The Worst PM Ever. Period!

[Nick Danger]

Who reigns them in when they get out of control?

Market forces, government, the employers themselves. I've watched the decline of the unions' influence in the oilsands first hand for about a decade now, the pressure has been quiet but steady since the oil price crash in 2014/15. The strength held by the unions is not what it used to be. I see union jobs being replaced by non-union operators frequently. Ten years back that would have brought a job site to a stand still, now everybody keeps their heads down and goes back to work.

 

[Jinentonix]

He is taking a harder line on environmental issues, something the Conservatives have deftly sidestepped for years. He is also talking about things like shrinking private sector union membership, the increasing of unequal wealth distribution, and has taken a position that there is "No place for the far right" in his party. Now whether he is sincere in bringing the Conservatives closer to center or is just getting a head start on the coming election remains to be seen, but he's making noises you don't generally hear from Conservatives.

You mean like the ol' Federal PC's that Chretien made damn sure could never reconstitute as a stand-alone party again?

 

[Twin_Moose]

Market forces, government, the employers themselves. I've watched the decline of the unions' influence in the oilsands first hand for about a decade now, the pressure has been quiet but steady since the oil price crash in 2014/15. The strength held by the unions is not what it used to be. I see union jobs being replaced by non-union operators frequently. Ten years back that would have brought a job site to a stand still, now everybody keeps their heads down and goes back to work.

Unions helped push the out of control safety measures in Ft. Mac no wonder there was a push back but it had to be done through legislation, once certified always certified unless the contract can be broken thus like Sask. Bill C45.

 

[JLM]

Who reigns them in when they get out of control?

The marketplace is generally the most effective at handling these sorts of situations. When things get bad, in some cases, people more on to positions with better opertunities.

 

[Nick Danger]

Unions helped push the out of control safety measures in Ft. Mac no wonder there was a push back but it had to be done through legislation, once certified always certified unless the contract can be broken thus like Sask. Bill C45.

What's "out of control" about current safety measures? It is an industry that's under a microscope, you can't afford to be seen as doing anything but your best when it comes to employee safety, especially when you have David Suzuki on a nearby mountain top with binoculars and a notebook. I don't see anything "out of control" at all, they do what they have to. Even then, there were three people killed on Suncor sites within the last two months.

 

[petros]

In case you werent aware all industry is under heavy scrutiny when it come to safety. Environmental and Human Resources alike.

 

[Twin_Moose]

The marketplace is generally the most effective at handling these sorts of situations. When things get bad, in some cases, people more on to positions with better opertunities.

Marketplace cannot reign in unions, only union management and legislation

 

[Nick Danger]

In case you werent aware all industry is under heavy scrutiny when it come to safety. Environmental and Human Resources alike.

As it should be. Would you classify it as "out of control" ?

 

[petros]

As it should be. Would you classify it as "out of control" ?

In some instances yes.

 

[bob the dog]

Unions helped push the out of control safety measures in Ft. Mac no wonder there was a push back but it had to be done through legislation, once certified always certified unless the contract can be broken thus like Sask. Bill C45.

One thing about the safety push is that it costs huge amounts of money that add big dollars to cost plus contracts. They care far more about their percentage than they do about worker safety. Todays unions are afraid to bite the hand the feeds them and are a pushover on any site.

Todays news about Site C now at $16 billion with a long way to go. Keeyask was so far over budget they will never release the details. At least with Muskrat Falls the Newfoundlanders called a halt to the bs and are still messing with the chaos. Union leaders all smiling over their best of the best benefit packages they vote for themselves.

Apologize for the rant.

 

[bob the dog]

Never mind the tax dollars that flow from the disorganization.

Somehow politicians think it validates the investment but it does not when there is no control. Most end up being bottomless pits of money.

 

[Nick Danger]

Somehow politicians think it validates the investment but it does not when there is no control. Most end up being bottomless pits of money.

That's the huge difference between private and public sector projects. One of the mainstays in dealing with the government, whether it's elected officials, employees or contractors, government money is seen as easy money. If you have solution to that please share it, the problem is nothing new, and it does tend to flow from the top down.

I can't speak to the whole private sector, the oilsands is all I've really seen for the last decade, but cost plus contracts are a rarity these days. When oil was $100+ a barrel the producers had to pull a heavy hauler in from the site to do their bank deposits, and everybody was making a killing. Those gravy days are gone. There's still some good money to be made there but fewer are making it and they're working a lot harder for it.

 

[petros]

3P keeps the Govt in line. Govt managers are kept at arm's length.

 

[Twin_Moose]

What's "out of control" about current safety measures? It is an industry that's under a microscope, you can't afford to be seen as doing anything but your best when it comes to employee safety, especially when you have David Suzuki on a nearby mountain top with binoculars and a notebook. I don't see anything "out of control" at all, they do what they have to. Even then, there were three people killed on Suncor sites within the last two months.

The out of control safety is driving costs up over 1/3, that's why you are seeing company's taking advantage of Gov. non union legislation. Oilfield contractors would love to use unions trained professionals, but can't afford them in their profit margin. That is why the non union contractors target key experienced union hands to hire and lead not as experienced labor at a cheaper rate. Still have to observe all legislated safety and environmental measures, not the invented union safety recommended ones.

 

[Nick Danger]

The out of control safety is driving costs up over 1/3, that's why you are seeing company's taking advantage of Gov. non union legislation. Oilfield contractors would love to use unions trained professionals, but can't afford them in their profit margin. That is why the non union contractors target key experienced union hands to hire and lead not as experienced labor at a cheaper rate. Still have to observe all legislated safety and environmental measures, not the invented union safety recommended ones.

Replacing union labour with non-union just drives the wage cost down. Safety requirements are the same. The safety regulations in place are a direct response to the identification of hazards, more often than not resulting from accidents. If it takes a union to get some attention paid to hazards then good on the unions. Sure it costs more to work safely, but does that mean it's okay to reduce worker safety in order to pad the bottom line ?

 

[Twin_Moose]

Replacing union labour with non-union just drives the wage cost down. Safety requirements are the same. The safety regulations in place are a direct response to the identification of hazards, more often than not resulting from accidents. If it takes a union to get some attention paid to hazards then good on the unions. Sure it costs more to work safely, but does that mean it's okay to reduce worker safety in order to pad the bottom line ?

Are you a union hand? Pipefitters?

 

[Twin_Moose]

Wages in the skilled field are not that much different, unskilled field yes, 1/3 cost to benefits are the only real difference.

 

[petros]

One acronym say it all. CLAC. Pronounced ess see a bee.

 

[Nick Danger]

Are you a union hand? Pipefitters?

Yes and no. In my current postion I would fall into the "unskilled labour" category.

 

[Twin_Moose]

One acronym say it all. CLAC. Pronounced ess see a bee.

Union in name only