The US' greatest gift to Canada?

[Bar Sinister]

They were bled smashed and conquered totally. The victors perspective of history is crap, it is always crap. Both nations were reduced to slavery for the empire, both were recreated as firewalls against communism, one for Europe and one for Asia. They remain locked into that paradigm.

Okinawa, airbases, naval instalations, and troops all well within easy reach of the spoils of war. And by the way if the many bits of pre attack intelligence available to President Rosenfelt had been passed on to Pearl Command the Japanese fleet could have been sunk to a man before even one yankee had to die. War has been the best investment for at least five thousand years. All those souls at Pearl invested by their own government just to make war.

It's always flowers and candy with you ain't it. We both live in the same world but that is not at all apparent. I fear you have mistaken the dung for the rose.

You have an interesting but mistaken view of history. So far as the European Recovery Program (also known as the Marshall Plan) is concerned you are partly correct. Rebuilding Western Europe was seen a a bulwark against communism. There was similar thinking in terms of Japan. However, it was the way it was done that was most interesting. The US could simply have established non-democratic US puppet governments in both Germany and Japan. It chose instead to encourage the development of democracies. It succeeded so well in Germany that the present day German state is probably more democratic than the United States. So far as Japan is concerned the US replaced a warlike regime with one that is currently so pacifistic that rarely sends even peacekeeping forces overseas. The gracious manner in which the US treated a completely devastated and defeated enemy is without precedent in history.

I assume in your second paragraph your are referring to F. D. Roosevelt. The conspiracy rumour that he allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor is completely unproven historically. No one has been able to provide a shred of evidence that this was the case. You are also in error in believing that the US had military superiority in the Pacific in 1941. In fact the Japanese fleet, army, and air force greatly outnumbered the US forces in the Pacific and held that advantage even after the Battle of Midway. It was not until 1943 that US manufacturing capacity and its greater supplies of manpower overcame Japan's initial advantage.

 

[CDNBear]

The greatest gift is their drug trends that are eventually adopted by junkies up here....could there possibly be anything left after oxycontin? I think they done out and out did theyselves this time.

Ya, but we export some seriously good dope from BC. So we're even.

But hey, why not blame someone else for the weakness of some people. Nothing like removing personal accountability and responsibility.

They were bled smashed and conquered totally. The victors perspective of history is crap, it is always crap. Both nations were reduced to slavery for the empire, both were recreated as firewalls against communism, one for Europe and one for Asia. They remain locked into that paradigm.

While Japan flies labourers from South America to do the bulk of manufacturing.

But hey, lets not let facts get in the way of anything now.

Okinawa, airbases, naval instalations, and troops all well within easy reach of the spoils of war. And by the way if the many bits of pre attack intelligence available to President Rosenfelt had been passed on to Pearl Command the Japanese fleet could have been sunk to a man before even one yankee had to die. War has been the best investment for at least five thousand years. All those souls at Pearl invested by their own government just to make war.

Do you have some facts to back that mental midgitry up?

It's always flowers and candy with you ain't it. We both live in the same world but that is not at all apparent. I fear you have mistaken the dung for the rose.

TP does a good job of taking care of that.

Since you have never, to my knowledge, stitched more than a single sentence together I hardly think you're empowered to evaluate high brow literature such as I routinely regurgitate.

Again TP does a good job with that.

I see nothing wrong with "occupation" describing this. Anywhere there is a military base.

Oh brother.

You have an interesting but mistaken view of history. So far as the European Recovery Program (also known as the Marshall Plan) is concerned you are partly correct. Rebuilding Western Europe was seen a a bulwark against communism. There was similar thinking in terms of Japan. However, it was the way it was done that was most interesting. The US could simply have established non-democratic US puppet governments in both Germany and Japan. It chose instead to encourage the development of democracies. It succeeded so well in Germany that the present day German state is probably more democratic than the United States. So far as Japan is concerned the US replaced a warlike regime with one that is currently so pacifistic that rarely sends even peacekeeping forces overseas. The gracious manner in which the US treated a completely devastated and defeated enemy is without precedent in history.

I assume in your second paragraph your are referring to F. D. Roosevelt. The conspiracy rumour that he allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor is completely unproven historically. No one has been able to provide a shred of evidence that this was the case. You are also in error in believing that the US had military superiority in the Pacific in 1941. In fact the Japanese fleet, army, and air force greatly outnumbered the US forces in the Pacific and held that advantage even after the Battle of Midway. It was not until 1943 that US manufacturing capacity and its greater supplies of manpower overcame Japan's initial advantage.

Stop confusing the issue with documented fact.

 

[Said1]

Ya, but we export some seriously good dope from BC. So we're even.

But hey, why not blame someone else for the weakness of some people. Nothing like removing personal accountability and responsibility..

Take a joke, scrooge. :lol:

 

[petros]

"The US' greatest gift to Canada?"

Oranges, porn and bombs.

Ya, but we export some seriously good dope from BC. So we're even.

Pfffb...there is more and better dope from other provinces than BC. The 80's ended a loooooong time ago and so did the BC myth.

 

[darkbeaver]

You have an interesting but mistaken view of history. So far as the European Recovery Program (also known as the Marshall Plan) is concerned you are partly correct. Rebuilding Western Europe was seen a a bulwark against communism. There was similar thinking in terms of Japan. However, it was the way it was done that was most interesting. The US could simply have established non-democratic US puppet governments in both Germany and Japan. It chose instead to encourage the development of democracies. It succeeded so well in Germany that the present day German state is probably more democratic than the United States. So far as Japan is concerned the US replaced a warlike regime with one that is currently so pacifistic that rarely sends even peacekeeping forces overseas. The gracious manner in which the US treated a completely devastated and defeated enemy is without precedent in history.

I assume in your second paragraph your are referring to F. D. Roosevelt. The conspiracy rumour that he allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor is completely unproven historically. No one has been able to provide a shred of evidence that this was the case. You are also in error in believing that the US had military superiority in the Pacific in 1941. In fact the Japanese fleet, army, and air force greatly outnumbered the US forces in the Pacific and held that advantage even after the Battle of Midway. It was not until 1943 that US manufacturing capacity and its greater supplies of manpower overcame Japan's initial advantage.

What rumour, it's a matter of congressional record. PEARL HARBOR - MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

 

[Walter]

A peaceful border, and great cross-border shopping.

 

[ironsides]

What rumour, it's a matter of congressional record. PEARL HARBOR - MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

No conspiracy, the most important thing was that we saved our carriers no matter what the myth's said we could have done. Dumb luck?

 

[petros]

There is a huge deficit in the bullsh*t to dumb luck ratio.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

No conspiracy, the most important thing was that we saved our carriers no matter what the myth's said we could have done. Dumb luck?

No, poor Japanese intelligence to some extent, and some Japanese tactical errors. The carriers were away on the day of the attack on Pearl Harbor, which they either didn't know or failed to appreciate the significance of, and they failed to destroy the tank farm and the submarine pens, they went after the big ships. The strategic consequences of that became plain after the Coral Sea and Midway, where they also made some serious tactical errors, primarily by underestimating American willingness to engage in a fight to the death.

The Coral Sea was a tactical victory for the Japanese, but a serious strategic failure: it stopped the invasion of Port Moresby, and prevented Japan from isolating Australia and extending its defensive perimeter. Midway was a total tactical and strategic Japanese failure. There was undeniably some luck involved in the timing of American dive bombers and torpedo planes arriving over the Japanese carriers when they were at their most vulnerable, with no fighter cover and planes rearming and refuelling on deck, but until that American strike force was in the air, the Japanese commanders believed there were no American carriers in the vicinity. They didn't know their codes had been broken and American forces would be waiting to ambush them. Faulty intelligence, faulty reconnaissance, and underestimating the enemy again, they lost badly and they deserved to, and that was the turning point. The loss of four heavy carriers and the fleet air arm was the end of Japanese superiority in the Pacific.

Hmmm... well, got a little carried away there, but military history is one of my hobbies and I can seldom resist the temptation to explain something I think is important. Wars I think are won by the side that makes the fewest mistakes, and attacking Pearl Harbor was one of the biggest mistakes anybody's ever made. Attacking somebody with twice your population and five times your industrial capacity is a really bad idea.

 

[Bar Sinister]

What rumour, it's a matter of congressional record. PEARL HARBOR - MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

Quoting a source from a conspiracy theory site is not evidence. I stand by my original statement until you provide me with some actual historical evidence from a reliable source. The fact is that the historical record clearly shows that the US could have reacted to the Japanese attack had the military personnel at Pearl Harbor not been asleep at the switch and had the US military reacted properly to the numerous warning signs. There is no evidence that those who discovered the Japanese mini-sub or noted the approach of Japanese aircraft were in any way told not to report their discovery. Nor is there any evidence that information from US intelligence was deliberately ignored.

So far as the US carriers are concerned, one was delayed at sea by a storm and the others were delivering aircraft to shore up US defences in preparation for a possible war with Japan. No matter how much you believe in a conspiracy it is vary hard to manipulate the weather.

Finally, I note you have not attempted to challenge me over the military balance in the Pacific; probably because the numbers there are irrefutable.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Quoting a source from a conspiracy theory site is not evidence.

Yeah, that's the major weakness of the Internet. Anyone can find a site to cite in support of any crackpot idea at all, it seems there's no claim so dumb that nobody will believe it, and uncritical thinkers are easily led astray. Good on you for sticking to higher standards.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Hmmm... well, got a little carried away there, but military history is one of my hobbies and I can seldom resist the temptation to explain something I think is important.

You too, eh? My history library beats that of most public libraries.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Yep, me too, and mine too. Think maybe we might be twins separated at birth? Same last name...

 

[CDNBear]

I thought you two were husband and wife for a while, lol...

 

[YukonJack]

With all the anti-Americanism lately, I'd decided to create this thread to look at what the US has given Canada.

What would you say is the US' greatest gift to Canada?

Personally, I'd say, at least on the legal front, the US Bill of Rights along with President Franklin Roosevelt's 'Four Freedoms' speech. Sure the US Bill of Rights does not have any legal standing in Canada. However, it, along with other national bills of rights, did influence the drafting of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which in turn influenced the drafting of multiple national bills of rights, including our own Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

President Franklin Roosevel, (especially through his 'four Freedoms' speech) and his wife Eleanor Roosevelt were also instrumental in promoting the development of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We can also take pride in the fact that a Canadian, John Peters Humphry, was the Declaration's principle drafter. Sure it's also had influences from the Bill of Rights 1689, the Declaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen, and the Code Napoleon among others, but there is no denying that the US Bill of Rights was also among them, and that roosevelt's Four Freedoms' speech was instrumental in the promotion of such a declaration. Had it not been for these two gifts from the US, our own Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms could very well have looked different today.

What would you say is the US' greatest gift to Canada?

FDR obviously forgot the FIFTH freedom: the freedom from Communism. No surprise there, he enthusiastically endorsed "Uncle Joe" Stalin in everything that bastard did.

America's greatest gift to Canada or to the whole world, in fact is FDR's legacy of 45 years of cold war. I mean, how else the NDP, the Unions and all the anti-religious cabals could have come to be if it wasn't for the false promises of Communism, promoted by FDR?

 

[Cliffy]

The NDP is not communist, unions were around long before FDR and free speech is not exactly a trait tolerated by communist regimes.

 

[TenPenny]

I'm thinking that Lady Gaga has to be tops on that list.

 

[taxslave]

Even if it were from Al Gore, is he not an American?

According to YJ one must be a card carrying member of the republican party to be an American. Anyone else is a subversive and a threat to national security.(theirs, not ours)

 

[CUBert]

We have more to thank England for our "human rights" than the U.S ..

 

[YukonJack]

According to YJ one must be a card carrying member of the republican party to be an American. Anyone else is a subversive and a threat to national security.(theirs, not ours)

Since I am a kind, gentle and compassionate person, I will not make an announcement as to what party should someone who makes a silly post like that might belong to, card carrying or otherwise.

Does "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" ring a bell?