"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta

[harrylee]

when I was first in the air force the french got half of the promotions.
later they changed that to females getting half of the promotions.

I bet that pleased you Hoidy....After all, you libs want diversity. Gotta make up for those evil "White Nattys" getting everything.

 

[Curious Cdn]

when I was first in the air force the french got half of the promotions.
later they changed that to females getting half of the promotions.

So, instead of Sargeant, they only promoted them to Master Corporal?

 

[taxslave]

That was last year when he was in cadets

 

[B00Mer]

 

[Serryah]

So question for anyone pro-separation:

Should there be a vote or whatever to separate; when should such a thing happen, right away or give it a year to negotiate terms, and why?

 

[petros]

Pembina Pipeline Corp. is stepping up to ease a looming propane shortage in eastern Canada sparked by a railway stoppage, striking a chord for national unity at the same time as east-west tensions grow.

Calgary-based Pembina plans to ship propane to parts of Canada, including Quebec, in a bid to help “fellow Canadians.” The pipeline operator is preparing unit trains, made up of 105 cars, with propane sourced from western Canada, the company said in a statement late Sunday.


“We believe the provinces can work together in the spirit of unity to secure a safe, reliable and long-term supply of energy from each other, rather than from foreign countries who do not share Canadian values,” it said in its release. “The best question is: why would we not?” said Chief Executive Officer Michael Dilger.

 

[Cannuck]

In the unlikely event that there was enough support for separation, there should first be a vote on whether to enter into negotiations to determine what the end would look like. Once it was determined what land and assets were staying and what was going, and how things like debt would be handled....only then should there be an actual separation vote. Wouldn't want a repeat of the Brexit shitshow.

 

[captain morgan]

So question for anyone pro-separation:

Should there be a vote or whatever to separate; when should such a thing happen, right away or give it a year to negotiate terms, and why?

Have the vote when deemed applicable.


Negotiate terms after the fact

 

[taxslave]

So question for anyone pro-separation:
Should there be a vote or whatever to separate; when should such a thing happen, right away or give it a year to negotiate terms, and why?

Fair question. I would expect it will go much like Quebec. There should be votes by small regions to see if they want to join in or not. Otherwise we have the same problem that we currently have where small areas with large populations override the large rural areas.. just a 10% general vote in favour of separation should be enough to make our overlords in Ontariowe pay attention and change their attitude..

 

[B00Mer]

Fair question. I would expect it will go much like Quebec. There should be votes by small regions to see if they want to join in or not. Otherwise we have the same problem that we currently have where small areas with large populations override the large rural areas.. just a 10% general vote in favour of separation should be enough to make our overlords in Ontariowe pay attention and change their attitude..

Alberta National Anthem

 

[Twin_Moose]

Hey Hoid read this article it relays Western anxiety pretty well

'Everyone’s angry': Why you're wrong if you think Wexit is just 'an Alberta thing'

Better yet Hoid read the entire article below

The Western separatist movement arising out of anger and frustration with the Confederation may appear to be a made-in-Alberta initiative for some parts of Canada.
But the fanning of the flames of separatism goes beyond Wild Rose borders into Saskatchewan as well as some pockets of both Manitoba and British Columbia.
“There’s a lot of people who really want to see this separation happen,” says Lee Smith, leader of Wexit B.C. and a small business owner in New Westminster on the West Coast.
“This is an old sentiment, too. This is from my grandfather’s day. I remember being a child at the dinner table and as soon as election time came around and the election was done my uncles, my great uncles, all adults they were talking about how we separate.”
Smith says the movement is not just conservative, the sentiment is felt among left-leaning people too.
“It’s actually really simple. Taxation without representation. That’s what it is. That’s what it boils down to. We have no say here in the West. None. We could all vote the same way and the election would be decided by Ontario and Quebec that day,” says Smith.
“Preston Manning realized this when he had the Reform Party when he couldn’t make a difference and he did a great job. But at the same time he couldn’t make a difference when he helped form the modern Conservative Party as we know it . . . What this comes down to is we are basically the economic engine for this country but we have no say in how it’s spent. It’s hardly fair.”
Smith says Wexit’s following in B.C. has reached close to 15,000 followers in a month.
“You consider that the Green Party has 16,000 and they’ve been around for 10 years. I was not expecting this to move this quickly,” he adds. “It’s not just one region. Everyone’s angry.”
A look at the electoral map of Canada shows how Conservative blue parts of the West has become with a growing frustration with the Liberal Party and its policies. Quite simply, citizens of the Prairies are mad and that has fuelled a Wexit movement that is gathering steam, with angry words turning into political action.
“Alberta is certainly leading this and Saskatchewan is very much the sister province to Alberta right now and has been a steadfast ally,” says Derek Fildebrandt, a former Alberta provincial politician and now publisher of the Western Standard and president of Wildrose Media Corp.
“They would be wrong to say that this is an Alberta thing — or even an Alberta and Saskatchewan phenomenon. But it is fair to say Alberta is driving it.”
He adds, “Like the answer to everything. It’s complicated. Alberta’s not uniformly angry and moving in the direction of sovereignty. There are pockets here and there . . . Albertans are not uniformly against Ottawa. But broadly we are. Alberta is in many respects the leading jurisdiction of the Western cause if we can call it that — being the wealthiest and certainly the largest of the Prairie provinces and gaining on B.C. overall.
“Manitoba is a very split province. Rural Manitoba culturally and politically is extraordinarily similar to rural Alberta but politically and culturally Winnipeg is quite different than Calgary. So there is no uniformity on this.”
If Wexit has not entrenched itself in Manitoba now, certainly parts of the province clearly shares the same sense of hopelessness and alienation with the rest of the West.
In a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau after the election, Bill Campbell, president of the Keystone Agricultural Producers of Manitoba, wrote: “Since the election has concluded, we have heard a great deal from some Western Canadian politicians about separation from the rest of Canada given the lack of Western Canadian voices in your government. These discussions do not serve the best interest of our country and are not discussions Manitobans support. We do, however, have the need to hear from our federal government on the issues that we encounter every day.”
In an interview while he was moving some cattle, Campbell says there is much concern in rural Manitoba on where agriculture fits in all of Canada’s scheme. In some ways, he says, there is a feeling of hopelessness. Even though Manitobans express their concerns nothing seems to even grab the prime minister’s attention.
“There’s a lot of concerns, a lot of worry about what’s going to happen. I don’t think it is as strong an alienation as the other two provinces (Alberta and Saskatchewan) but in rural Manitoba there’s quite a concern about where things are going to go,” said Campbell.
“We certainly don’t want to be ignored in our conversations and we certainly are aware of what appears to be favouritism with regards to certain issues and our issues are not necessarily addressed or even talked about. There is no active Wexit part here. But the coffee shop talk and the conversations are that you can only tolerate so much and then you need to do something. As far as actively, it’s more conversations and frustration — there’s a large element of frustration here that we’re being ignored.”
The October federal election results were clear in their sentiment towards the Liberals. All 14 seats in Saskatchewan went to the Conservative Party. All but one of the 34 seats in Alberta followed the Tory tide in the Prairies. That one lone seat went to the NDP. And pockets of southwest Manitoba and the Eastern side of British Columbia, bordering the Alberta border, were also Tory blue.
Eric Wall, who has been involved in setting up Wexit Saskatchewan, says over 2,000 kilometres of Western Canada did not vote a single Liberal MP in the federal election yet once again that part of the country is faced with another four years of a Liberal government.
“We’re trapped in this Confederation,” he says. “If we don’t have a voice, then what do we truly have? We can’t set the direction for our future and the future of our children.”
Lori Williams, a political scientist with Mount Royal University in Calgary, says Western alienation has been a phenomenon in Western Canada pretty much as long as the Prairies and British Columbia have been a part of Canada.
“It’s been a longstanding sense that the West is contributing more to Confederation than it’s getting in return. That they are sort of outnumbered and drowned out in political matters. The elections are decided before a single vote is counted west of Ontario sometimes and all of that lends itself to a sense of not having the power to ensure that we have fair treatment within Confederation,” says Williams.
“We saw the Western Canada Concept coming up historically. We’ve seen the Reform Party. And it’s not an accident these have come up in Alberta but it’s not Alberta alone that is the seat of this. Certainly Saskatchewan and Alberta have very similar concerns. Some are shared by people in Manitoba. Some are also shared by people in British Columbia. For that matter, a lot of people in the Maritimes feel similarly.”
Williams says Alberta has been the loudest voice over the years from Premier Peter Lougheed days to today with Premier Jason Kenney. Preston Manning, the leader of the old Reform Party, was also a prominent spokesman for the Western cause. The Alberta roots may leave the impression in other parts of Canada, particularly Ontario and Quebec, that the sentiment doesn’t go beyond that province’s borders.
“But the reality is that there are some issues that are shared by Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia or some combinations of those provinces depending on what the issue is,” she says.

 

[captain morgan]

Hey Hoid read this article it relays Western anxiety pretty well

'Everyone’s angry': Why you're wrong if you think Wexit is just 'an Alberta thing'

Better yet Hoid read the entire article below

Curious Cdn is gonna be awfully busy hanging all of the mutineers


I hope that he's smart enough to limber-up and do all the requisite stretching exercises beforehand... Wouldn't want to pull a muscle or get all cramped-up (other than menstrual I guess)

 

[Cannuck]

Curious Cdn is gonna be awfully busy hanging all of the mutineers

Not likely. There's enough of us here in Alberta for that job in the unlikely event it ever came to that

 

[captain morgan]

Not likely. There's enough of us here in Alberta for that job in the unlikely event it ever came to that

This has nothing to do with auto erotic asphyxiation bud... I know you got all hot and bothered when you read about hangings, but you've wandered into the wrong forum again

 

[Cannuck]

Sorry for upsetting you but your dreams of separation are just that

 

[Curious Cdn]

Sorry for upsetting you but your dreams of separation are just that

The dreams of dull minds ...

 

[Serryah]

Fair question. I would expect it will go much like Quebec. There should be votes by small regions to see if they want to join in or not. Otherwise we have the same problem that we currently have where small areas with large populations override the large rural areas.. just a 10% general vote in favour of separation should be enough to make our overlords in Ontariowe pay attention and change their attitude..

So do you mean that the whole exit thing is a sham to get Ottawa to pay attention to you and change their attitude?


That's all it'd take for the west to be 'okay' again?



Interesting.

For others though who are more serious, if the vote goes as you say and the West votes out, what should happen then? Does Canada negotiate or do we cut services instantly?


Because I feel about this as I feel about it if Quebec was doing the same: you want out, everything's cut the moment you decide out. Everything Federal stops and terms are negotiated after that cut. So no more Federal funding for anything, no more CPP for people, no more external help from the Feds in case of disaster, no more money flowing to the province for services, no more RCMP, no more open border with the rest of Canada... you wanted out, you got out.



That's what the West wants, right?

 

[Curious Cdn]

So do you mean that the whole exit thing is a sham to get Ottawa to pay attention to you and change their attitude?
That's all it'd take for the west to be 'okay' again?
Interesting.
For others though who are more serious, if the vote goes as you say and the West votes out, what should happen then? Does Canada negotiate or do we cut services instantly?
Because I feel about this as I feel about it if Quebec was doing the same: you want out, everything's cut the moment you decide out. Everything Federal stops and terms are negotiated after that cut. So no more Federal funding for anything, no more CPP for people, no more external help from the Feds in case of disaster, no more money flowing to the province for services, no more RCMP, no more open border with the rest of Canada... you wanted out, you got out.
That's what the West wants, right?

As would be the case with a separated Quebec, the separate West would be a truncated strip two hundred miles wide after the First Nations declare that they have no territorial agreements or interest in the new entity. Canada would back them The UN would back them. The rootin'-tootin' gun slingin' Albertans won't have any allies in that fight. (A separate West does nothing for the Americans and they will stop it if a drop of "their" oil heads to China.)

 

[pgs]

As would be the case with a separated Quebec, the separate West would be a truncated strip two hundred miles wide after the First Nations declare that they have no territorial agreements or interest in the new entity. Canada would back them The UN would back them. The rootin'-tootin' gun slingin' Albertans won't have any allies in that fight. (A separate West does nothing for the Americans and they will stop it if a drop of "their" oil heads to China.)

You know nothing .

 

[captain morgan]

So do you mean that the whole exit thing is a sham to get Ottawa to pay attention to you and change their attitude?

No

That's all it'd take for the west to be 'okay' again?

Far too late for that

Interesting.

Not really

For others though who are more serious, if the vote goes as you say and the West votes out, what should happen then? Does Canada negotiate or do we cut services instantly?

Because I feel about this as I feel about it if Quebec was doing the same: you want out, everything's cut the moment you decide out. Everything Federal stops and terms are negotiated after that cut. So no more Federal funding for anything, no more CPP for people, no more external help from the Feds in case of disaster, no more money flowing to the province for services, no more RCMP, no more open border with the rest of Canada... you wanted out, you got out.

Funny comment... I don't know if you mean cutting services to Eastern Canada as much of the cash for Fed services in that region originates from Western Canada... Or do you mean that the Feds cut services to Western Canada and the West finances these services via the multiplicity of Fed taxes that will NOT be sent to Ottawa?

Interesting conundrum, ain't it?

That's what the West wants, right?

At one point, the mantra was "The West Wants In", now we're of the mind that "The West Wants Out"