Time For Don Cherry To Give Up The Pro-War Talk

[dumpthemonarchy]

The Taliban supported and hid Al-Qaeda within Afghanistan, they stood between us and Al-Qaeda. Your the one who better read better.

The Taliban made a very big mistake protecting Al-qaeda and we kicked them out of power. Problem is, the Taliban are Muslims and the US-NATO-the West are not, therefore they are the enemy. All the aforementioned are the enemy in a very nasty civil war. Can we end a civil war there? No.

Time to use a little judgement here, the key is to set up a system that does not affect us. No system is perfect but I think the Taliban and Afhganis have learned a lesson that if they harbour militants who are intending to attack the west, they will likely clamp down on them. It might be in their best interest. They might not be totally stupid.

 

[ironsides]

Back to basics a little have the Taliban turned in Al-Qaeda yet, no. Is Al-Qaeda still running around in Taliban territory yes. Afghanistan never in recent times was a country in the sense we think of a country, just a bunch of local tribesmen fighting each other, growing and selling opium to the world. Just doing it in a strategic location. Not you personally, but does effect the world. I wish we would use a little judgment and end this, but not like the Russians did and just go. I would like to see their lands sterilized, let them have to move out of Afghanistan into countries that can discipline them. (make them civilized by any standard) These people destroy ancient art just because they can.

 

[JLM]

"Time For Don Cherry To Give Up The Pro-War Talk"- And all the other talk he does.:roll:

 

[Unforgiven]

God Bless Don Cherry

 

[earth_as_one]

The Taliban have not been evicted from Afghanistan. The job is not done. We support those best able to suite our goals. If its best for us we can assume that it will be best for them,.

Arrogance and ignorance is how Americans found themselves in this situation in the first place. I see not much has changed...

Let's recap what happened.

The Taliban never came to the US and attacked Americans. The US and their allies including Canada went to Afghanistan and attacked Afghans, including the Taliban. At the time the Taliban controlled most of Afghanistan and were fighting a civil war with the Northern Alliance. OBL and other people allegedly involved in 9/11 were hiding in Afghanistan. The US demanded the Taliban start another war with people who were their "guests" according to Pashtun culture and tradition. In that culture the "host" is responsible for the safety of their "guests". They are honor bound by this code to the death. Its a foreign concept to me too, but this tradition goes back for centuries and I understand that living in shame after violating this code would be far worse than an honorable death. The US ignored this code and arrogantly demanded the Taliban hand them over or face the consequences. The Taliban responded by requesting the US go through a formal extradition process and prove their guests were involved in 9/11 first. The US responded by threatening war. The Taliban offered to extradite people to a neutral country where they would stand trial. The US responded with war.

10 years of war later and what has been accomplished?

As you observed the Taliban are still in Afghanistan. 10 years from now the Taliban will still be in Afghanistan whether we are still there or not. The people involved in 9/11 have either moved out of Afghanistan or joined the Taliban. Afghanistan still hasn't held free and fair elections. We control the cities where we have soldiers, but as soon as they leave, control falls back to the Taliban or various warlords. Opium production is now at record levels after being nearly eliminated by the Taliban 10 years ago. Far more people in this region hate us now. Al Qaeda still exists. More terrorist attacks are likely. While a few more Americans can spell Afghanistan now and a some can even find it on a map, many Americans remain arrogant and ignorant.

This quote sounds like something a war criminal would say:

... I would like to see their lands sterilized, let them have to move out of Afghanistan into countries that can discipline them. (make them civilized by any standard)

IMO, the US should have accepted the Taliban's offer. We would have avoided a never ending war. The people behind 9/11 would be locked up. The chances of terrorist attacks in the US or one of its allies would be far less likely.

 

[Unforgiven]

Arrogance and ignorance is how Americans found themselves in this situation in the first place. I see not much has changed...

Bah the same can be said for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Let's recap what happened.

You seem to have replaced a few facts with falsehoods and lies of omission in order to firm up your obviously weak position.

The Taliban never came to the US and attacked Americans.

This is true.

The US and their allies including Canada went to Afghanistan and attacked Afghans, including the Taliban.

This is true.

At the time the Taliban controlled most of Afghanistan and were fighting a civil war with the Northern Alliance.

This is true.

OBL and other people allegedly involved in 9/11 were hiding in Afghanistan.

ObL admitted his own involvement in 9/11, that he funded and inspired it, the training of the people who did it and rejoiced in the civilian death toll of it. Along with the USS Cole and other terrorist acts against the US and it's allies.

The US demanded the Taliban start another war with people who were their "guests" according to Pashtun culture and tradition. In that culture the "host" is responsible for the safety of their "guests". They are honor bound by this code to the death.

Terrorists need to be brought to justice. Al Qeada is a terrorist organization which the Taliban welcomed into Afghanistan and Pakistan, helped them to set up training camps to export terrorism around the world. They aren't guests, like Aunt Mabel and Uncle Hank, they are radical fanatics training to kill civilians via terrorism. Anyone who is honour bound to provide safe haven and protect them from the country they terrorize deserve death. That's what the Taliban got. Now they hide behind scared villagers in Pakistan abusing them when the lights are out. They are scum.

Its a foreign concept to me too, but this tradition goes back for centuries and I understand that living in shame after violating this code would be far worse than an honorable death.

No it isn't. It's gangsterism masquerading as religion to hide it's nature and justify it's use. A wolf in sheeps clothing is no less a wolf. Honour has nothing at all to do with it.

The US ignored this code and arrogantly demanded the Taliban hand them over or face the consequences. The Taliban responded by requesting the US go through a formal extradition process and prove their guests were involved in 9/11 first. The US responded by threatening war. The Taliban offered to extradite people to a neutral country where they would stand trial. The US responded with war.

Wrong again. The Taliban attempted to secure time to allow ObL and a number of other terrorists to escape which Nato didn't accept. The Taliban were given an ultimatum to turn over the accused or face war with the Nato Allies. The Taliban chose what war and here we are. This is the way of terrorism.

10 years of war later and what has been accomplished?

Killed a whole lot of terrorists and their supporters. Over thrown the Taliban, a vicious and oppressive regime that hurt and terrorized all Afghani people. Brought the chance for democracy and prosperity to the Afghan door step for the people to accept or decline based on their own wishes.

As you observed the Taliban are still in Afghanistan.

Yeah, like the Klan is still int he US. Who cares about the Klan? They are a nonentity now.

10 years from now the Taliban will still be in Afghanistan whether we are still there or not. The people involved in 9/11 have either moved out of Afghanistan or joined the Taliban.

That is why killing Taliban ain't no thang. They're scum and deserve to die. So anything they hold is a rock pile.
they creep about at night and have no life other than hiding and denying they are Taliban outside the cave they meet in. Some honour, they know nothing of it.

Afghanistan still hasn't held free and fair elections. We control the cities where we have soldiers, but as soon as they leave, control falls back to the Taliban or various warlords.

Tribal culture is tribal culture. Compared to the developed world, some Afghans and all Taliban are Neanderthals.
They grunt, they squabble they hurt people but they aren't going anywhere. Afghanistan has been at war for over thirty years. They need to be occupied like Palestinians so they can become educated, develop a culture not based on fear and violence and as they raise the standard of living, so to will peace become established as the people gain something to live for.

Opium production is now at record levels after being nearly eliminated by the Taliban 10 years ago. Far more people in this region hate us now. Al Qaeda still exists. More terrorist attacks are likely. While a few more Americans can spell Afghanistan now and a some can even find it on a map, many Americans remain arrogant and ignorant.

Organized crime hates a vacuum. Once the Taliban were vanquished from running the Opium fields, farmers themselves who could no longer make a living jumped at the chance to make money from those who organized the drug trade. It's peanuts compared to the Cocaine or Cannabis markets here in the West but until there is a government to use the War On Drugs to fill the coffers, it's not going to just sit there. Al Qaeda had their day. Other groups have started that have no link to Al Qaeda other than someone knew a guy who knew a guy. Plenty Al Qaeda have taken the drop or been sent to find their 72 virgins are old and ugly blanket wearing cows who have a strict no touching policy. They are welcome to it.

This quote sounds like something a war criminal would say:

If you want to export terrorism you need to accept that the blow back might just be more than you want to experience. Don't go picking fights you can't win if you can't take the beating.

IMO, the US should have accepted the Taliban's offer. We would have avoided a never ending war. The people behind 9/11 would be locked up. The chances of terrorist attacks in the US or one of its allies would be far less likely.

There will always be someone who things they can get what they want through terrorism. You can find their foot prints in the dust and rubble that was the country they died in. They are very very lucky I am not the one giving order. I would set a whole new standard for war crimes.

 

[earth_as_one]

OBL's involvement in 9/11 has never been proven in a court of law. Until then, "alleged" is the correct word to use. Punishing someone "alleged" to have committed a crime isn't just, its a lynching. If Americans had proof that OBL and other people in Afghanistan were responsible for 9/11, then that supports my case that the US should have accepted the Taliban's offer to extradite people of interest to a neutral country for a fair trial.

You obviously have no respect for other cultures. You are just as arrogant and ignorant as the idiots who started the war in Afghanistan. You know little about the Taliban or Afghanistan and have no interest in enlightening yourself. People with attitudes like yours are why many Muslims and Arabs hate us.

Taliban's Ban On Poppy A Success, U.S. Aides Say
By BARBARA CROSSETTE
Published: May 20, 2001

UNITED NATIONS, May 18 — The first American narcotics experts to go to Afghanistan under Taliban rule have concluded that the movement's ban on opium-poppy cultivation appears to have wiped out the world's largest crop in less than a year, officials said today.

The American findings confirm earlier reports from the United Nations drug control program that Afghanistan, which supplied about three-quarters of the world's opium and most of the heroin reaching Europe, had ended poppy planting in one season...

Taliban's Ban On Poppy A Success, U.S. Aides Say - NYTimes.com

The nine principles of Pashtunwali

1. Melmastia (hospitality) - Showing hospitality and profound respect to all visitors, regardless of distinctions of race, religion, national affiliation as well as economic status and doing so without any hope of remuneration or favour. Pashtuns are widely considered to be the most hospitable people in the world and a Pashtun will go to great extents to show his hospitality.[4][14][15]

2. Nanawatai (asylum) - Derived from the verb meaning to go in, this is used for protection given to a person who requests protection against his/her enemies. The people are protected at all costs, in many cases even people running from the law must be given refuge until the situation is clarified.[4] It can also be used when the vanquished party is prepared to go in to the house of the victors and ask for their forgiveness. (Is a peculiar form of "chivalrous" surrender, in which an enemy seeks "sanctuary" at his enemy's house).

3. Badal (justice) - To seek justice or take revenge against the wrongdoer. This applies to injustices committed yesterday or 1000 years ago if the wrongdoer still exists. Justice in Pashtun lore needs elaborating: even a mere taunt (or "Paighor") is regarded as an insult - which can only usually be redressed by shedding of the taunter's blood (and if he isn't available, then his next closest male relation). This in turn leads to a blood feud that can last generations and involve whole tribes with the loss of hundreds of lives. Normally blood feuds in this all male dominated setup are then settled in a number of ways.[4]

4. Tureh (bravery) - A Pashtun must defend his land/property, family and women from incursions wherever he or she might reside. A Pashtun should always stand brave against tyranny and he should always be able to defend his property, family, women and the honour of his name. Death can follow if anyone mistreats these traits.[4]

5. Sabat (loyalty) - Loyalty must be paid to one's family, friends, and tribe members. Loyalty is a must and a Pashtun can never become disloyal as this would be utterly shameful towards themselves and their families.

6. Imandari (righteousness) - A Pashtun must always strive towards thinking good thoughts, speaking good words and doing other good deeds. Pashtuns must behave respectfully towards all creations including people, animals and the environment around them. Pollution of the environment or its destruction is against the Pashtunwali.[4]

7. Isteqamat - Trust in God (known as "Allah" in Arabic and "Khudai-ta-Allah" in Pashto).[4] The notion of trusting in the one Creator generally comports to Islamic idea of belief in only one God (tawheed).

8. Ghayrat (self honour or dignity) - Pashtuns must maintain their human dignity. Honour has great importance in Pashtun society and most other codes of life are aimed towards the preservation of one's honour or pride. They must respect themselves and others in order to be able to do so, especially those they do not know. Respect begins at home, among family members and relatives.[4]

9. Namus (Honor of women) - A Pashtun must defend the honor of Pashtun women at all costs and must protect them from vocal and physical harm.[4]

Pashtunwali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Casualties of the Afghan war:

Afghan Security Forces: 7,500+ killed
Afghan Northern Alliance:200 Killed

Coalition:
Killed: 2,234 (US: 1,395, UK: 352, Canada: 154, Others: 338 )
Wounded: 12,523+ (US: 9,771, UK: 4,091, Canada: 1200+, Australia: 162, Romania: 44, Estonia: 43 )
Contractors:
Killed: 1,764*
Wounded & injured: 59,465*
Taliban and Insurgents

Killed or captured: 38,000+
Wounded: unknown
Civilian deaths: 14,000-34,000 approx.
War in Afghanistan (2001?present) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of which could have been avoided if the US would have been less ignorant and arrogant and a little more respectful of Afghan culture and dignity.

 

[JLM]

"OBL's involvement in 9/11 has never been proven in a court of law. Until then, "alleged" is the correct word to use"

Hmmmmmmmm - I think if you check back you will find Binny boy not only admitted it but promised more to come.

 

[ironsides]

Arrogance and ignorance is how Americans found themselves in this situation in the first place. I see not much has changed...

Let's recap what happened.

The Taliban never came to the US and attacked Americans. The US and their allies including Canada went to Afghanistan and attacked Afghans, including the Taliban. At the time the Taliban controlled most of Afghanistan and were fighting a civil war with the Northern Alliance. OBL and other people allegedly involved in 9/11 were hiding in Afghanistan. The US demanded the Taliban start another war with people who were their "guests" according to Pashtun culture and tradition. In that culture the "host" is responsible for the safety of their "guests". They are honor bound by this code to the death. Its a foreign concept to me too, but this tradition goes back for centuries and I understand that living in shame after violating this code would be far worse than an honorable death. The US ignored this code and arrogantly demanded the Taliban hand them over or face the consequences. The Taliban responded by requesting the US go through a formal extradition process and prove their guests were involved in 9/11 first. The US responded by threatening war. The Taliban offered to extradite people to a neutral country where they would stand trial. The US responded with war.

10 years of war later and what has been accomplished?

As you observed the Taliban are still in Afghanistan. 10 years from now the Taliban will still be in Afghanistan whether we are still there or not. The people involved in 9/11 have either moved out of Afghanistan or joined the Taliban. Afghanistan still hasn't held free and fair elections. We control the cities where we have soldiers, but as soon as they leave, control falls back to the Taliban or various warlords. Opium production is now at record levels after being nearly eliminated by the Taliban 10 years ago. Far more people in this region hate us now. Al Qaeda still exists. More terrorist attacks are likely. While a few more Americans can spell Afghanistan now and a some can even find it on a map, many Americans remain arrogant and ignorant.

This quote sounds like something a war criminal would say:
[/FONT]

IMO, the US should have accepted the Taliban's offer. We would have avoided a never ending war. The people behind 9/11 would be locked up. The chances of terrorist attacks in the US or one of its allies would be far less likely.

Let me clarify myself more, Afghanistan should be removed from the maps as ancient Carthage was.

 

[earth_as_one]

"OBL's involvement in 9/11 has never been proven in a court of law. Until then, "alleged" is the correct word to use"

Hmmmmmmmm - I think if you check back you will find Binny boy not only admitted it but promised more to come.

That may be true JLM, but nut jobs falsely admit to committing crimes all the time.

I used the word "alleged" correctly. It simply means the allegation remains unproven in a court of law. I deliberately used that word, not because I believe OBL is innocent, but because I believe US grievances regarding OBL and al Qaeda could have been resolved legally by diplomatic means and in a court of law, rather than needlessly starting a war.

I'm tired of war mongers using war and violence to solve every problem. Its obvious that approach as a first choice makes about as much sense as trying to dig your way out of a hole.

Let me clarify myself more, Afghanistan should be removed from the maps as ancient Carthage was.

The war mongers have had a decade to prove war and violence is the solution to every problem. Not only hasn't war and violence solved our problems, they've made existing problems worse and created new problems.

Its about time another approach was tried.

 

[ironsides]

That may be true JLM, but nut jobs falsely admit to committing crimes all the time.

I used the word "alleged" correctly. It simply means the allegation remains unproven in a court of law. I deliberately used that word, not because I believe OBL is innocent, but because I believe US grievances regarding OBL and al Qaeda could have been resolved legally by diplomatic means and in a court of law, rather than needlessly starting a war.

Its about time another approach was tried.

Lets say 9/11 never happened. Please explain your thinking about the following statement you made.

"OBL and al Qaeda could have been resolved legally by diplomatic means and in a court of law, rather than needlessly starting a war."

 

[Unforgiven]

OBL's involvement in 9/11 has never been proven in a court of law. Until then, "alleged" is the correct word to use. Punishing someone "alleged" to have committed a crime isn't just, its a lynching.

So you want the Court to convict him without him appearing in court to defend himself? Come man, he admitted it. That pretty much seals the deal.

You obviously have no respect for other cultures. You are just as arrogant and ignorant as the idiots who started the war in Afghanistan. You know little about the Taliban or Afghanistan and have no interest in enlightening yourself. People with attitudes like yours are why many Muslims and Arabs hate us.

That you already jump to insults rather than a reasoned refutation of what I posted, indicates clearly to me that you are at a loss in this argument and can't support your own position. I have great respect for all cultures. I have none who would pretend that violence is part of their culture. When that card is played, I should point out that my culture, wrongly in my opinion, dictated that all others are subservient to mine, all others were to serve my culture or die. The only thing that stopped that is the work and opinion of people like myself who disregard that aspect of our history and work to show the positive aspects of my culture like equality, tolerance and forgiveness.

If you have a point to raise that is honest and can be backed up by the truth then I am all ears. If you just want to pretend those warts don't exist while you point out all of mine, well I must desist from taking you seriously. For you have nothing to teach me. Moderate Muslims don't hate anyone. Only fundamentalist kooks who choose to use religion as a stick to beat others with.

The nine principles of Pashtunwali

1. Melmastia (hospitality) - Showing hospitality and profound respect to all visitors, regardless of distinctions of race, religion, national affiliation as well as economic status and doing so without any hope of remuneration or favour. Pashtuns are widely considered to be the most hospitable people in the world and a Pashtun will go to great extents to show his hospitality.[4][14][15]

2. Nanawatai (asylum) - Derived from the verb meaning to go in, this is used for protection given to a person who requests protection against his/her enemies. The people are protected at all costs, in many cases even people running from the law must be given refuge until the situation is clarified.[4] It can also be used when the vanquished party is prepared to go in to the house of the victors and ask for their forgiveness. (Is a peculiar form of "chivalrous" surrender, in which an enemy seeks "sanctuary" at his enemy's house).

3. Badal (justice) - To seek justice or take revenge against the wrongdoer. This applies to injustices committed yesterday or 1000 years ago if the wrongdoer still exists. Justice in Pashtun lore needs elaborating: even a mere taunt (or "Paighor") is regarded as an insult - which can only usually be redressed by shedding of the taunter's blood (and if he isn't available, then his next closest male relation). This in turn leads to a blood feud that can last generations and involve whole tribes with the loss of hundreds of lives. Normally blood feuds in this all male dominated setup are then settled in a number of ways.[4]

4. Tureh (bravery) - A Pashtun must defend his land/property, family and women from incursions wherever he or she might reside. A Pashtun should always stand brave against tyranny and he should always be able to defend his property, family, women and the honour of his name. Death can follow if anyone mistreats these traits.[4]

5. Sabat (loyalty) - Loyalty must be paid to one's family, friends, and tribe members. Loyalty is a must and a Pashtun can never become disloyal as this would be utterly shameful towards themselves and their families.

6. Imandari (righteousness) - A Pashtun must always strive towards thinking good thoughts, speaking good words and doing other good deeds. Pashtuns must behave respectfully towards all creations including people, animals and the environment around them. Pollution of the environment or its destruction is against the Pashtunwali.[4]

7. Isteqamat - Trust in God (known as "Allah" in Arabic and "Khudai-ta-Allah" in Pashto).[4] The notion of trusting in the one Creator generally comports to Islamic idea of belief in only one God (tawheed).

8. Ghayrat (self honour or dignity) - Pashtuns must maintain their human dignity. Honour has great importance in Pashtun society and most other codes of life are aimed towards the preservation of one's honour or pride. They must respect themselves and others in order to be able to do so, especially those they do not know. Respect begins at home, among family members and relatives.[4]

9. Namus (Honor of women) - A Pashtun must defend the honor of Pashtun women at all costs and must protect them from vocal and physical harm.[4]

Pashtunwali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet they will stick a woman in the ground and force everyone to throw rocks at her until she is dead because some jealous man said she was unfaithful. Women must be covered head to toe to prevent men from having impure thoughts and raping them. That children should not be educated. That acid should be thrown into a childs face because they want to be educated.

Do what we say and not as we do, is the refuge if a weak mind and fanatics who can't control themselves.

Casualties of the Afghan war:

Afghan Security Forces: 7,500+ killed
Afghan Northern Alliance:200 Killed

Coalition:
Killed: 2,234 (US: 1,395, UK: 352, Canada: 154, Others: 338 )
Wounded: 12,523+ (US: 9,771, UK: 4,091, Canada: 1200+, Australia: 162, Romania: 44, Estonia: 43 )
Contractors:
Killed: 1,764*
Wounded & injured: 59,465*
Taliban and Insurgents

Killed or captured: 38,000+
Wounded: unknown
Civilian deaths: 14,000-34,000 approx.
War in Afghanistan (2001?present) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of which could have been avoided if the US would have been less ignorant and arrogant and a little more respectful of Afghan culture and dignity.

Yeah, so how is that terrorism working out for ya? Get the job done did it? Good idea to support terrorist groups in your country?

If any country wants to talk about foreign policy I welcome it. If there is a problem, let's sit down and see if we can resolve it to both our satisfaction. If that isn't to your liking, consider if it were up to me, I wouldn't for a moment killing every man woman and child in that country in a wholesale publicized slaughter the world has never witnessed to date. We'd see how you feel about war and terrorism then.

 

[JLM]

That may be true JLM, but nut jobs falsely admit to committing crimes all the time.

I used the word "alleged" correctly. It simply means the allegation remains unproven in a court of law. I deliberately used that word, not because I believe OBL is innocent, but because I believe US grievances regarding OBL and al Qaeda could have been resolved legally by diplomatic means and in a court of law, rather than needlessly starting a war.

I'm tired of war mongers using war and violence to solve every problem. Its obvious that approach as a first choice makes about as much sense as trying to dig your way out of a hole.



The war mongers have had a decade to prove war and violence is the solution to every problem. Not only hasn't war and violence solved our problems, they've made existing problems worse and created new problems.

Its about time another approach was tried.

Maybe if these "nutjobs" got the same treatment as the real perpetrator you'd soon see an end of the "nutjobs". Their only motive is they think it's somehow going to benefit them.

 

[earth_as_one]

Lets say 9/11 never happened. Please explain your thinking about the following statement you made.

"OBL and al Qaeda could have been resolved legally by diplomatic means and in a court of law, rather than needlessly starting a war."

If 9/11 didn't happen, then I doubt Canada would have soldiers in Afghanistan. The US still had the embassy bombings, which resulted in many innocent civilian deaths, including many Muslims. According to Pashtunwali, the US and other nations have a right to seek justice and punish those responsible

So you want the Court to convict him without him appearing in court to defend himself? Come man, he admitted it. That pretty much seals the deal.

That you already jump to insults rather than a reasoned refutation of what I posted, indicates clearly to me that you are at a loss in this argument and can't support your own position. I have great respect for all cultures. I have none who would pretend that violence is part of their culture. When that card is played, I should point out that my culture, wrongly in my opinion, dictated that all others are subservient to mine, all others were to serve my culture or die. The only thing that stopped that is the work and opinion of people like myself who disregard that aspect of our history and work to show the positive aspects of my culture like equality, tolerance and forgiveness.

If you have a point to raise that is honest and can be backed up by the truth then I am all ears. If you just want to pretend those warts don't exist while you point out all of mine, well I must desist from taking you seriously. For you have nothing to teach me. Moderate Muslims don't hate anyone. Only fundamentalist kooks who choose to use religion as a stick to beat others with.



And yet they will stick a woman in the ground and force everyone to throw rocks at her until she is dead because some jealous man said she was unfaithful. Women must be covered head to toe to prevent men from having impure thoughts and raping them. That children should not be educated. That acid should be thrown into a childs face because they want to be educated.

Do what we say and not as we do, is the refuge if a weak mind and fanatics who can't control themselves.



Yeah, so how is that terrorism working out for ya? Get the job done did it? Good idea to support terrorist groups in your country?

If any country wants to talk about foreign policy I welcome it. If there is a problem, let's sit down and see if we can resolve it to both our satisfaction. If that isn't to your liking, consider if it were up to me, I wouldn't for a moment killing every man woman and child in that country in a wholesale publicized slaughter the world has never witnessed to date. We'd see how you feel about war and terrorism then.

Yes I think this should have gone to court. OBL is a criminal. Al Qaeda is a criminal organization. Diplomacy and fair trials should have been the preferred option. OBL and other members of al Qaeda would have to be detained first. If I understand Pashtunwali, once the Americans prove their case against al Qaeda, the Taliban are obligated to assist Americans seeking Badal or justice.

I'm against capital punishment. That means I'm against all forms of it. IMO, stoning, electrocution and hanging are equally barbaric.

I'm also agnostic, which means I don't subscribe to any organized religion. At the same time, I try to be respectful of people's belief sytems and culture.

Its a good thing you aren't in a position of power. You would be a war criminal. Slaughters like you advocate have been attempted in the past. The Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide for example.

BTW, I've never advocated violence as a preferred solution. "Terrorism" and "terrorist" are just propaganda terms. These words are deigned to provoke emotions and irrational thought leading to a lynch mob behavior,war crimes and crimes against humanity such as those advocated by Unforgiven.

 

[petros]

Osama bin Laden is just a Lt Kije for the Islamic world.

"What a pity," the emperor says, "he was a good officer."

 

[Unforgiven]

Yes I think this should have gone to court. OBL is a criminal. Al Qaeda is a criminal organization. Diplomacy and fair trials should have been the preferred option. OBL and other members of al Qaeda would have to be detained first. If I understand Pashtunwali, once the Americans prove their case against al Qaeda, the Taliban are obligated to assist Americans seeking Badal or justice.

They were given the opportunity to hand him over or allow for Nato to find him and bring him to justice. They chose neither option. The "let's just drag things out cause we can't find them" plan didn't work either. Now look at Afghanistan.

I'm against capital punishment. That means I'm against all forms of it. IMO, stoning, electrocution and hanging are equally barbaric.

Ah so you are against other people's religion, and culture do you. Isn't that interesting. Seems to me that what you just accused me of. How do you justify this "If I do it it's ok but if you do it you're a bad person" position of yours?

I'm also agnostic, which means I don't subscribe to any organized religion. At the same time, I try to be respectful of people's belief sytems and culture.

You just said you were against Muslim Shar'ria law of stoning, beheading, execution all part of belief system and culture. Are you respectfully against it or something? That's a bit convenient.

Its a good thing you aren't in a position of power. You would be a war criminal. Slaughters like you advocate have been attempted in the past. The Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide for example.

Call it what you want. War would last a few days and be the last bloody thing anyone would want to happen to the point of taking actual steps to avoid it rather than this false bravado and arguing while the civilians are slowly chipped away at. War should be war not based on ratings and the popular vote. There is no fair war. All out total annihilation until one side quits or is dead. You have to go a lot further back in history to get a grasp of what I would unleash.

BTW, I've never advocated violence as a preferred solution. "Terrorism" and "terrorist" are just propaganda terms. These words are deigned to provoke emotions and irrational thought leading to a lynch mob behavior,war crimes and crimes against humanity such as those advocated by Unforgiven.

Wrong again.

Terrorism is a method employed by rogue militia on civilians to force them through fear to change government policy.
That is what it is. Propaganda is a media convention to convince the people that something wrong is justified.
Again you resort to insult when you're inability to support your argument become evident. You're frustration is obvious.

Reasonable action is for reasonable people. Violence is the only thing some minds can understand. For that there should be no half measures as it only hurts the innocent.

 

[earth_as_one]

Osama bin Laden is just a Lt Kije for the Islamic world.

"What a pity," the emperor says, "he was a good officer."

I never met Lt Kije, but I understand he was a brave man.

 

[petros]

I never met Lt Kije, but I understand he was a brave man.

A hero like no other. A true inspiration to the men he fought with and a national icon.

 

[ironsides]

I never met Lt Kije, but I understand he was a brave man.

I thought that is what were trying to do. at least when all this started. Here we have people who cut off heads and other appendages just for small infractions like falling in love, going to school etc. I think Canada would have been involved no matter if 9/11 happened or not. That is just what good friends do. No decent person can stand by and watch what both these terrorist groups and their supporters have done and are doing without trying to stop them. I actually blame people like you who have done nothing for situations like this for its escalation. Courts do not solve everything.

 

[earth_as_one]

I blame war mongering people like you for 9/11. People don't wake up one day, decide to hijack airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers. You have to piss them off first. We've been pissing off Muslims and Arabs for centuries. We treat these people like dirt and step all over them. Then blame them when they hit back. The United States government earned 9/11.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?

BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power in the world. They should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places. The country of the Two Holy Places has in our religion a peculiarity of its own over the other Muslim countries. In our religion, it is not permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our country. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety, because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its war against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because they chose this government and voted for it despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that may God release them.

He was referring to this atrocity:
1996 shelling of Qana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
106 were killed and around 116 injured

Not this atrocity 12 years later at the same location:
Qana airstrike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
28 dead

We (Western Nations and our proxies) have committed so many atrocities in this region over the years that we've run out of new places to commit atrocities and started to repeat ourselves.