Tolerance

Tecumsehsbones

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Inside Britain’s big, dumb halal pizza scandal

Hmmm. . . if Westerners are as tolerant as some folk hereabouts like to claim, why are they organising boycotts of chains that use halal meat? A body might think "tolerant" would be "I won't eat there, but they can do as they please."

"That turns out not to be the case."
--Captain Lord Roderick Blaine, The Mote in God's Eye
 

Sal

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Inside Britain’s big, dumb halal pizza scandal

Hmmm. . . if Westerners are as tolerant as some folk hereabouts like to claim, why are they organising boycotts of chains that use halal meat? A body might think "tolerant" would be "I won't eat there, but they can do as they please."

"That turns out not to be the case."
--Captain Lord Roderick Blaine, The Mote in God's Eye

some are intolerant and others are upset due to the cruelty involved in the slaughter AND the fact that once again people have been eating food which has been prepared in a way that they were unaware of.

I want to know what I am eating so that I make the choice. I do not eat deli meat because it is not the best choice to make from a health perspective (for me). I get to make the choice.

As for the Christian country and they don't want to eat Muslim food...it is fear and until people can be reassured there is no need for that fear there will be intolerance.

Should they be afraid? I don't know.
 

Sal

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That's pretty much what I said.
yup...same page

my big question would be, is there a need for fear...I am not 100% convinced that there is no need for fear...but then I have friends who refused to war hijabs let alone burkas and there have been "consequences".
 

DaSleeper

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some are intolerant and others are upset due to the cruelty involved in the slaughter AND the fact that once again people have been eating food which has been prepared in a way that they were unaware of.

I want to know what I am eating so that I make the choice. I do not eat deli meat because it is not the best choice to make from a health perspective (for me). I get to make the choice.

As for the Christian country and they don't want to eat Muslim food...it is fear and until people can be reassured there is no need for that fear there will be intolerance.

Should they be afraid? I don't know.
You had my vote until I got to your usual rant against Christians.....
 

Sal

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You had my vote until I got to your usual rant against Christians.....
that is in the article so I commented on it...*shrug*

and it is also the reason for the fear...

did you not read the article?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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that is in the article so I commented on it...*shrug*

and it is also the reason for the fear...

did you not read the article?
Surely you jest.

yup...same page

my big question would be, is there a need for fear...I am not 100% convinced that there is no need for fear...but then I have friends who refused to war hijabs let alone burkas and there have been "consequences".
To use violence against women as a reason to oppose Muslim dietary restrictions is exactly the same thing as using boy-raping priests as a reason to oppose Lenten restrictions.
 

Sal

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To use violence against women as a reason to oppose Muslim dietary restrictions is exactly the same thing as using boy-raping priests as a reason to oppose Lenten restrictions.

Okay, point taken. Here' my line of thought on it. I don't care about them using Halal chicken. In Britain they are claiming only 12% of the poultry is not stunned before the bleed out. If true they are likely killing in a more humane manner than many other countries. The 12% can be worked on.

The fear is not about eating the chicken or violence against women although that is a part of the larger picture. They are just afraid of the old fallacy give an inch take a mile.

So my question would be, is that fear valid. If not address that. If it is...well, then there is another problem.

this isn't about the meat, it's about fear...I don't think people are so tolerant... I am tolerant only up until my level of tolerance allows you to take away my freedom. Right now under the Christian regime, I feel pretty free.

Just putting that out there.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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The single word "Christian" is mentioned "once" in the article.......
Which puts you in an excellent position to attempt to ignore the fact that the UK is officially a Christian country.

Okay, point taken. Here' my line of thought on it. I don't care about them using Halal chicken. In Britain they are claiming only 12% of the poultry is not stunned before the bleed out. If true they are likely killing in a more humane manner than many other countries. The 12% can be worked on.
Agreed.

The fear is not about eating the chicken or violence against women although that is a part of the larger picture. They are just afraid of the old fallacy give an inch take a mile.

So my question would be, is that fear valid. If not address that. If it is...well, then there is another problem.
No, it isn't. There is no necessary correlation between religion and oppression.

[/quote]this isn't about the meat, it's about fear...I don't think people are so tolerant... I am tolerant only up until my level of tolerance allows you to take away my freedom. Right now under the Christian regime, I feel pretty free.

Just putting that out there.[/QUOTE]
At the moment, I do too. Not so much 40 years ago in the Indian school.
 

captain morgan

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Inside Britain’s big, dumb halal pizza scandal

Hmmm. . . if Westerners are as tolerant as some folk hereabouts like to claim, why are they organising boycotts of chains that use halal meat? A body might think "tolerant" would be "I won't eat there, but they can do as they please."

I believe that this issues goes much deeper than simple unjustified intolerance.

There is a backlash in a number of European nations directed at Muslims and the common theme relates to a lack of integration and acceptance (read; respect in general) of the mores and customs in their new home.

It's really not surprising to observe this trend
 

Spade

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Let's see you compare "tolerance" ...between Christian countries.... and muslim counties.......

You mean like Northern Ireland, Nazi Germany, Austria, Hungary, Serbia, the Ukraine, Croatia, Slovenia, Vichy France, the Good ole USA, Russia, South Africa, Rhodesia, ...
PS
No mention of Canada because we've been truthed and reconciled.

I believe that this issues goes much deeper than simple unjustified intolerance.

There is a backlash in a number of European nations directed at Muslims and the common theme relates to a lack of integration and acceptance (read; respect in general) of the mores and customs in their new home.

It's really not surprising to observe this trend


But, like you, the thoughtful man contemns it.
 

Sal

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No, it isn't. There is no necessary correlation between religion and oppression
If true how do you explain the lack of tolerance for women, the need to cover them, the need to measure the size of the stick for hitting...the blame if they are raped, the stoning if caught in an adulterous relationship...the attitude of our resident ":don't eat pork person"?

If it is not the religion, then what?

At the moment, I do too. Not so much 40 years ago in the Indian school.
point taken, it has not always been so...however this country and others in Europe have reached this level of tolerance under the Christian system no?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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If true how do you explain the lack of tolerance for women, the need to cover them, the need to measure the size of the stick for hitting...the blame if they are raped, the stoning if caught in an adulterous relationship...the attitude of our resident ":don't eat pork person"?

If it is not the religion, then what?
I would say the culture. Non-Muslim religions in the Middle East are also not particularly well-known for granting equality to women. A male Orthodox Jew will not touch a woman who is not his wife, sister, or daughter. Not even to shake hands.

I suspect that the main reason Christianity is ahead of many other religions in how it treats women is because Christianity spread to countries where women were treated better by the local cultures, northern Europe in this case. Religion affects culture, but guess what? Culture affects religion too.

point taken, it has not always been so...however this country and others in Europe have reached this level of tolerance under the Christian system no?
Part of it is what I said up thar, and another part is that the general recent history of the West has been the professional and middle classes agitating for more power in societies controlled by the aristocracy. So when they get that, it serves as an example to the classes below them (including women and religious/racial/ethnic minorities) of how to improve their lot.

I call it Jefferson's Dilemma. How do you write that everyone is equal and has equal rights whilst holding slaves?