure one band resided in a specific location, and not somewhere else?

 

[pgs]

Coastal tribes here in B.C. were more stable.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Coastal tribes here in B.C. were more stable.

Possibly. Tribes in BC might have been more stable, but you have to show it.

But how can you be sure that a claim today is really true? We could be giving the land to the wrong tribe, and then we have to go back to the courts. The cycle could be endless.

 

[Spade]

I thought Cleveland belonged to the Indians and Washington to the Redskins.

 

[Cliffy]

Thank goodness that the residential schools taught the red man how to be just like the white man. (But some white folk are still pissed off. Ya just can't please some people.)

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Thank goodness that the residential schools taught the red man how to be just like the white man. (But some white folk are still pissed off. Ya just can't please some people.)

That is the thing about a democracy, we try to fix what is wrong, not sweep it under the carpet and forget about it. Not too long ago people had intense feelings about religion and thought others should be like them, now that feeling has faded.

I read in Michael Ignatieff's book that Canadians thought Indians could not be Canadians unless they lost their Indianness, that is not the feeling anymore. Indians are in a bit of a twilight zone, they are ignored more by the general public and govt is more benign. Once you lose an opposing force, things change. Like the US losing the USSR, you wonder what your new goals should be.

 

[CDNBear]

Indians moved around from place to place over the past several thousand years in Canada. How can one band prove over other bands, that one parcel of land belongs to them and not someone else?

Because we were mapped and negotiated with over territories, when the Europeans arrived.

Because the British offered it to them?

That too. Land grants due to service to the Crown.

They need to dig up some scientific archeological evidence to definitively prove their claim. Tough to do, but that only seems fair. Otherwise, how we be sure one band resided in a specific location, and not somewhere else?[/quote]The Church was awesome at keeping records of their encounters with indigenous peoples. So where the first Europeans. Cartier, Raleigh, Cabot. All recorded their encounters and where.

Possibly. Tribes in BC might have been more stable, but you have to show it.

8O...The Six Nations was as stable as it got.

But how can you be sure that a claim today is really true? We could be giving the land to the wrong tribe, and then we have to go back to the courts. The cycle could be endless.

Could be, in BC anyways.

 

[CDNBear]

bigoted moron - right back at you

Wow, those are some pretty harsh words from someone so cowardice, they couldn't even put their nic on them.

You gotta love the bravado shown by little angry men hiding behind a monitor...:lol:

 

[Niflmir]

I always thought it would be amusing if we just gave back Canada to the Natives. All at once. So there is no time to adjust.

Then again, anarchy holds a special place in my heart.

 

[CDNBear]

I always thought it would be amusing if we just gave back Canada to the Natives. All at once. So there is no time to adjust.

Then again, anarchy holds a special place in my heart.

And this why I don't support self gov't at this time...

We need to grow.

 

[Niflmir]

And this why I don't support self gov't at this time...

We need to grow.

It would happen with everyone. Power simply cannot be transferred in a day. Hmmm, I wonder what the greatest number of MP turnovers in one election was...

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Because we were mapped and negotiated with over territories, when the Europeans arrived.

That too. Land grants due to service to the Crown.

They need to dig up some scientific archeological evidence to definitively prove their claim. Tough to do, but that only seems fair. Otherwise, how we be sure one band resided in a specific location, and not somewhere else?

The Church was awesome at keeping records of their encounters with indigenous peoples. So where the first Europeans. Cartier, Raleigh, Cabot. All recorded their encounters and where.

8O...The Six Nations was as stable as it got.

Could be, in BC anyways.[/quote]

It always relies on Westerners keeping the records for people who did not have records of where they roamed. Aboriginals want land to be collective/communal/tribally owned, not to be on the market. This violates principles of equality built up over the last several hundred years. Poor men couldn't own land, then women couldn't own land, then blacks couldn't own land, Indians couldn't own land. For land, replace with voting and citizenship and now everyone has these rights. This is called progress, how civilization advances. Nothing should be done to stop this.

Aboriginal land claims are a holdover from a previous age which has deteriorated into corruption.

 

[Cliffy]

It always relies on Westerners keeping the records for people who did not have records of where they roamed. Aboriginals want land to be collective/communal/tribally owned, not to be on the market. This violates principles of equality built up over the last several hundred years. Poor men couldn't own land, then women couldn't own land, then blacks couldn't own land, Indians couldn't own land. For land, replace with voting and citizenship and now everyone has these rights. This is called progress, how civilization advances. Nothing should be done to stop this.

Aboriginal land claims are a holdover from a previous age which has deteriorated into corruption.

And civilization is not corrupt! Civilizations rise and fall because of corruption and ours is disintegrating. We cannot sustain this civilization because it has no connection to reality, is completely disconnected from the natural world. It only sees it as a storehouse of resources to be exploited and that attitude is unsustainable. We look down on societies that did not believe in our rape and pillage capitalist endeavors, but it will be our system that will be our undoing. We need to find a way to integrate both the aboriginal view and our view to become sustainable or go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

And civilization is not corrupt! Civilizations rise and fall because of corruption and ours is disintegrating. We cannot sustain this civilization because it has no connection to reality, is completely disconnected from the natural world. It only sees it as a storehouse of resources to be exploited and that attitude is unsustainable. We look down on societies that did not believe in our rape and pillage capitalist endeavors, but it will be our system that will be our undoing. We need to find a way to integrate both the aboriginal view and our view to become sustainable or go the way of the dinosaur.

There's no perfect system. Aboriginals are no closer to nature than anybody else, or us today. Aboriginals had crime, war, violence and plunder like everyone else. They wasted their resources. They had conflicts before Europeans came here.

Most of the world's societies have been more aboriginal than Western. But that doesn't mean we should give up and regress. Give up democracy? Give up equality?

 

[Cliffy]

There's no perfect system. Aboriginals are no closer to nature than anybody else, or us today. Aboriginals had crime, war, violence and plunder like everyone else. They wasted their resources. They had conflicts before Europeans came here.

Most of the world's societies have been more aboriginal than Western. But that doesn't mean we should give up and regress. Give up democracy? Give up equality?

Your lack of understanding is blinding. Most of the conflicts were caused by displacement from colonization. Just because they didn't use resources the way we do doesn't mean they wasted them. And Please! Democracy and equality? I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Your lack of understanding is blinding. Most of the conflicts were caused by displacement from colonization. Just because they didn't use resources the way we do doesn't mean they wasted them. And Please! Democracy and equality? I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

We don't have many problems with aboriginals in Canada today. A protest here and there. The colonization process is over, we are not governed by any foreign power in Canada.

Every group of people wastes resources, they use as much as they can technically take advantage of to live and enjoy their lives. There's no point having an idealistic view of aboriginal or pre-modern societies, they all had their virtues and flaws. Life's not perfect, but there's no going back.

 

[gerryh]

Your lack of understanding is blinding. Most of the conflicts were caused by displacement from colonization. Just because they didn't use resources the way we do doesn't mean they wasted them. And Please! Democracy and equality? I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

Bulsh*t.... how about YOU take your f*ckin blinders off and really take a look.

 

[Cliffy]

Bulsh*t.... how about YOU take your f*ckin blinders off and really take a look.

Nice articulate statement, but what is it that you want to say gerry? What do you know of life here before colonization? What precisely is it that you want me to look at? I've been studying anthropological and archaeological reports from various sources, books on history and records of early missionaries and fur traders. I know life wasn't ideal but if you look at the end product of their occupation you will see plenty of game, fish, old growth forests - a thousand times more than we have today.

But, hey if you prefer to shout profanities than to discuss the topic, fine. Suit yourself.

 

[AnnaG]

"Toronto Belongs To The Indians" but no-one in their rational mind would want it. lol

 

[taxslave]

The reason that land claims cover about 150% of B.C. is that white lawyers are getting taxpayer money to represent indians. They have zero incentive to settle.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, not all First Nations have access to free education. Only those on-reserve do. And owing to the restrictions on-reserve, there is not much opportunity for advancement. So in reality, only some First Nations actually benefit from free education

Not true. My daughter in law lives off res and is entitled to free money for education. She also gets free medical and dental but my son has to pay for him and the kids. This is because my father did not want to get a status card when it was easier. This is called equality.
Can anyone imagine what would happen in Europe if our retarded court decisions were applied there. Some parts of Germany and France must have been over run and ruled by half a dozen different tribes by now so who are the rightfull land owners?