'They hate our policies, not our freedom'
- Thread starter Logic 7
- Start date
Let's go back to Logic's assertion that they don't hate our freedoms.
Here's the photo from the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ncart06.xml
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
And here is the photo from the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4686164.stm
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Here are a few more
The Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2074930,00.html
"Slay those who insult Islam."
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4784290.stm
So tell me, Logic, how do you interpret
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Is that a "mild dislike"? Perhaps its an "annoyance"?
I know whenever I'm mildly annoyed at someone, the first thing that crosses my mind is to behead them.
But that couldn't be hate. Oh, no, not that!
The Ku Klux Klan will be happy you think that way, Logic!
Here is what Asghar Bukhari, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee said
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm
So, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee believes that those demonstrators are causing hatred.
But not you, Logic. Oh no.
Now, I don't if you are from the West, Logic, but here, freedom of speech supersedes religious sensibilities.
The right to criticize a religion is very much a Western freedom. Clearly, those demonstrators hate that right. They are extremist zealots.
And you continue to defend them!
Here's the photo from the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ncart06.xml
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
And here is the photo from the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4686164.stm
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Here are a few more
The Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2074930,00.html
"Slay those who insult Islam."
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4784290.stm
So tell me, Logic, how do you interpret
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Is that a "mild dislike"? Perhaps its an "annoyance"?
I know whenever I'm mildly annoyed at someone, the first thing that crosses my mind is to behead them.
But that couldn't be hate. Oh, no, not that!
The Ku Klux Klan will be happy you think that way, Logic!
Here is what Asghar Bukhari, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee said
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm
So, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee believes that those demonstrators are causing hatred.
But not you, Logic. Oh no.
Now, I don't if you are from the West, Logic, but here, freedom of speech supersedes religious sensibilities.
The right to criticize a religion is very much a Western freedom. Clearly, those demonstrators hate that right. They are extremist zealots.
And you continue to defend them!
Toro said:Let's go back to Logic's assertion that they don't hate our freedoms.
Here's the photo from the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ncart06.xml
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
And here is the photo from the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4686164.stm
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Here are a few more
The Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2074930,00.html
"Slay those who insult Islam."
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4784290.stm
So tell me, Logic, how do you interpret
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Is that a "mild dislike"? Perhaps its an "annoyance"?
I know whenever I'm mildly annoyed at someone, the first thing that crosses my mind is to behead them.
But that couldn't be hate. Oh, no, not that!
The Ku Klux Klan will be happy you think that way, Logic!
Here is what Asghar Bukhari, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee said
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm
So, the chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee believes that those demonstrators are causing hatred.
But not you, Logic. Oh no.
Now, I don't if you are from the West, Logic, but here, freedom of speech supersedes religious sensibilities.
The right to criticize a religion is very much a Western freedom. Clearly, those demonstrators hate that right. They are extremist zealots.
And you continue to defend them!
"Massacre those who insult Islam."
"Slay those who insult Islam."
"Behead those who insult Islam."
"Butcher those who mock Islam."
Nothing in there , support the fact they hate western freedom, it is you who decided to interpreted this way.However , it is easy to say,which i've never denied , they have hatred towards west, but how can you be mad at them? you are from united states? then just look what your leaders are doing overthere, that is hatred at the highest level,"better fight them there, than here" just this statement from the most powerful nation on earth, deserved hatred from muslim.
Also look at fox commentators and many others, even movies,, how they paint arabs in general, that is hatred at the best.America has a hatred culture, it began with Native indians, which were describes as savage(savage was the basic propaganda to steal their land), then blacks came(savage was the basic propaganda to justified their slavery), and were described as savage, now it is the turn of arabs(savage/terrorist is the basic propaganda to steal their ressources).
A guy named "Dieudonner" from france, has been found guilty of racist-hatred towards Zionist-israel, which he only made fun of the israeli governement and extremist zionist, strangely he was 10times harder on muslim-extremist who suppositly did 9-11, but was never found of any guilt for that matter. Apperently , freedom of speech only work for one side, i can see.
Logic 7 said:
Don't be silly.
The right to print an offensive cartoon, to insult Mohammed or whomever else you like, or to express views not to the liking of others is the absolute cornerstone of western freedom.
If you hate free speech (which these folks so obviously do), then you hate liberty.
Simple as that.
What I can’t understand is anyone who wishes to make the argument that “they hate our freedoms” omits “the hatred to the policies” side. One should in the very least say “they hate our freedoms and our policies”.
But we are again making generalizations here and that is the root of the problem with this argument. We are lumping people into all one group.
For one thing those photos are people in London England. Not in the Middle East. How many people made up that protest? How many people would that be in comparison to the muslim community in England?
This is what the muslim community in England had to say about that protest:
Again lets look at another aspect. In Iraq prior to the second Iraq War woman were able to live in greater security for certain freedoms which they enjoyed. It was still an oppressive regime but in comparison to US occupation the environment for women and certain freedoms were much much better.
Now women are slowly having to wear veils. The USA having ousted Saddam has instead replaced it with a political body that is basically turning Iraq into an Islamic Republic intolerant of many social liberties. And now we simply look at the culture and condemn from this point in history.
Maybe if the American North didn’t defeat the American South in the US civil war we would see a country trying to recover from a history of apartheid. I don’t know, but every culture has had to undergo progressive changes at one point or another. Even in North American women couldn’t vote at one time. When you look at the social environments in the Middle East, in some cases they are living as though the world were a couple hundred years back into the past.
The west keeps beating them down into the past. Israel boasted of bombing Lebanon 20 years back in time. Such a short time after they pushed Syria out.
But we are again making generalizations here and that is the root of the problem with this argument. We are lumping people into all one group.
For one thing those photos are people in London England. Not in the Middle East. How many people made up that protest? How many people would that be in comparison to the muslim community in England?
This is what the muslim community in England had to say about that protest:
Again lets look at another aspect. In Iraq prior to the second Iraq War woman were able to live in greater security for certain freedoms which they enjoyed. It was still an oppressive regime but in comparison to US occupation the environment for women and certain freedoms were much much better.
Now women are slowly having to wear veils. The USA having ousted Saddam has instead replaced it with a political body that is basically turning Iraq into an Islamic Republic intolerant of many social liberties. And now we simply look at the culture and condemn from this point in history.
Maybe if the American North didn’t defeat the American South in the US civil war we would see a country trying to recover from a history of apartheid. I don’t know, but every culture has had to undergo progressive changes at one point or another. Even in North American women couldn’t vote at one time. When you look at the social environments in the Middle East, in some cases they are living as though the world were a couple hundred years back into the past.
The west keeps beating them down into the past. Israel boasted of bombing Lebanon 20 years back in time. Such a short time after they pushed Syria out.
Generalizations. That is all that is being said here. I highly doubt that some people who are being condemned here hate something they themselves have never experienced or envisioned for themselves. Fanaticism has also been a backlash to all the death and destruction the west has been a part of with that region.
The USA supports brutally oppressive regimes such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Horrible human rights record on woman in those countries. Places the USA has called allies in the war on terror. The USA trained the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets with Bin Laden right in the front of it. A precursor to what is now known as Al Qaeda. The USA supplied Saddam with his weapons. His poison gas later used on the Kurds. Israel has continued a policy of occupation, oppression, bombings, with a blind eye from the west for many years now.
If you wonder what it is they should hate, it’s all laid out in their history. And when they see children with their heads leaking out onto the road after another bombing campaign it’s a pretty self righteous to condemn without an understanding towards how their culture might continue to fall into religious radicalization.
Where there is poor people there is religion. Just look at the USA and the religious red states. Look at who gets preyed upon.
The USA supports brutally oppressive regimes such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Horrible human rights record on woman in those countries. Places the USA has called allies in the war on terror. The USA trained the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets with Bin Laden right in the front of it. A precursor to what is now known as Al Qaeda. The USA supplied Saddam with his weapons. His poison gas later used on the Kurds. Israel has continued a policy of occupation, oppression, bombings, with a blind eye from the west for many years now.
If you wonder what it is they should hate, it’s all laid out in their history. And when they see children with their heads leaking out onto the road after another bombing campaign it’s a pretty self righteous to condemn without an understanding towards how their culture might continue to fall into religious radicalization.
Where there is poor people there is religion. Just look at the USA and the religious red states. Look at who gets preyed upon.
RE: 'They hate our polici
I make no excuse for anybody. Neither do I excuse 'the west' in this instance who has not shown itself these days to be on a greater standing at helping to create the circumstances for social moderation in the world.
I make no excuse for anybody. Neither do I excuse 'the west' in this instance who has not shown itself these days to be on a greater standing at helping to create the circumstances for social moderation in the world.
Logic 7 said:
You have got to be kidding.
If you don't get that, you don't understand what Western freedoms are.
Colpy said:
Yup
Perhaps Logic is re-defining what "hate" means.
Logic
It is a Western freedom to be blasphemous. If someone is responding to blasphemy with murder, then they hate Western freedom, regardless if that person is a Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, a Taoist, etc., etc., etc.
You don't have to hold up a sign at a protest saying you hate Western freedom to hate freedom!
But just so you don't think I'm picking on Muslims, I despise these so-called "Christians" as much as I do the extremist Islamic zealots you are defending. They, like those Islamic protestors, are enemies of humanity, progress and science. Unlike you, I'm not an apologist for these scum who are doing horrible things in the name of Jesus.
Colpy said:
They are insulted because they insulted Mohamed, their whatever prophet,that has nothing to do with free-speech, and the author knew it was going to insult them, same kind of event happened 4 years ago,10 times more ridicoulus,when "passion of christ" movie, got into theather, apperently it painted bad the "jews" , Gibson was incredibly criticized by American-zionist, even some called him, anti-semite, some tried to banned his movie,so please stop double-standards.
Toro said:
I am glad to hear that, at least we agree on something, extremist are ennemies of hummanity, i hate those islamic extremist too,don't worry,people who rely by-the-book on religion, i have not much respect for that.
However dropping bombs on their head, will make moderate people to become extremists, education like in palestine becomes low, and extremist can spread their hatred easier, there is no secret that a big amount of palestinians are militants, ready to die for their cause, just have a look how they have suffered and lived since the creation of israel, how can they have an education in those circumstances? israelli-governement have really high- educated peoples to know those side effects of those threathments, that is what makes me angry.
But i am sorry you will not convinced me, that they hate western freedom, it just doesnt make sense.
Logic 7 said:
Have you read this thread yet? Have you looked up Qutb's concept of "Islamic Freedom"? Do this, and it will make sense. Of course it doesn't make sense when you close your eyes, cover your ears and scream "la la la la la la la la" while we explain it to you.
Just the Facts said:Logic 7 said:
Have you read this thread yet? Have you looked up Qutb's concept of "Islamic Freedom"? Do this, and it will make sense. Of course it doesn't make sense when you close your eyes, cover your ears and scream "la la la la la la la la" while we explain it to you.
I did many times, and no Qutbs doenst hate your and mine freedom, it is about time you guys start to have your own opinion, don't let media. or your governement dicates what you should know.
The United States hides behind its Policies to liberate, dispensing Freedom and Democracy as if passing out Gatorade to a thirsty football team. When (My Feeling) if we were really serious and the ultimate Power we would simplistically take over. “Fully”- Establish “The” government, as needed for those peoples. All of this half staffed armies and missions does nothing but waste time and more importantly lives. Mission accomplished my ass. Not as to dictate but we are talking about a Military Action.
We are expecting the very forces we had dismantled in a matter of days to take the reigns and replace our war machine. They are, with our aid, to set up a new government, police themselves, protect voters, new electricity, new water, new roads, when they could not hold a child at bay from taffy. As far as working along side them while all this is being done is just ridiculous. It becomes a logistical nightmare. Just fix the problems, lead AND TEACH by example. They already have the idea just not the time in. You had might as well have Skippy (the nose picker) from the loading dock, NECKTIE it up and run the company, getter done!
We have also done this before. The Bath Party was our creation, lest we forget.
The dollar may be leading the way but as far as wealth, last time I heard no-body I know of can load up trucks full of “United States Cash On Hand” form a National Bank, with-in a day, so they have some pocket change on the lamb. We could do it with gold but last time that was done Pappy fished it out of a stream and went to the trading post to exchange it. The money is in the ground, the real estate owned by FOREIGN owners in the U.S., e.g. Hawaii, New York City, San Francisco (RICE-a-roni, is the San Franciscan Treat).
The other side is hiding behind their religious beliefs, their strict regiment of worship and life. According to sources, some of these religious zealots had Satellite Television able to view foreign programs. There was lots of drinking and woman, brutalization of human life. Although dieing in a Holy Cause will get you into heaven, murder and abuse of others is strictly forbidden.
Both sides are hypocritical when it comes down to the point of simple dislike and selfishness. Both sides hold their beliefs as noble causes, and neither truly is, because of the tinge of personal needs and wants.
Sorry for the lack of brevity, and thanks for your time.
P.S. How do you copy the quotes and add them to your blog?
We are expecting the very forces we had dismantled in a matter of days to take the reigns and replace our war machine. They are, with our aid, to set up a new government, police themselves, protect voters, new electricity, new water, new roads, when they could not hold a child at bay from taffy. As far as working along side them while all this is being done is just ridiculous. It becomes a logistical nightmare. Just fix the problems, lead AND TEACH by example. They already have the idea just not the time in. You had might as well have Skippy (the nose picker) from the loading dock, NECKTIE it up and run the company, getter done!
We have also done this before. The Bath Party was our creation, lest we forget.
The dollar may be leading the way but as far as wealth, last time I heard no-body I know of can load up trucks full of “United States Cash On Hand” form a National Bank, with-in a day, so they have some pocket change on the lamb. We could do it with gold but last time that was done Pappy fished it out of a stream and went to the trading post to exchange it. The money is in the ground, the real estate owned by FOREIGN owners in the U.S., e.g. Hawaii, New York City, San Francisco (RICE-a-roni, is the San Franciscan Treat).
The other side is hiding behind their religious beliefs, their strict regiment of worship and life. According to sources, some of these religious zealots had Satellite Television able to view foreign programs. There was lots of drinking and woman, brutalization of human life. Although dieing in a Holy Cause will get you into heaven, murder and abuse of others is strictly forbidden.
Both sides are hypocritical when it comes down to the point of simple dislike and selfishness. Both sides hold their beliefs as noble causes, and neither truly is, because of the tinge of personal needs and wants.
Sorry for the lack of brevity, and thanks for your time.
P.S. How do you copy the quotes and add them to your blog?
Just the Facts said:Logic 7 said:
In other words, "la la la la la la la la"
Exactly , in other word, when i hear leaders like blair, bush or even harper, talking about ""terrorist hate our freedom""to me, is they actually admit, they hate their citizen "freedoms", cheeney who has already stated" If you vote for democrates, terrorist will strike agains" he is actually admitting they are the terrorist, how do they know they will strike again? evidence they are the ones who hates freedoms? patriot act law was passed, wiretapping, all kinds of new laws that violates " freedoms" passed by those same who claim otherwise, we already know they are liars at the highest level, and that would just support that exact same claim supported by evidence,, however you can't do the same with Qutbs, alqueada, and all those terrrorist organisations.
Logic 7 said:
A prestigious (and lol twist lol surpressed) prestigious report done by a branch of the Pentagon came to the same conclusion: Arabs don't hate our freedoms, they hate our collonialism. Long read: http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf
"Just the Facts" doesn't understand that the West has set up and supported dictatorial fascist regimes in the M-E. Arabs being a communal people HATE fascism, yet Bush and the media calls them that everyday ...
Oh and those so called "Muslim Cartoons"?
They were approved for publication by Mr. Fleming Rose, who is Jewish and is a friend and confidant of a hardcore Zionist, America's #1 (wikipedia) Muslim hater Daniel Pipes.
But ofcourse they were published for reasons of "freedom of speech."
Here in Canada those cartoons were also published by the Western Standard, whose publisher Mr. Ezra Levant is ... wait for it .. also Jewish.
twist! :twisted:
It seems though when the subject matter of a film (remember that Pal film at the Academy awards 2 years ago? It was almost banned. It was not allowed to be distributed in US theaters! Another example is "Rachels' Voice" a play about Rachel Corrie was shut down by Jewish groups and will never be seen. In Ontario Jewish groups almost got a book about the lives of Pal children banned from Ontario schools.) These are a few examples of when the subject matter is critical of Israel, us Jews no longer support freedom of speech.
They were approved for publication by Mr. Fleming Rose, who is Jewish and is a friend and confidant of a hardcore Zionist, America's #1 (wikipedia) Muslim hater Daniel Pipes.
But ofcourse they were published for reasons of "freedom of speech."
Here in Canada those cartoons were also published by the Western Standard, whose publisher Mr. Ezra Levant is ... wait for it .. also Jewish.
twist! :twisted:
It seems though when the subject matter of a film (remember that Pal film at the Academy awards 2 years ago? It was almost banned. It was not allowed to be distributed in US theaters! Another example is "Rachels' Voice" a play about Rachel Corrie was shut down by Jewish groups and will never be seen. In Ontario Jewish groups almost got a book about the lives of Pal children banned from Ontario schools.) These are a few examples of when the subject matter is critical of Israel, us Jews no longer support freedom of speech.