'They hate our policies, not our freedom'

[para-dice]

... However dropping bombs on their head, will make moderate people to become extremists, ... .

Yea, it doesn't take a degree in physics to understand the basics of human responses. Though it's too bad that basic human dynamics like you expressed here are LOST on most people.

If people buy into the notion continually espoused by the media that all Arabs are extremists and freaks, does this say something about who they are as a person? rofl :twisted:

Maybe it's just something they can identify with? lol

 

[Logic 7]

... However dropping bombs on their head, will make moderate people to become extremists, ... .

Yea, it doesn't take a degree in physics to understand the basics of human responses. Though it's too bad that basic human dynamics like you expressed here are LOST on most people.

If people buy into the notion continually espoused by the media that all Arabs are extremists and freaks, does this say something about who they are as a person? rofl :twisted:

Maybe it's just something they can identify with? lol

Finally someone who isnt afraid of facts, congrats :wink: ,however, i didnt read everything you post, but please don't mix jewish with zionist, they are 2 different mentality, but i assume, you already know, just in case.

Also, i am not saying that muslim extremist are great, to me they are at the same level as fundamentalist christians, extremist zionist, and so on.

The only thing you can do about this, is to get involved in politics in your area, or spread, and share what you know with other peoples who are interested to know what is going on in this world.

 

[Colpy]

[


"Massacre those who insult Islam."
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."


Nothing in there , support the fact they hate western freedom, .

Don't be silly.

The right to print an offensive cartoon, to insult Mohammed or whomever else you like, or to express views not to the liking of others is the absolute cornerstone of western freedom.

If you hate free speech (which these folks so obviously do), then you hate liberty.

Simple as that.

They are insulted because they insulted Mohamed, their whatever prophet,that has nothing to do with free-speech, and the author knew it was going to insult them, same kind of event happened 4 years ago,10 times more ridicoulus,when "passion of christ" movie, got into theather, apperently it painted bad the "jews" , Gibson was incredibly criticized by American-zionist, even some called him, anti-semite, some tried to banned his movie,so please stop double-standards.

WOW!

Point by point......

There were several authors of the cartoons, I doubt any of them expected the ensuing outrage, and YES their cartoons are worthy of protection as free speech, and I applaud Ezra Levant for having the cojones to print them.

I guess, like most lefties, your idea of "free speech" is everybody is absolutely free to say whatever they want, as long as they agree with you.

Or perhaps you don't understand the concept at all........

The "Piss-Christ", an exhibit of a crucifix floating in a jar of urine, has been SUCCESSFULLY defended as legitimate free speech........How in the world do you figure insults to religious figures do not count as free speech?

The entire point at hand is that the "american-Zionists" (?!) that protested against "The Passion of Christ" do so COMPLETELY peacefully, and failed miserably. Indded, they probably managed to increase viewership of the film. That is, on both sides, free speech in action.

I have no double standards.

 

[Logic 7]

Point by point......

There were several authors of the cartoons, I doubt any of them expected the ensuing outrage, and YES their cartoons are worthy of protection as free speech, and I applaud Ezra Levant for having the cojones to print them.

I guess, like most lefties, your idea of "free speech" is everybody is absolutely free to say whatever they want, as long as they agree with you.

Or perhaps you don't understand the concept at all........

The "Piss-Christ", an exhibit of a crucifix floating in a jar of urine, has been SUCCESSFULLY defended as legitimate free speech........How in the world do you figure insults to religious figures do not count as free speech?

The entire point at hand is that the "american-Zionists" (?!) that protested against "The Passion of Christ" do so COMPLETELY peacefully, and failed miserably. Indded, they probably managed to increase viewership of the film. That is, on both sides, free speech in action.

I have no double standards.

What free speech has to do with,"they hate our freedom"? the point of that thread is"they hate our policy, not freedom" not a thread about free speech, i have nothing against peoples who make fun of religion, however sometimes, it could be offensive, like in the case of mohamed jhiad,or the new cartoon on holocost by iranies, both are bad tastes.


So by following logic like you guys have, american zionist hate your freedom, because they did anything to stop the viewing of ""passion of christ"", which is against western freedom.

 

[Just the Facts]

... And nothing in what you say, prove they hate our freedom, it is about time, guys like you realize this, and it is urgent, even people from the right admit the same.

A prestigious (and lol twist lol surpressed) prestigious report done by a branch of the Pentagon came to the same conclusion: Arabs don't hate our freedoms, they hate our collonialism. Long read: http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

"Just the Facts" doesn't understand that the West has set up and supported dictatorial fascist regimes in the M-E. Arabs being a communal people HATE fascism, yet Bush and the media calls them that everyday ...

I hate to burst your bubble, but that's the article being discussed in the first place. :roll:

 

[Just the Facts]

There were several authors of the cartoons, I doubt any of them expected the ensuing outrage,

Except of course, the three that were commissioned by the clerics. The most offensive ones which were credited with stirring up the most anger, were designed to do just that.


Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the Danish Muslim organisations which organised the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to "give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims."

Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity. These images had however never been published in Jyllands-Posten.


http://www.volokh.com/posts/1139377860.shtml

 

[Toro]

What free speech has to do with,"they hate our freedom"?

As has been pointed on many occassions, now Logic, the fact that they had placards that said

"Behead those who insult Islam"

and

"Massacre those who insult Islam"

are overt demonstrations of hatred, just like the head of the British Muslim group stated.

the point of that thread is"they hate our policy, not freedom" not a thread about free speech,

You're kidding, right?

Can you not see what you just said?

i have nothing against peoples who make fun of religion, however sometimes, it could be offensive, like in the case of mohamed jhiad,or the new cartoon on holocost by iranies, both are bad tastes.

They sure are.

But neither are reasons to kill.

So by following logic like you guys have, american zionist hate your freedom, because they did anything to stop the viewing of ""passion of christ"", which is against western freedom.

Freedom of assembly is every bit a "Western freedom" as freedom of speech and freedom of the press. The "American zionists", as you oddly call them, have every right to protest the display, just like Muslims have every right to protest the cartoons. However, I don't recall any of the Christians holding signs that said "Behead those who insult Christianity". Incitement to violence is a condition of hatred. Protesting is not.

I was deeply offended by that photo, but Robert Maplethorpe had every right to show that picture.

And BTW is "American zionist" tonue in cheek or are you serious?

 

[Just the Facts]

So by following logic like you guys have, american zionist hate your freedom, because they did anything to stop the viewing of ""passion of christ"", which is against western freedom.

No, not at all. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not following any logic at all...I'm just telling you what Qutb said, and Qutb is reveered by Jihadi's as a hero. Plain and simple. He's often credited with being the father of the modern Islamist movement. I didn't say it, Qutb said it.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I heard a Cleric in Britain who was advocating that Britain eventually become an Islamic state. I heard that and I wondered "If he wanted to live in an Islamic state why didn't he go to one that already existed instead of moving to a country like England only to demand that it change."
The reason as I see it is that Britain is a comfortable place to live and that the Islamic states aren't.
So mabey "they" don't hate our freedoms but if they had their way our freedoms would be gone just the same

 

[gc]

RE: 'They hate our polici

I don't know about all terrorists, but using bin laden as an example (since we can probably all agree that he is the biggest muslim terrorist), here are some quotes:

"Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example."

"We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you."

"Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security"

These are all from wikiquote and are sourced to BBC and CNN articles Link

Of course, I keep an open mind. If anyone has quotes from bin laden saying that he hates democracy or freedom, I'd be interested in seeing them. I looked myself but couldn't find any.

 

[Just the Facts]

As soon as I saw this headline today, it instantly reminded me of this old thread.

Good times.

"Our friendship and animosity are based on religion. We hate Americans for their secular ideology."

"Our friendship and animosity are based on religion. We hate Americans for their secular ideology." - Jihad Watch

In other words, "we hate them for their freedom."

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I don't think you can equate secular ideology with freedom. Communism as implemented in the old USSR and China are secular ideologies too. I don't think that statement from Jihad Watch is true either. If America were a fundamentalist Christian state, for instance, I doubt the Jihadist's animosity would be any less, the animosity is not based on religion versus secularism, it's based on a particular religion versus all other religions.

 

[Just the Facts]

I don't think you can equate secular ideology with freedom. Communism as implemented in the old USSR and China are secular ideologies too. I don't think that statement from Jihad Watch is true either. If America were a fundamentalist Christian state, for instance, I doubt the Jihadist's animosity would be any less, the animosity is not based on religion versus secularism, it's based on a particular religion versus all other religions.

That's all true but it is what it is, he didn't say we hate you for your communist atheism, or we hate you for your Christian oppression, he said we hate you for your secular ideology, which in the case of America and the West, which is what he's talking about, means freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, freedom from religion.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... he said we hate you for your secular ideology...

Right, but I don't believe that's the truth.

 

[Niflmir]

As soon as I saw this headline today, it instantly reminded me of this old thread.

Good times.

"Our friendship and animosity are based on religion. We hate Americans for their secular ideology."

"Our friendship and animosity are based on religion. We hate Americans for their secular ideology." - Jihad Watch

In other words, "we hate them for their freedom."

No, I'm pretty sure that people from Pakistan hate Americans for being indifferent to civilian deaths caused by hellfire missiles knowingly dropped on funerals by drones.

So unless "freedom" is some sort of colloquialism for "acquiescence to murder," they do not hate anyone for their freedoms.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

I'm guessing the geopolitics of the last century has more to do with hatred towards the west, they may hate our freedoms because a lot of it comes at the expense of theirs.

 

[Just the Facts]

See, I'm trying not to guess. We can guess till the cows come home. I'm trying to listen to what they're saying. I think they're making themselves quite clear. Shhh. Just listen.

Right, but I don't believe that's the truth.

You mean you think he's a liar, or you think he was mistranslated?

No, I'm pretty sure that people from Pakistan hate Americans for being indifferent to civilian deaths caused by hellfire missiles knowingly dropped on funerals by drones.

Sounds like he disagrees....from the above link:

How are the drone strikes affecting the movement of the Taliban?

We have lost a large number of our companions in drone strikes but the mujahideen are neither afraid of them nor can they discourage the jihad. The jihad against the infidel forces will continue

Sounds like he's saying that the drones are a stinging thorn in the side, not a driving force. Hear that?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You mean you think he's a liar, or you think he was mistranslated?

Neither. He's just wrong.

 

[Just the Facts]

Neither. He's just wrong.