Toronto Belongs To The Indians

[Trex]

I always thought it would be amusing if we just gave back Canada to the Natives. All at once. So there is no time to adjust.

Then again, anarchy holds a special place in my heart.

Me too.
But you have to wonder about the practicality of it all.

Back to the topic at hand.
How about we all agree that Indigenous Peoples ruled the entire planet once.
That was then and this is now.
I think.
Because now, here, where I live am I not Indigenous?
And a DNA analysis of my own groupings shows old Indigenous Peoples traits and lines ( Ohhh, what a shocker).

How a bout a big group hug.
Honor all of our treaties and agreements to the best of our abilities.
And move the hell on.
Enabling and entitlement is nothing but a societal rathole.

Trex

 

[ironsides]

When should we give back the world to the Neanderthals? Civilizations come and go, the world belongs to those who can survive in it. The Indians have found out how to survive, they for the most part have adapted to our world. Stop all this crying about what we did or how we became who we are. We are what we are and nothing will ever change that.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Hmmm...some interesting points here.

Aren't we all Indigenous People? Indigenous to this planet anyway.
Aren't we all immigrants also to the North American Continent?

If Mankind evolved, and then walked out of Africa (current belief),
only a small portion of Humans alive today may not be immigrants
to a new land. The Kangaroo evolved on the Continent of Australia
and would be called Indigenous to Australia. All Humans in North
America don't fit the definition of Indigenous as that 'Roo above does
to Australia. Does the term "Indigenous" truly fit into this discussion?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Maybe I'm a dim bulb, but I don't see where the Thread Statement or the
Treaties that tie this situation together have anything to do with the term
"Indigenous," but everything to do with the term "Economics."

If it wasn't deemed economically advantageous (at least at the time) for the
Treaties (...call them a contract with contract obligations...) to be
entered into, they wouldn't have been entered into at all. The party of the
first part promises the party of the second part.....in exchange for......

At that time Heath Care may have meant a Doctor who had a total of six
medications in his bag along with a sharp knife and a bone saw; and the
promise of an Education meant some extra desks in the one room school
house that taught grades one through twelve. These (& others) where
affordable promises that where economically advantageous to both sides
(more so to the party of the first part initially, but more so to the party of the
second part eventually) as long as both sides live up to their contractual
obligations set forth in the contract. Renege on the contract and forfeit
what the contract entitled each party to, and everybody loses, or honor the
contract and carry on. Those are the two choices that we as a people (all of
us) face, and that is really no choice at all.

Entering into a contract with a duration of, "As long as the Sun rises and the
Rivers flow" (or however it was worded) seems absolutely insane at this point,
but it happened....we're obligated.


"Toronto Belongs to the Indians?" What do we as a society that have entered
into this Contract (Treaties) do to have both Parties satisfied with the outcome?
I have no idea but doing nothing isn't an answer, and surrendering the city of
Toronto in its entirety (or 150% of B.C....etc...) from one party to the other just
isn't going to happen. Is there some kind of middle gound? I've no idea, but we
are going to need to find one that is sustainable to both parties or it just isn't
going to work, as killing the Goose to get all the eggs at once that it would have
ever produced doesn't work.

 

[AnnaG]

When should we give back the world to the Neanderthals? Civilizations come and go, the world belongs to those who can survive in it. The Indians have found out how to survive, they for the most part have adapted to our world. Stop all this crying about what we did or how we became who we are. We are what we are and nothing will ever change that.

No, there nis nothing we can do about the past. However we CAN do stuff about the future if we have the attitude to want to be better people. The status quo doesn't cut it.

 

[AnnaG]

Hmmm...some interesting points here.

Aren't we all Indigenous People? Indigenous to this planet anyway.
Aren't we all immigrants also to the North American Continent?

If Mankind evolved, and then walked out of Africa (current belief),
only a small portion of Humans alive today may not be immigrants
to a new land. The Kangaroo evolved on the Continent of Australia
and would be called Indigenous to Australia. All Humans in North
America don't fit the definition of Indigenous as that 'Roo above does
to Australia. Does the term "Indigenous" truly fit into this discussion?

Um, our branch of the genus homo that evolved out of Africa. Other branches evolved from other parts of the world; homo erectus in Asia and Neanderthal in Europe and Australopithecus also evolved in Africa but the two of us diverged.
Just a little physical anthropology lesson.

 

[AnnaG]

Maybe I'm a dim bulb, but I don't see where the Thread Statement or the
Treaties that tie this situation together have anything to do with the term
"Indigenous," but everything to do with the term "Economics."

If it wasn't deemed economically advantageous (at least at the time) for the
Treaties (...call them a contract with contract obligations...) to be
entered into, they wouldn't have been entered into at all. The party of the
first part promises the party of the second part.....in exchange for......

At that time Heath Care may have meant a Doctor who had a total of six
medications in his bag along with a sharp knife and a bone saw; and the
promise of an Education meant some extra desks in the one room school
house that taught grades one through twelve. These (& others) where
affordable promises that where economically advantageous to both sides
(more so to the party of the first part initially, but more so to the party of the
second part eventually) as long as both sides live up to their contractual
obligations set forth in the contract. Renege on the contract and forfeit
what the contract entitled each party to, and everybody loses, or honor the
contract and carry on. Those are the two choices that we as a people (all of
us) face, and that is really no choice at all.

Entering into a contract with a duration of, "As long as the Sun rises and the
Rivers flow" (or however it was worded) seems absolutely insane at this point,
but it happened....we're obligated.


"Toronto Belongs to the Indians?" What do we as a society that have entered
into this Contract (Treaties) do to have both Parties satisfied with the outcome?
I have no idea but doing nothing isn't an answer, and surrendering the city of
Toronto in its entirety (or 150% of B.C....etc...) from one party to the other just
isn't going to happen. Is there some kind of middle gound? I've no idea, but we
are going to need to find one that is sustainable to both parties or it just isn't
going to work, as killing the Goose to get all the eggs at once that it would have
ever produced doesn't work.

Bump.

 

[ironsides]

It is Ok with me, give Toronto back to the Indians. We can then by it from them for some beads and pieces of metal.

 

[AnnaG]

It is Ok with me, give Toronto back to the Indians. We can then by it from them for some beads and pieces of metal.

I'll trade you TO for a set of tires for my garden tractor and a couple climbing rose plants.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Beads & pieces of metal? Firewater and buttons? Been there, done that.

The contract is between two parties. If the contract is voided, and what was
gained by one party is surrendered, then what was gained by the other is
also surrendered....and there in lies the rub.

Both would be assessed in today's dollars (today's medium of beads &
buttons), and neither party would be willing to do so, thus another
solution sustainable and satisfactory to both parties must be found.

 

[karrie]

It is Ok with me, give Toronto back to the Indians. We can then by it from them for some beads and pieces of metal.

lol... my aunt was having a dispute with the government over a highway twinning project, and when the government man was stomping out declaring that she would not be getting the settlement she wanted, or the utilities reinstalled the way she wanted, she said to his retreating back "Fine, but don't forget my blankets, beads and copper pots when you come back!"

She got everything she wanted without any further discussions. lol.

 

[Trex]

Um, our branch of the genus homo that evolved out of Africa. Other branches evolved from other parts of the world; homo erectus in Asia and Neanderthal in Europe and Australopithecus also evolved in Africa but the two of us diverged.
Just a little physical anthropology lesson.

Actually your incorrect Anna.
And Ron is pretty much on the right track.

All of mankind's predecessors and offshoots originally evolved in Africa.
All of the homonins came out of Africa.
The genus homo refers to homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, and a pack of others including homo sapiens.
These offshoots of the genus homo were considered the true humans.
Some of the subsequent branching and offshoots occurring in the homo line happened both in and out of Africa.
Interbreeding between the lines is becoming a more accepted opinion thus the
sapiens group (us) is now assumed to be interbred with neanderthals.
Probably explains why guys still enjoy farting and belching in public.
In any case we are all Africans.
Skin color and traits like eye coloration resulted from extended selection for climatic
conditions and interbreeding(or the lack of).

Trex

 

[AnnaG]

Actually your incorrect Anna.
And Ron is pretty much on the right track.

All of mankind's predecessors and offshoots originally evolved in Africa.
All of the homonins came out of Africa.
The genus homo refers to homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, and a pack of others including homo sapiens.
These offshoots of the genus homo were considered the true humans.
Some of the subsequent branching and offshoots occurring in the homo line happened both in and out of Africa.
Interbreeding between the lines is becoming a more accepted opinion thus the
sapiens group (us) is now assumed to be interbred with neanderthals.
Probably explains why guys still enjoy farting and belching in public.
In any case we are all Africans.
Skin color and traits like eye coloration resulted from extended selection for climatic
conditions and interbreeding(or the lack of).

Trex

Well, according to the evidence, yes, that's the theory. My mistake. But we are not all Africans. We are only descended from Africans.
Seeing as we are being picky, it's you're, not your; homoniDS not homoniNs.
I am well aware of what the genus homo refers to, thanks, and there were possibles before homos (lol): Ardipithocus, Orrorin, the Australopithecus lines, the Paranthropus lines, Ardipithecus, for instance. (Had to dig out and dust off Anthro text from our library for that).

 

[AnnaG]

lol... my aunt was having a dispute with the government over a highway twinning project, and when the government man was stomping out declaring that she would not be getting the settlement she wanted, or the utilities reinstalled the way she wanted, she said to his retreating back "Fine, but don't forget my blankets, beads and copper pots when you come back!"

She got everything she wanted without any further discussions. lol.

lol
I've heard similar stories.
We have a neighbor from Spain who moved a mobile home onto a portion of his property with intentions of renting it out. Our regional district caught wind and sent some bozo out to harass Xavier. The guy told Xavier he needed a permit to move the mobile home. Xavier said basically he didn't need the permit to move it because the mobile home was now where he wanted it. The RD bozo then said he need other permits. Xavier asked the guy if he paid for all these permits and crap what the regional district would do. The guy said "nothing". Xavier said if the RD wasn't going to plumb the place, wire it, or anything to earn the money, they weren't getting any. The guy left and Xavier went about fixing the place up and rent it out. He did later get the RD to inspect it at the going rate ($35 I think it was at the time).
Good policy, IMO.

 

[Trex]

Well, according to the evidence, yes, that's the theory. My mistake. But we are not all Africans. We are only descended from Africans.
Seeing as we are being picky, it's you're, not your; homoniDS not homoniNs.
I am well aware of what the genus homo refers to, thanks, and there were possibles before homos (lol): Ardipithocus, Orrorin, the Australopithecus lines, the Paranthropus lines, Ardipithecus, for instance. (Had to dig out and dust off Anthro text from our library for that).

Well, thanks for spell checking for me.
And if you keep at it you will without question find many more.
And once again you and your anthro text are in error.
I did not mean homoNIDS as I am well aware of what that term means,
what I meant was homININS.
Granted another slight spelling mistake.
Dust off that anthro text once more.
My basic statement stands.
Further I am well aware that we do not all hold African passports or citizenship papers.
That statement was merely meant to reflect that originally we are all brothers regardless of skin color,politics or religion.

quote"
Discovery of Early Hominins


The immediate ancestors of humans were members of the genus Australopithecus . The australopithecines (or australopiths) were intermediate between apes and people. However, both australopithecines and humans are biologically similar enough to be classified as members of the same biological tribe--the Hominini . All people, past and present, along with the australopithecines are hominins . We share in common not only the fact that we evolved from the same ape ancestors in Africa but that both genera are habitually bipedal , or two-footed, upright walkers. By comparison, chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas are primarily quadrupedal , or four-footed.
unquote"

Trex

 

[Unforgiven]

Well, thanks for spell checking for me.
And if you keep at it you will without question find many more.
And once again you and your anthro text are in error.
I did not mean homoNIDS as I am well aware of what that term means,
what I meant was homININS.
Granted another slight spelling mistake.
Dust off that anthro text once more.
My basic statement stands.
Further I am well aware that we do not all hold African passports or citizenship papers.
That statement was merely meant to reflect that originally we are all brothers regardless of skin color,politics or religion.

quote"
Discovery of Early Hominins


The immediate ancestors of humans were members of the genus Australopithecus . The australopithecines (or australopiths) were intermediate between apes and people. However, both australopithecines and humans are biologically similar enough to be classified as members of the same biological tribe--the Hominini . All people, past and present, along with the australopithecines are hominins . We share in common not only the fact that we evolved from the same ape ancestors in Africa but that both genera are habitually bipedal , or two-footed, upright walkers. By comparison, chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas are primarily quadrupedal , or four-footed.
unquote"

Trex

While I agree with what you say here, I would like to point out that some members of this site are clearly Neanderthal. :wave:

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Entering into a contract with a duration of, "As long as the Sun rises and the Rivers flow" (or however it was worded) seems absolutely insane at this point,
but it happened....we're obligated.

Very poetic. At a time when life changed slowly for Indians and everyone else.

Fact is, a sovereign nation is not forever bound to any contract. If it was, it wouldn't be a sovereign nation. Just like with extradition treaties, we can tell countries, sorry, we're not sending the prisoner to you, he may be executed. A nation is completely right in doing this even though it said it would by signing a treaty.

No treaty or contract is sacred or eternal in our secular world. Like we feel bound by what our parents or grandparents do or did. Be practical.

 

[CDNBear]

Fact is, a sovereign nation is not forever bound to any contract. If it was, it wouldn't be a sovereign nation. Just like with extradition treaties, we can tell countries, sorry, we're not sending the prisoner to you, he may be executed. A nation is completely right in doing this even though it said it would by signing a treaty.

This is true. Unfortunately Canada has stated, and reafirmed sevral times in many contracts, that it will up hold its obligations. Then of course we have the legal rulings as well.

No treaty or contract is sacred or eternal in our secular world. Like we feel bound by what our parents or grandparents do or did. Be practical.

Again, you are correct. But nullifying contracts, have a price.

 

[AnnaG]

Well, thanks for spell checking for me.

You're welcome.

And if you keep at it you will without question find many more.

Oh, well. lol Everyone makes mistakes.

And once again you and your anthro text are in error.
I did not mean homoNIDS as I am well aware of what that term means,
what I meant was homININS.
Granted another slight spelling mistake.

Well, homonins is as close to homonids as it is to hominins. There is only one letter in either version that varies from the word.
But, anyway, being nitpicky is being nitpicky. My original comment was correct (there were australopithecines in Africa, erectus in Asia, and neanderthalensis in Europe, but I had not gone back far enough. You pointed that out and I admitted my error.

Dust off that anthro text once more.
My basic statement stands.

*shrugs*

Further I am well aware that we do not all hold African passports or citizenship papers.
That statement was merely meant to reflect that originally we are all brothers regardless of skin color,politics or religion.

Pretty much, yup. As far as geneticists are concerned there is only one race concerning humans. I am content with that, although sometimes I am convinced that there are still two existing branches of homo sapiens and possibly 3. lol

 

[Lou Garu]

Key deal to be OK'd today - Brantford Expositor - Ontario, CA

Does this look to have any promise guys?